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  #1  
Old Posted May 30, 2023, 1:28 PM
MAC123 MAC123 is offline
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Maybe a redemption for the Hudson Spire? Lol. I know that was never a real proposal but it was a cool concept.
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  #2  
Old Posted May 30, 2023, 5:41 PM
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”It will be one of the most incredible tall buildings in New York City,” Blau gushed Friday.
I’m trying to analyze that statement, but I think the emphasis there was on an incredibly “tall” building, not just a standout design. It would be great to have both, but it doesn’t really take much to make a very tall building iconic with a little effort. I don’t want to speculate heightwise, but probably at leadt taller than 30 Hudson. It would be something that would be a destination unto itself. I’m ok with not too many details for now. Less for the NIMBYs to scream about.

There are about 6 and a half msf of development rights here, so depending on what those sizes are based on (a 3 msf zoned tower would end up in total above 3.5 msf), 3 msf for the hotel,casino, 2 msf for the office tower, and that leaves the rest for residential and the school.
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Old Posted May 31, 2023, 12:28 AM
Charmy2 Charmy2 is offline
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It would be insane if a building taller than 30 Hudson was built in phase 2. Is there anything going on with phase 2 now that 50 Hudson is done or not yet? Also what's the deal with Affirmation, I feel like I haven't heard that name since it went viral a few years ago.
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  #4  
Old Posted May 31, 2023, 2:32 AM
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It would be insane if a building taller than 30 Hudson was built in phase 2. Is there anything going on with phase 2 now that 50 Hudson is done or not yet? Also what's the deal with Affirmation, I feel like I haven't heard that name since it went viral a few years ago.
The casino bid is for phase 2. As for the Affirmation Tower, that development site is still on hold by the governor. Which brings up another elephant in the room. The full block site between the Javits and the casino/hotel proposal. That’s the other state owned site that will be subject to an RFP, once the governor realizes they still exist.



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Wynn plans US$10 billion New York City casino project


May 30, 2023


Quote:
Developer Related Companies said it will undertake a US$10 billion redevelopment of the entire western half of Hudson Yards for a new complex that is expected to feature a 250,000 sq.ft Wynn casino and a luxury hotel with 1,700 rooms within a “resort” tower.

The Wynn tower would house a casino offering craps, poker, roulette, as well as blackjack games in the skyscraper, along with high-end restaurants and shops.

It would be one of the most incredible tall buildings in New York City,” said Related CEO Jeff Blau to The Post. He also commented that there are plans to include a two million square foot office tower on 6.5 acres of undeveloped land at Hudson Yards.

I can see the movie now. “The Towering Casino”.
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  #5  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2023, 8:03 PM
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Wynn and Related proposed a 3 million square foot resort tower and a 2 million square foot office tower for Hudson Yards. What if the towers were like this? (WUHAN Fosun Bund Center Phase 2 - 480m+390m).

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  #6  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2023, 9:42 PM
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They most likely would want to keep the casino/resort and office components separate. These casinos are also supposed to contend with (or conform to) city zoning. So while there is no height limit, we’ll see how far the design envelope gets pushed.
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  #7  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2023, 1:03 PM
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https://therealdeal.com/new-york/?p=804785

Lander on Hudson Yards: “I got it wrong”
Comptroller admits development producing more tax revenue than expected






JUN 20, 2023
By Erik Engquist


Quote:
By Erik Engquist
Hudson Yards has for years been a punching bag for progressives. They called it a giveaway to Big Real Estate, a bad risk for taxpayers and a billionaires’ playground. When the pandemic set the project back, they called it karma.

So it was surprising, even shocking, when City Comptroller Brad Lander — successor to Bill de Blasio as the city’s top elected progressive — openly admitted the Bloomberg administration was right about Hudson Yards’ public financing scheme.

It’s not just working, but working better than anticipated — even after the development was slammed by Covid.

“One really interesting thing we looked at this month, in the Class A, in the trophy parts of the market, things are actually really rebounding well,” he said on NY1. “Hudson Yards is giving about $200 million more a year than we expected, and that’s going to grow to $300 million.”
Quote:
The interviewer, Errol Louis, a veteran of city politics and a former candidate himself, did not miss the significance of Lander’s statement. A couple of minutes later, he returned to the subject.

“You had been a skeptic of the financing of Hudson Yards,” Louis noted.

The city issued bonds to pay for billions of dollars’ worth of infrastructure, notably an extension of the No. 7 line, to make the massive development possible. Bondholders would be paid back by the resulting increase in property tax revenue, Doctoroff promised. If revenue fell short, city taxpayers would be on the hook.

Lander was one of the voices on the left who openly questioned the administration’s financial alchemy. But after looking at the numbers — which, as comptroller, is his job — he has come around. All the way around.
Quote:
”I own this,” Lander said. “You know, one thing you try to do in the comptroller’s office is collect the data and have it test your priors. In this case, I was a critic of the Bloomberg administration’s financing scenario. They basically used the city’s credit card to finance Hudson Yards and put the city at risk, and I and others raised concerns that it would expose the city.”

“As it has played out, Hudson Yards is financing that debt and now returning, again, a couple hundred million dollars more to the city than we expected,” the Park Slope Democrat said. “So this is one place I gotta say I got it wrong.”
Quote:
Subways, pedestrian improvements and parks are things that government is supposed to pay for. No one thinks of Central Park as a subsidy for Billionaires’ Row, Prospect Park as a handout for Brooklyn property owners or Grand Central Terminal as welfare for Midtown.

Another fact long forgotten is that the Related Companies only got to develop Hudson Yards because Tishman Speyer pulled out, deeming it too risky in the wake of the Financial Crisis. If Related got a “sweetheart deal,” it’s worth asking why a rival developer turned it down.

….. “The data has helped me see some changes there,” Lander said on NY1. “Still some questions about the architecture, I guess, but on the financing, at an important moment for the city, it’s making a big difference.”
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  #8  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2023, 4:10 PM
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The tax revenue will jump even more once the residential components are built out.
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  #9  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2023, 4:39 PM
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They get it wrong on a lot of things. The more development, the less opposition to things getting built, the more tax revenue. Density = more tax revenue... because... well... more people and businesses to pay... TAXES!

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  #10  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2023, 4:53 PM
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It's also more tax revenue per the size of infrastructure. That sidewalk and street are gonna be the same size regardless of what gets built there, whether it be 4 single family homes or a supertall.
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  #11  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2023, 7:14 PM
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I really want to see what Related's casino proposal looks like, and how it relates to the skyline...


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  #12  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2023, 7:17 PM
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I hope the main tower dwarfs 30 HY
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  #13  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2023, 3:16 PM
TREPYE TREPYE is offline
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Originally Posted by MAC123 View Post
I hope the main tower dwarfs 30 HY
YES.... as much as they tried, this "Signature Tower" is ok and not very remarkable. The topping is off and the asymmetry of it is kind of goofy. The overall slant of the tower is pretty neat though. 30 HY is more like a "Print Tower" rather than cursive, thats for sure.

And for Phase II.... LESS GLASS!

When Related touted out their masterplan visions for HY they were emphatic that the buildings were going to be a mixture of façade textures, not just glass.... at a glance when you look at the HY development it ended up looking like a glass blob emanating out of midtown, blocking the glory (and their respective texture) of the ESB and the Chrysler Building from the west side.

Last edited by TREPYE; Jul 6, 2023 at 3:49 PM.
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  #14  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2023, 1:09 AM
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A good angle...



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  #15  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2023, 2:08 AM
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https://www.ft.com/content/96b069a9-...c-6409574809ef

Jeff Blau rejects ‘office is dead’ claims by betting billions on new towers


Joshua Chaffin
JULY 2 2023


Quote:
The view from the observatory atop Manhattan’s Hudson Yards was clouded on a recent afternoon by smoke from distant wildfires in Canada. But that has not dimmed Jeff Blau’s outlook for the sprawling development or the high-end offices that are its speciality.

At a time when offices are dragging the commercial real estate sector into crisis, Blau, the chief executive of Related, one of the largest US developers, is planning to build 10 new towers in cities across the US and in London, an investment that will total an estimated $6.5bn.
Quote:
Blau believes there is a shortage of the most modern and lavishly equipped offices — buildings he now refers to as “double-A” or “lifestyle offices”. That conviction has arisen from the performance of Hudson Yards on the west side of Manhattan. 

“We’ve had some of our best leasing over the last 12 months in the middle of all this period of time when everyone says the ‘office is dead’ — except it’s not,” Blau said, noting that Related was securing rents on the upper floors of its newest tower, 50 Hudson Yards, in excess of $200 per sq ft. That is more than double the $95.53 average asking rent for a class A building in Midtown, according to Savills.
Quote:
Its confidence in offices is such that Related is also planning to eventually build a 2mn sq ft office tower on the as-yet-undeveloped west side of Hudson Yards. That site will also host a casino if a joint-bid with Wynn Resorts is selected for one of three forthcoming New York licences.

“Every landlord thinks they have an A building, right? But some of these A buildings are 50 years old. And even if they have been well taken care of over the term, they are not the same as the new buildings,” Blau said. “These buildings truly are differentiated in every which way.”

Those at Hudson Yards boast advanced air filtration and energy efficiency, and vast floor plates that can accommodate an entire firm on a single floor. Their ever-increasing amenities range from private cafeterias overseen by celebrity chefs to concierge medical clinics and, most recently, helicopter shuttle service to local airports.
Quote:
Related received further validation recently when Brad Lander, the New York City comptroller and a one-time Hudson Yards sceptic, noted the development was now delivering $200mn more in annual tax revenue than forecast — and growing. “So this is one place I gotta say I got it wrong,” Lander told Errol Louis on the Inside City Hall programme. (As for its architecture — slammed by many critics as soulless — there were still “some questions,” Lander noted).

Other developers are also betting on super offices. SL Green has reaped similar success at One Vanderbilt, near Grand Central Station, with some rents topping $300 per sq ft. Hines, its partner on that venture, is also convinced there is a shortage of top-quality office space. RXR, meanwhile, is soon to join the fray with 175 Park Avenue.
Quote:
The original plan was for Hudson Yards’ office towers to play a supporting role by attracting the affluent to its retail space and condominium towers. In the event, they have been its star performers. Three towers — 10, 30 and 55 Hudson Yards — are now 100 per cent leased. Some early tenants, such as Tapestry and BlackRock, were lured from Midtown with favourable deals, according to leasing experts. A fourth tower, 50 Hudson Yards, is nearly 90 per cent leased.
Quote:
As for conversions, office towers were simply not designed for residential use, he noted, making it expensive to repurpose them. Adding to the cost is the need to first empty them.

“They often don’t go to zero per cent occupancy. They go like 70, 60, 30 — and then the 30 never want to leave. And then you have to spend so much money to convert that it’s basically the cost of essentially building a new building,” Blau said. “And if that’s true, you should tear the building down and build a proper building.”
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  #16  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2023, 7:14 PM
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^ The problem with 30 Hudson is that it’s surrounded by so many tall towers, each of which could dominate many skylines. The result is a tower that looks like it’s just sticking its head above water. That’s why I hope the casino tower is more ambitious in terms of height. Hudson Yards needs a signature tower that stamfs out from the others. Maybe Affirmation Tower will ne built. Maybe not. But the casino tower needs to be minimum 1,500 ft.
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  #17  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2023, 7:39 PM
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^ The problem with 30 Hudson is that it’s surrounded by so many tall towers, each of which could dominate many skylines. The result is a tower that looks like it’s just sticking its head above water. That’s why I hope the casino tower is more ambitious in terms of height. Hudson Yards needs a signature tower that stamfs out from the others. Maybe Affirmation Tower will ne built. Maybe not. But the casino tower needs to be minimum 1,500 ft.
I think the problem is too many fat and mostly squarish towers...let's hope if HY gets the casino, the tower is both tall and shapely...I hope they eventually deck over the Javits center and build, if they don't move it...
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  #18  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2023, 7:50 PM
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Originally Posted by DCReid View Post
I think the problem is too many fat and mostly squarish towers...
The biggest problem with those towers is that they’re all in the same height range. From a distance, HY looks like a mountain. But those large floorplates are exactly what the city had in mind, and what companies are looking for.


Quote:
Hudson Yards boast advanced air filtration and energy efficiency, and vast floor plates that can accommodate an entire firm on a single floor.

This is where the casino tower can give us something different.
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  #19  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2023, 8:38 PM
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^ The problem with 30 Hudson is that it’s surrounded by so many tall towers, each of which could dominate many skylines. The result is a tower that looks like it’s just sticking its head above water. That’s why I hope the casino tower is more ambitious in terms of height. Hudson Yards needs a signature tower that stamfs out from the others. Maybe Affirmation Tower will ne built. Maybe not. But the casino tower needs to be minimum 1,500 ft.
Good point.

30 HY is inundated by towers of not just similar blandness, and materials but not separated enough by height to more thoroughly appreciate its slanted profile. This monotony is how this complex fails as a "unified development."
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  #20  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2023, 10:52 PM
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To be fair to Related, they’ve only built half the complex, and can’t be responsible for surrounding developments like Manhattan West or the Spiral or even 3 Hudson (whenever it rises). But as the neighborhood is zoned for large towers, maybe they should have been more ambitious in terms of a signature tower.
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