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  #1  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2022, 10:22 PM
JMKeynes JMKeynes is offline
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Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
There will be a redevelopment of the site, they’ve always said with or without the combined site. It could even be a supertall, but that’s not a big concern here. It’s not as if the city is lacking in supertall development.

Anyway, this rendering shows a tower only on the Vornado site.



I always assumed that that also involved Rudin's adjacent site. I never looked close enough to see that it's still there in that rendering.
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  #2  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2022, 11:02 PM
BK1985 BK1985 is online now
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I always assumed that that also involved Rudin's adjacent site. I never looked close enough to see that it's still there in that rendering.
I believe I mentioned it a while back when the rendering was first dropped but no one listens to me. Lol
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Old Posted Jan 5, 2022, 1:09 AM
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Good news. The NY Post, as usual, screwed up the details. This lease has nothing to do with 350 Park Ave, or the adjacent midblock companion tower.

The Morgan Stanley lease is in Park Avenue Plaza, owned by Fisher Brothers, and located across 52nd Street. Park Avenue Plaza is a 1980's-era trophy tower that will probably never be redeveloped.

So the 350 Park Ave. assemblage remains, either using the smaller site, or the expanded site. And the fact that Morgan Stanley is taking a big chunk of short-term space means that the likelihood of Morgan Stanley anchoring a future new tower is probable, perhaps likely.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...d&cmpId=google

https://therealdeal.com/2022/01/04/m...-avenue-plaza/
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  #4  
Old Posted Jan 5, 2022, 2:03 AM
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Good news. The NY Post, as usual, screwed up the details. This lease has nothing to do with 350 Park Ave, or the adjacent midblock companion tower.

The Morgan Stanley lease is in Park Avenue Plaza, owned by Fisher Brothers, and located across 52nd Street. Park Avenue Plaza is a 1980's-era trophy tower that will probably never be redeveloped.

So the 350 Park Ave. assemblage remains, either using the smaller site, or the expanded site. And the fact that Morgan Stanley is taking a big chunk of short-term space means that the likelihood of Morgan Stanley anchoring a future new tower is probable, perhaps likely.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...d&cmpId=google

https://therealdeal.com/2022/01/04/m...-avenue-plaza/

They have offices in both buildings. But sloppy media (Bloomberg article btw).
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Old Posted Jan 5, 2022, 3:02 AM
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Crains NY confirming the Morgan Stanley lease is in Park Avenue Plaza, on north end of the block, so not relevant to 350 Park, on opposite side of street:

Morgan Stanley bets on city with lease for BlackRock offices
https://www.crainsnewyork.com/commer...ckrock-offices
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  #6  
Old Posted Jan 5, 2022, 4:38 AM
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Crains NY confirming the Morgan Stanley lease is in Park Avenue Plaza, on north end of the block
That’s what we’re saying. It’s not the consolidated site.
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  #7  
Old Posted Jan 5, 2022, 1:29 PM
JMKeynes JMKeynes is offline
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MS was looking for at least 1m sf. Therefore, this lease doesn’t completely meet their needs. It would be nice if they commit to anchoring a new tower at 350 Park.

Does anyone know how empty 350 Park is?

I wonder if any large tenants vacated it. Vornado's website only lists two small companies as tenants.

https://www.vno.com/office/property/...311665/landing

P.S.: Is anyone as shocked as I am that this nearby piece of junk and the adjacent parking garage have not been replaced by a 1,200’+ condo?


Last edited by JMKeynes; Jan 5, 2022 at 2:22 PM.
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  #8  
Old Posted Jan 5, 2022, 7:02 PM
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Hopefully a height increase is in the cards. 1350 is so 2010’s
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  #9  
Old Posted Jan 5, 2022, 10:14 PM
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Hopefully a height increase is in the cards. 1350 is so 2010’s

The design itself has probably changed since we first saw it. I kind of like the base though. If only I could see an actual rendering of 270 Park to compare. There are similar elements to both.
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  #10  
Old Posted Jan 6, 2022, 1:38 AM
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Never liked the stacked trapezoid design or the shifted core. Good riddance if it's no longer current.
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  #11  
Old Posted Jan 6, 2022, 1:42 AM
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Never liked the stacked trapezoid design or the shifted core. Good riddance if it's no longer current.
I disagree, I loved that design. But I doubt it's current anyway, or anything that's released for a while will be.
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  #12  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2022, 1:16 AM
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Never liked the stacked trapezoid design or the shifted core. Good riddance if it's no longer current.
Agreed! Same!
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hmmm....
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  #13  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2022, 1:28 AM
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Agreed! Same!
I would be leery if it was built as is. I suspect that the spires would be value-engineered out if it was constructed, as well as the braces, much as it was for 3 WTC.
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  #14  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2022, 1:34 AM
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I would be leery if it was built as is. I suspect that the spires would be value-engineered out if it was constructed, as well as the braces, much as it was for 3 WTC.
I think that's an apples to oranges comparison. 3 WTC is part of a complex with many different moving parts and funding vehicles whereas 350 would be a stand alone development that isnt veiled with the competing interests of many different groups. By your logic, you would leery of every single proposed building that isnt a basic box.
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  #15  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2022, 5:47 PM
DCReid DCReid is offline
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I think that's an apples to oranges comparison. 3 WTC is part of a complex with many different moving parts and funding vehicles whereas 350 would be a stand alone development that isnt veiled with the competing interests of many different groups. By your logic, you would leery of every single proposed building that isnt a basic box.
Not really. It seems that developers may change their proposals in many instances. They could change the height, such as One Vanderbilt and 1 and 2 Manhattan Sq towers near the Farley Station. Or they sometimes change the design - Gehry was supposed to be wavy on all sides and that was changed. Spires and even braces can be perceived as 'vanity' and developers can sometimes eliminate them to hold down the cost of building. I think they were eliminated from 3 WTC to hold down the cost.
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  #16  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2022, 3:10 PM
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https://therealdeal.com/2022/03/25/b...expansion/amp/

Blackstone again weighing Manhattan HQ move, expansion





TRD STAFF
MAR 25, 2022


Quote:
Blackstone is reportedly getting restless at its 345 Park Avenue office once again, eyeing options for an expansion or move.

The private equity firm is seeking 1.5 million square feet of office space, people familiar with the matter told Bloomberg. The company is weighing options that include a move to another building in the city, or redeveloping a building to create the space.

Blackstone isn’t shutting the door on 345 Park. Bloomberg reported the firm may expand its presence at the Rudin Management building, where it has operated for more than three decades. The building is slightly bigger than 1.8 million square feet, so expanding Blackstone’s presence to fit its ambitions would be difficult with other tenants in place.
Quote:
Last year, Blackstone signed a deal to expand at the office by 80,000 square feet, bringing its total at 345 Park to 720,000 square feet. The firm also extended its lease for an additional year, through 2028.

But Blackstone has threatened to move before. The firm was reported in 2020 to be considering options for a new headquarters as large as 1 million square feet. Blackstone reportedly asked a handful of landlords to submit proposals for potential headquarters in Midtown and the Far West Side.

Among the sites under consideration at the time was a supertall office tower on Park Avenue proposed by Rudin and Vornado Realty Trust. The developers floated the idea of developing separately owned properties into a 1,450-foot-tall, 1.68 million-square-foot tower at 350 Park Avenue.
Quote:
Morgan Stanley’s recent move for Manhattan office space offers context for the size of Blackstone’s reported hunt. The investment bank recently agreed to one of the biggest leases of the pandemic, poised to move into Park Avenue Plaza next year. That lease encompassed roughly 400,000 square feet, barely a quarter of what Blackstone is reportedly looking for.


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ttan-expansion

Blackstone Hunts for Office Space in Major Manhattan Expansion


ByNatalie Wong
March 24, 2022


Quote:
The New York-based private equity firm is hunting for roughly 1.5 million square feet (140,000 square meters) of space as it considers relocating from its longtime headquarters on Park Avenue, according to people familiar with the matter.

As it explores its options, Blackstone is looking at sites across Manhattan and could opt to redevelop a building given how much space it needs. The firm may also end up expanding at 345 Park, one of the people said. The building, owned by Rudin Management Co., has housed the firm more than 30 years.
Quote:
… a handful of major finance and tech firms have been seeking space in New York. Ken Griffin’s Citadel has been looking at additional offices in Manhattan to accommodate his firm’s growing roster of employees in the region, while Morgan Stanley signed one of the city’s largest leases since the pandemic started.

Blackstone is looking for a significant amount of space. One Vanderbilt, the new skyscraper across from Grand Central Terminal, spans 1.7 million square feet, while Goldman Sachs Group Inc.’s headquarters building downtown is more than 2 million square feet.

Blackstone has roughly 1.1 million square feet of offices in Manhattan. The Real Deal reported in July 2020 that the company was looking for additional space. About a year ago, the firm signed a short-term lease extension to expand at 345 Park. The firm also has offices at 601 Lexington Ave.
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Last edited by NYguy; Mar 25, 2022 at 4:28 PM.
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  #17  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2022, 12:24 AM
JMKeynes JMKeynes is offline
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Like 350 Park, I think that 15 Penn looks great.

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  #18  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2022, 3:16 PM
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It's a giant filing cabinet. No amount of trees is going to make this look good. There is no elegance. They never show the northern exposure, which is a giant blank wall. I really hope this gets a significant redesign before they start going vertical. I'm probably hoping against hope here.
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  #19  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2022, 3:31 PM
JMKeynes JMKeynes is offline
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Originally Posted by BuildThemTaller View Post
It's a giant filing cabinet. No amount of trees is going to make this look good. There is no elegance. They never show the northern exposure, which is a giant blank wall. I really hope this gets a significant redesign before they start going vertical. I'm probably hoping against hope here.
Vornado plans to develop the block just to the north of this with a tower that’s almost as tall, so any blank wall will be obscured. Further, we have no idea what Foster has planned for the north facade.
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  #20  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2022, 5:49 PM
BK1985 BK1985 is online now
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Originally Posted by BuildThemTaller View Post
It's a giant filing cabinet. No amount of trees is going to make this look good. There is no elegance. They never show the northern exposure, which is a giant blank wall. I really hope this gets a significant redesign before they start going vertical. I'm probably hoping against hope here.
I know its incredibly off topic to discuss 15 Penn here but the one rendering that gave us a peek around the corner of the northern façade did appear to have some glazing with a visible elevator bank, so my hope is that the majority of the northern façade is done like that.
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