Winnipeg | University of Manitoba | Southwood Circle

[plrh]

Phase 1A riverbank stabilization, sewer, water and roads are out for tender now. It's 10 lots, about 1-1.5 acres each. The work will likely be finished by the summer.
https://southwoodcircle.com/curent-lots/

[Highwayman]

Originally Posted by Kris22

Ya I think the biggest shame of the whole thing is having a suburban campus so far from existing urban neighbourhoods. I always wished the U of M had located itself in Norwood Flats, a perfect sized loop in the river right outside downtown.

Uofm was downtown already. Right in memorial park. Norwooy flats is way to small to for the UofM aside from the fact it was already full of houses when they moved it. It was mainly an agrit university aswell so being in the countryside at the time made sense.

[WinCitySparky]

^The class war rages on

[thebasketballgeek]

Repeat after me everyone. Not all high density development needs to be in the city centre.

And either I hope y’all didn’t forget about the Blue Line because believe it or not university students can and will go DT. I was a student just last year living in the ghastly Waverley West and still went to DT a bunch with my homies because of how convenient the Blue Line is. I know professors who commute from Downtown to U of M. It’s also got the best pedestrian focused infrastructure in the city with the raised crossings, the ridiculous amount of multi-use paths, and of course the pedestrian mall at Curry Place.

We have suburbs that aren’t walkable and a development like this won’t only make the U of M more walkable, but by extension nearby neighborhoods like Waverley Heights, Montcalm, Fort Richmond, and Riel (once the Rapid Transit bridge to St. Vital is constructed) will become more walkable as well just from new amenities and public realm improvements. It also will help fill some of those massive surface lots occupying Pembina as seen by the rapid densification of the corridor.

Hell even living in Waverley West for a decade the Bison at Superstore + the amenities at U of M and the best AT infrastructure in the city made it pretty easy for me to not have to own a car tbh.

A lot of people in this forum (predominantly the inner city residents here go figure) remain skeptical but I am very optimistic about this project. It’s the textbook definition of transit oriented development.

[ColdRain&Snow]

I'm very excited for this development. It will take awhile and will ultimately look quite different than the renderings, but the fundamentals are promising.

As other people have pointed out, the plan is to house about 20,000 new residents, not 60,000. The article says 60,000 people will be around the U of M campus everyday, so about 20,000 people living there + 30,000 students + 10,000 staff/SmartPark employees.

For people concerned about traffic, this development will create less traffic than a new development on the edge of the city, such as Waverly West. The 2016 Census says in the census tract of River-Osborne (Eastern part of Osborne Village), only 42% of people commute by car. That number is about 95% in Island Lakes. If a new neighbourhood of 20,000 people were to be built on the edge of the city, then you could expect about double the number of new cars added to the road compared to the proposed development at Southwood Circle.

https://legacy.winnipeg.ca/census/2016/

Lastly, there's many other benefits from infill projects like this such as reduced greenhouse gas emissions (compared to new greenfield development), more tax revenue for the city, more transit ridership (again, more money for the city because people pay to ride the bus but our roads are all toll free), and less farmland being destroyed.

[Biff]

They look to award the 10 lots to developers shortly.

[FactaNV]

Originally Posted by Biff

They look to award the 10 lots to developers shortly.

Is this a good thing or just a smart start? How much can realistically be done on lots those size?

[anthonyk]

Originally Posted by FactaNV

Is this a good thing or just a smart start? How much can realistically be done on lots those size?

It really depends on how tall they are willing/allowing to build. The Arc on Pembina has a lot area of 1.28 acres for reference.

[thebasketballgeek]

Originally Posted by anthonyk

It really depend on how tall they are willing/allowing to build. The Arc on Pembina has a lot area of 1.28 acres for reference.

The height limit for the development is 250 feet, so they can build up to roughly 25 floors. Since it’s a TOD they are also going to be quite lax on parking requirements.

It’s going to be one of the densest parts of the city if they’re building to their intended vision.

[Biff]

UM Properties would like to see all the buildings in the 15 to 25 storey range.

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by Biff

UM Properties would like to see all the buildings in the 15 to 25 storey range.

That would make this development collossal! As long as the design quality is decent, that would be fine.

Although it seems like a lot, I think if we just step back and look at the amount of development that has occurred in the area in the last 15 years, you can easily see how the proposed scale makes a good deal of sense. Just in the past 5 years we have two 16 floor student residences being built off campus. Shows me that there's still a ton of demand. Hope that the university can see this done well, it could really make Winnipeg feel like a big city if it gets built to scale and with good quality.

[Winnipegger]

Originally Posted by Biff

UM Properties would like to see all the buildings in the 15 to 25 storey range.

UM properties must be out of their mind, unless they want the full build out to take 150 years. 15 stories would be what, 150 units per building? Since 2010, the entire Fort Gary area - which includes Bridgwater/Waverley West in the CMHC statistics - has seen 3,035 rental units constructed since 2010, or 233 per year.

The main driver behind rental unit construction in this area has been international student growth at the UofM which has and will continue to level off unless the UofM can significantly increase teaching capacity which means more academic staff and buildings, which they don't exactly have the budget for.

So:
A) where will the demand for multiple 15 storey buildings adjacent to campus come from if international student enrollment is leveling off (Winnipeggers continue to mostly live in their parents basement when going to UofM); and
B) if they built even one 15 storey building every 5 years, it would absorb over 12% of the demand for rentals in that entire geography of the city, which again includes the rapidly growing area of Waverley West which is still growing, also with lots of rentals.

I'd love to see the UofM's math on this one. I'm guessing we will see a modest development or two on this land in short order, then crickets for several years or decades just like the Smart Park... unless this development somehow reallocates rental unit construction from other parts of Winnipeg (i.e. downtown) to the UofM.

[thebasketballgeek]

Originally Posted by Winnipegger

UM properties must be out of their mind, unless they want the full build out to take 150 years. 15 stories would be what, 150 units per building? Since 2010, the entire Fort Gary area - which includes Bridgwater/Waverley West in the CMHC statistics - has seen 3,035 rental units constructed since 2010, or 233 per year.

The main driver behind rental unit construction in this area has been international student growth at the UofM which has and will continue to level off unless the UofM can significantly increase teaching capacity which means more academic staff and buildings, which they don't exactly have the budget for.

So:
A) where will the demand for multiple 15 storey buildings adjacent to campus come from if international student enrollment is leveling off (Winnipeggers continue to mostly live in their parents basement when going to UofM); and
B) if they built even one 15 storey building every 5 years, it would absorb over 12% of the demand for rentals in that entire geography of the city, which again includes the rapidly growing area of Waverley West which is still growing, also with lots of rentals.

I'd love to see the UofM's math on this one. I'm guessing we will see a modest development or two on this land in short order, then crickets for several years or decades just like the Smart Park... unless this development somehow reallocates rental unit construction from other parts of Winnipeg (i.e. downtown) to the UofM.

If Winnipeg is growing at 30k per year like it currently is for the foreseeable future that would do the trick in regards to demand. Also, the development is not only aimed at international students, but also recent graduates who would like to move out of their parents basement and stay in the area. There’s students from outside Winnipeg who need accomodation as the number of people from towns like Winkler, Steinbach, and Brandon increase as students look for undergraduate opportunities.

Also, let’s not forget that Manitoba’s housing supply per capita is actually lower then the ROC and we all know how bad the housing crisis is for the rest of the country. Canada’s housing supply per capita is in the ballpark of 425 units/1k residents while Manitoba is at a 408 units/1k residents. Just to reach the Canadian average Manitoba would have to build an additional 23,000 units without population growth. Nevermind the fact the G7 average for housing is 480 units/1k residents. To even dream of reaching the G7 average the province would have to build nearly 80k units without considering population growth. So of course most of these units will be built in Winnipeg.

There’s plenty of demand elasticity for developments like this to be feasible, and with developments also occurring at Polo Park and the Forks in the not so distant future this could be the tip of the iceberg to what could be intense densification in Winnipeg’s mixed use corridors.

[FactaNV]

Originally Posted by Winnipegger

UM properties must be out of their mind, unless they want the full build out to take 150 years. 15 stories would be what, 150 units per building? Since 2010, the entire Fort Gary area - which includes Bridgwater/Waverley West in the CMHC statistics - has seen 3,035 rental units constructed since 2010, or 233 per year.

The main driver behind rental unit construction in this area has been international student growth at the UofM which has and will continue to level off unless the UofM can significantly increase teaching capacity which means more academic staff and buildings, which they don't exactly have the budget for.

So:
A) where will the demand for multiple 15 storey buildings adjacent to campus come from if international student enrollment is leveling off (Winnipeggers continue to mostly live in their parents basement when going to UofM); and
B) if they built even one 15 storey building every 5 years, it would absorb over 12% of the demand for rentals in that entire geography of the city, which again includes the rapidly growing area of Waverley West which is still growing, also with lots of rentals.

I'd love to see the UofM's math on this one. I'm guessing we will see a modest development or two on this land in short order, then crickets for several years or decades just like the Smart Park... unless this development somehow reallocates rental unit construction from other parts of Winnipeg (i.e. downtown) to the UofM.

Build it and they will come. If I can live in Charleswood or at the University in a beautiful new mixed use neighbourhood with restaurants, bars and amenities right there, screw Charleswood. The University is just as safe if not safer.

[Biff]

Originally Posted by Winnipegger

UM properties must be out of their mind, unless they want the full build out to take 150 years. 15 stories would be what, 150 units per building? Since 2010, the entire Fort Gary area - which includes Bridgwater/Waverley West in the CMHC statistics - has seen 3,035 rental units constructed since 2010, or 233 per year.

The main driver behind rental unit construction in this area has been international student growth at the UofM which has and will continue to level off unless the UofM can significantly increase teaching capacity which means more academic staff and buildings, which they don't exactly have the budget for.

So:
A) where will the demand for multiple 15 storey buildings adjacent to campus come from if international student enrollment is leveling off (Winnipeggers continue to mostly live in their parents basement when going to UofM); and
B) if they built even one 15 storey building every 5 years, it would absorb over 12% of the demand for rentals in that entire geography of the city, which again includes the rapidly growing area of Waverley West which is still growing, also with lots of rentals.

I'd love to see the UofM's math on this one. I'm guessing we will see a modest development or two on this land in short order, then crickets for several years or decades just like the Smart Park... unless this development somehow reallocates rental unit construction from other parts of Winnipeg (i.e. downtown) to the UofM.

The first phase is expected to be 15 to 25 storey buildings. The future phases will be lower storey buildings.

[trueviking]

They will likely get a reality check when they go out to market. I could see a few high-rises over the years, but it's unlikely the market will support anything close to their dream.

[ColdRain&Snow]

Honestly, just build a mixed-use neighbourhood of 5-over-1's. Here's an example from Minneapolis. I agree that 15-25 storys is not realistic.

[thebasketballgeek]

Originally Posted by ColdRain&Snow

Honestly, just build a mixed-use neighbourhood of 5-over-1's. Here's an example from Minneapolis. I agree that 15-25 storys is not realistic.

I see your point but the Google street view showing 0 pedestrians on the street isn’t helping the case for 5 over 1s.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by ColdRain&Snow

Honestly, just build a mixed-use neighbourhood of 5-over-1's. Here's an example from Minneapolis. I agree that 15-25 storys is not realistic.

totally agree....and that's likely what they will get. It could still be awesome....maybe more awesome.

[optimusREIM]

Playing armchair quarterback is easy, if they succeed in pulling off their vision, then all the better, if it ends up scaled back, that's also fine, so long as it doesn't turn into one giant dollorama strip mall