Winnipeg | True North Square | U/C

[CoryB]

It isn't just me that has been hoping the LC would have related items like mix, ice, etc. which you commonly use with alcohol to better make it a one stop shop. You might not need 50,000 to pull it off but it is worth noting the 15,000 sq ft flagship at Grant Park does not have the bottle and cork wine section or the expanded product offerings. Those would need extra space. If they planned to expand their class based offerings that too would bump space up.

I honestly believe there was more of a plan in place than is being portrayed by the media but it might have lacked a detailed cost-benefit analysis to determine that it would make money.

Edit: As a point of reference though, a large US multi-location alcohol retailer lists their largest store as being 12,000 sq ft putting it in line with the Grant Park store. Wine and Beyond in Edmonton seems to be western Canada's largest at 20,000 sq ft, LCBO seems to have a 31,000 sq ft store and DaveCo in Denver holds the Guinness World Record as the largest liquor store at just over 100,000 sq ft.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by CoryB

I honestly believe there was more of a plan in place than is being portrayed by the media but it might have lacked a detailed cost-benefit analysis to determine that it would make money.

I would have a hard time believing there wasn't a plan in place. But since it's politically expedient for the new government and new CEO to throw the old regime under the bus without explaining the whole story, that's what we're getting.

What's irritating is that the Tories will probably now make the situation worse by incurring who knows what kinds of additional costs to back out of the two MLLC Graham Ave projects (Medical Arts Bldg and TN Square).

[Jeff]

Well then, if they were gonna make a statement they might as well have tried to compete with DaveCO at least!

[BAKGUY]

RE : Flagship Liquor Store...@ TNS
Well, Ron Schuller is a crybaby and does not even live within Winnipeg city limits.
He stirred up a hornets nest and did not check facts before he spoke yet once again.
These non Winnipeg residents annoy me making comments abut downtown when they do not live there nor in Winnipeg proper.

[Wolf13]

Originally Posted by StNorberter

I'm not sure how you get to be MLL CEO when your background is in health services. But NDP made A LOT of appointments where clearly the only deciding factor was the person's ties to the party.

I'm not sure how great an idea of a 50,000 sq ft store downtown is, especially if they close ellice and citiplace. It will displace those crowds to that location and I'm not sure that's what TN wants.

Regardless of how bad this decision may or may not be, going public before talking to TN to resolve it is also a pretty bad business decision.

Among major corporations, some are simply great at leading companies. The CEO or Ford Motor Co could very well have been CEO of Hewlett Packard prior to that.

But that's among established elite in the coroporate world. Like, the geniuses.

Originally Posted by bomberjet

A CEO is a CEO is a CEO. They make business decisions based on numbers. If you are a CEO and want to be hands on, you're not a CEO. IMO anyways.

Just like salesmen. You make a pitch to sell a product, regardless if you believe in it or not.

Actually, this I disagree with. A CEO is a guy who knows how to steer the ship, crunch the numbers, read the market, and BAM when he shows up on the assembly line it turns out he can literally teach those on the product lines how to build better.

A true CEO is an absolute expert in his field, aiding in understanding market and numbers based decisions much better since they KNOW how the sausage gets made.

Contrary to my example above, Automotive execs typically come from within the ranks or from other automotive companies. In certain industries, the CEO skill set carry-over alone is not enough. A car company needs a car guy.

Originally Posted by Ando

I love it when we have Skyscraper love matches.

Originally Posted by BAKGUY

RE : Flagship Liquor Store...@ TNS
Well, Ron Schuller is a crybaby and does not even live within Winnipeg city limits.
He stirred up a hornets nest and did not check facts before he spoke yet once again.
These non Winnipeg residents annoy me making comments abut downtown when they do not live there nor in Winnipeg proper.

Ehhh, I'm a fan of Ron. He's a pitbull, but he's a good guy. Don't always agree with him but he sticks to his guns, and he's actually a conservative, not a flaky convenient con.

Also, SO WHAT if he lives outside the city? He's with the provincial government! He happens to work downtown. Did we just get elitist about this?

I live juuuust outside the city limits. I work downtown. I can guarantee you that my work and my livelihood is infinitely more dependent on Winnipeg than my municipality.

Lol, "Winnipeg proper".

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by BAKGUY

RE : Flagship Liquor Store...@ TNS
Well, Ron Schuller is a crybaby and does not even live within Winnipeg city limits.
He stirred up a hornets nest and did not check facts before he spoke yet once again.
These non Winnipeg residents annoy me making comments abut downtown when they do not live there nor in Winnipeg proper.

I've met Ron and he's a stand-up guy, he used to live in Winnipeg and now he doesn't, big deal, he represents the riding of St. Paul which encompasses the RM's of East St. Paul, West St. Paul, and includes Oakbank, and Dugald. Why would he live in Winnipeg?

Schuler knows as much or more about Winnipeg and it's downtown than anyone on this forum!

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

I've met Ron and he's a stand-up guy, he used to live in Winnipeg and now he doesn't, big deal, he represents the riding of St. Paul which encompasses the RM's of East St. Paul, West St. Paul, and includes Oakbank, and Dugald. Why would he live in Winnipeg?

Schuler knows as much or more about Winnipeg and it's downtown than anyone on this forum!

He's the only student government type from my years at U of M that I can think of who actually ended up in a political career. He was actually one of the more tolerable ones (along with me, of course, although I was quite marginal to the whole operation).

[Ando]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

I've met Ron and he's a stand-up guy, he used to live in Winnipeg and now he doesn't, big deal, he represents the riding of St. Paul which encompasses the RM's of East St. Paul, West St. Paul, and includes Oakbank, and Dugald. Why would he live in Winnipeg?

Schuler knows as much or more about Winnipeg and it's downtown than anyone on this forum!

You really are hilarious.

[Wolf13]

Originally Posted by Ando

see Dan Lett's column and my post in the construction thread - there was a "robust" analysis and business plan. Pallister and his Harperite aides made the whole thing up. But hey, Trump did the same thing in the states and he became president.

Originally Posted by Ando

You really are hilarious.

I dunno, everyone on this site who has met him seems to like him and has the impression he knows what he's doing.

But hey with the previous post quoted above I'm not sure we're surprised by your reaction

[Bdog]

Originally Posted by BAKGUY

RE : Flagship Liquor Store...@ TNS
Well, Ron Schuller is a crybaby and does not even live within Winnipeg city limits.
He stirred up a hornets nest and did not check facts before he spoke yet once again.
These non Winnipeg residents annoy me making comments abut downtown when they do not live there nor in Winnipeg proper.

The head of the Downtown Biz doesn't live in "Winnipeg proper" either...

[bomberjet]

Yes, CEO's are business people. They read numbers THAT ARE GIVEN TO THEM. You don't have to be an expert on computers to be CEO of a computer company. You have experts below you, advisors, who are experts. This is like the PM or president. They aren't experts in mlitary, finance, etc, etc. They have advisors who tell them things to make the best decision for the country. Everyone calls the Trump the next chief executive. That's how I see it anyways. Off topic here.

[Wolf13]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Yes, CEO's are business people. They read numbers THAT ARE GIVEN TO THEM. You don't have to be an expert on computers to be CEO of a computer company. You have experts below you, advisors, who are experts. This is like the PM or president. They aren't experts in mlitary, finance, etc, etc. They have advisors who tell them things to make the best decision for the country. Everyone calls the Trump the next chief executive. That's how I see it anyways. Off topic here.

Ok, I'll clear it up.

I know some CEOs. Good ones. They run their shit and they run it well. They have experts below them, but happen to know more than them. Yea, they don't know everything, because a lot of companies have legal and engineering departments and few CEOs have both of that... those may be some exceptions

CEOs right down to even low level managers all read numbers given to them. Something given to them does not preclude them from being experts who can grab the bull by the horns and make something happen.

However, in the very post you are responding to I mentioned that you don't have to be an expert of X to be CEO of Company X. I'm saying, however, that a lot of great CEOs know more about what their company is doing and are more hands on than you're alluding to.

That's been my experience for with the CEOs I know as well as those I've worked for.

[buzzg]

To me, I'd much rather see three 15,000 sq foot stores spread throughout downtown. We have to LCs downtown right now and for some reason they're 2 blocks away from each other... on the SAME STREET. Have one somewhere southwest, where South Broadway/Assiniboine residnents can have, maybe one somewhere on the east end of graham (or keep cityplace) and one in the Exchange. That being said, I don't really have too much of an issue with the TNS idea, although we really don't know much about it.

The biggest thing to me though still is that the Exchange desperately needs a liquor/wine store; this doesn't solve that issue. The Ellice one can serve West Exchange residents OK, but if you're living on Waterfront it YouCube, H20, or lots of the lofts in Northeast Exchange, it's a bit of a hike.

[bomberjet]

Clearly people are brainwashed that Pallister is somehow going to change the Province in a glorious manner. He's just a guy who is doing nothing but pointing fingers. He's not doing anything. It's like the Americans and Trump. Somehow oh glorious Donald will change America to "make it great again". When in reality, he's a boob who is now back tracking on all his little election comments. Because he never actually put anything of substance together, just throws stones at Clinton. Pallister is not much different, except for all the racist stuff. Just saying "loooook, look NDP."

Pallister will reign in wages and cut all the fat from government. Okay, that's a good start. I'll give him that.

[Wolf13]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Clearly people are brainwashed that Pallister is somehow going to change the Province in a glorious manner. He's just a guy who is doing nothing but pointing fingers. He's not doing anything. It's like the Americans and Trump. Somehow oh glorious Donald will change America to "make it great again". When in reality, he's a boob who is now back tracking on all his little election comments. Because he never actually put anything of substance together, just throws stones at Clinton. Pallister is not much different, except for all the racist stuff. Just saying "loooook, look NDP."

Pallister will reign in wages and cut all the fat from government. Okay, that's a good start. I'll give him that.

Seriously, what's with everyone being so butthurt by the mere presence of a conservative government.

I don't think anyone think Pallister is going to do much. He never said he would. It would be a major relief to simply stop doing NDP things, which is why he got elected, and which is what you haven't acknowledged in your posts: "looook NDP" is a valid argument when you truly don't want your province to do NDP stuff. Like raise PST, gas tax, property tax, etc..


Even Trump (I'm no trump fan). Everyone who voted for him didn't vote just for his promises or racism. They voted for him because they felt that modern American liberalism and social justice agendas not only ignored them, but talked down to them, lambasted them, insulted them. Simply because they were considered the status quo, and thus offendable/expendable, by mere colour of their skin, nature of their work, and location in America's heartland. Insult to injury, the american rural middle class was dying slowly while being lambasted, etc... That and Hillary was a hilariously bad candidate as well.

They all said: "Hold on, we can still vote on this. And I say we vote for the biggest middle finger we can find".

And they did.

Manitoba simply voted for the biggest non-dipper they could find. Why are we surprised?

[Urban recluse]

Pallister cannot magically transform Manitoba into the land of milk and honey. What I believe he will do is make the province more competitive, rein in spending, and simply manage the province's finances more responsibly.

[biguc]

Taking up this conversation here, instead of in Winnipeg Construction.

Originally Posted by Wolf13

I agree in principle.

Winnipeggers have grown accustomed to the idea that we can only help our economy by providing the labour for the government's initiatives. How limiting is that? How cute that we band together, hold hands and help the gov!

Now we NEED government help to grow our downtown because construction costs so greatly outweigh rent and demand for space. Here we are in a somewhat aided and abetted economic conundrum where unfortunately, now we need the government to give us grants for towers. Or any housing downtown.

We have been slow and steady for an eternity and that can be good. However we could have been a-little-slower-than-average and steady. We have resources and we have opportunity and the NDP has made sure to get in the way whenever possible.

We pay very high income taxes. Land transfer tax, gas tax, pst tax, all up. The payroll tax from the early 80s NDP still stings... "oh, you're making money, how about we introduce a tax" Our payroll tax is among the highest or the highest in the country (and I bemoan Pallister for not pledging to eliminate it), was introduced purely to cash in on private success, except it doesn't go away during harder times.

Any time Manitobans and our economy ever had any buying power it's been grabbed at. We've developed a nostalgia for our self-perceived (and totally fake) nobility to be humble, but all we've actually done is stayed average. If that. So whenever the government needed more money they said "you have plenty, and we need this money, to do work for you" and we sat and took it, because it's ok to take from the successful, because they (or we) have.

Lo and behold we are a have not province with a downtown office market decades behind others in Canada, needing cash from the government to do ANYTHING, and we're naive to the dependency the tax-and-spend dippers have created for us. Throw any $$ at any shiny promise, get elected, keep them dumb and fed.

And it sucks. Because Pallister is right in principle, but we need money to build our downtown now that we finally have momentum, for the first time in decades. Yet Pallister might be too stubborn to spend, like a parent unwilling to reward a spoiled and lazy child that finally stands a chance to make something of itself. I would fault him for that, but never for this hyper-taxed dependent attitude forged by the NDP, which is the ONE thing they've actually done effectively.

Pallister may not help our downtown unfortunately. I hope he does. However, if he gets the government out of Manitoba's way, that's not a bad thing.

Holy shit I'm cynical.

I generally agree with what you're saying. My main issue with Pallister's claim that "Manitobans need to build their own economy" is that many Manitobans work for the government, either directly or in crown corporations. Why are they precluded from building their own economy?

Trueviking made a pretty good case for how the MLCC opening this location at TNS was a case of Manitobans building their own economy. Just because the Manitobans doing so work for a crown corporation doesn't mean that what they're doing is a bad idea.

I'd love for the government to get out of our way. But I can't hold out much hope for that happening when they can't get out of their own way. Pallister is proving himself just as much of an economic meddler as Sellinger was, only from the opposite side of the same inept coin. If he's truly interested in getting out of our way and letting us build our own economy, maybe he should consider privatizing the LC, or at least butting out and minding his own business.

[Wolf13]

Originally Posted by biguc

Taking up this conversation here, instead of in Winnipeg Construction.




I generally agree with what you're saying. My main issue with Pallister's claim that "Manitobans need to build their own economy" is that many Manitobans work for the government, either directly or in crown corporations. Why are they precluded from building their own economy?

Trueviking made a pretty good case for how the MLCC opening this location at TNS was a case of Manitobans building their own economy. Just because the Manitobans doing so work for a crown corporation doesn't mean that what they're doing is a bad idea.

I'd love for the government to get out of our way. But I can't hold out much hope for that happening when they can't get out of their own way. Pallister is proving himself just as much of an economic meddler as Sellinger was, only from the opposite side of the same inept coin. If he's truly interested in getting out of our way and letting us build our own economy, maybe he should consider privatizing the LC, or at least butting out and minding his own business.

That further proves my point. How can we govern responsibly if we attach consistently and increasingly peoples' livelihoods and dependencies to an excess of government spending, employment, and occasionally waste? This is why I don't trust the NDP, because they will harbour votes with gov positions, which in principle is inefficient. The Liberals, you never know... whichever way the wind blows to keep them in power. Conservatives aren't immune to this behaviour but lean towards a free market, which isn't determined by them... so by default I trust them a bit more...

The MLCC wasn't Manitoba building their own economy, it was the gov demonstrating that even the mightiest of us need the gov to make any money. That's the problem. I agree we need the money, and I'm in favour of this, THIS time, but in principle, how did we ever let it get this far? Not even DAVID THOMSON get get a development going without MAJOR tif funding and MLCC propping up the lease schedule.

More specifically to the MLCC... who knows. This kind of an endeavor is beyond their scope. Sometimes that's bold and resembles a "necessary vision" or "change", or sometimes it's " do you have a damn clue what you're doing?" We won't know. I have my reservations with the NDP so I lean to the latter. So you and Viking may have a point, but so may I on this one. However, as I said, I'm a booze enthusiast and want our downtown to grow grow grow, so I want this to happen. I have told the few PC MLA's that I know that I want this to happen, not that it will help.

Furthermore, I'd be in favour of privatizing the MLCC. But he had to get elected. You can't go "full conservative" after 16 years NDP. I sympathize with that, and hope the coming years show more purpose.

[Biff]

I noticed yesterday that the elevator cores have now reached street level and should be above ground very soon.

[1ajs]

looking to be a steel frame building eh?