Sports in Canadian culture

[esquire]

^ MISL sort of bridged the gap between the NASL and MLS. I don't think it was all that popular, though... maybe at its peak it was around where Arena Football is now? (Which is about right considering that both are basically gadget variations on the respective traditional outdoor sports.)

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ MISL sort of bridged the gap between the NASL and MLS. I don't think it was all that popular, though... maybe at its peak it was around where Arena Football is now? (Which is about right considering that both are basically gadget variations on the respective traditional outdoor sports.)

I think MISL got positive because it appeared to be viable at a time was on-field pro soccer was not.

It at least kept the pro soccer flame alive.

[Stryker]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ MISL sort of bridged the gap between the NASL and MLS. I don't think it was all that popular, though... maybe at its peak it was around where Arena Football is now? (Which is about right considering that both are basically gadget variations on the respective traditional outdoor sports.)

Indoor is totally different game, its like comparing Aussie rules football with gridiron. I doubt many major players would be able to truly crossover in either direction. Sadly indoor is a better game for American audiences, faster far more goals, much smaller pitch.

[esquire]

^ Leafs fans sure don't seem to have trouble getting jacked up for games against Ottawa or Montreal... why is it an issue when it comes to football?

[Stryker]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ Leafs fans sure don't seem to have trouble getting jacked up for games against Ottawa or Montreal... why is it an issue when it comes to football?

Minor league versus major league.

If the CFL was major league calibre, don't think for a second Toronto would be uninterested. But its clearly not, nor should it matter. Its a great regional league representing canada, and treat it as such and have regional representation.

Its like a short guy running around saying size don't matter while getting someone to feel his biceps.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by Stryker

Minor league versus major league.

If the CFL was major league calibre, don't think for a second Toronto would be uninterested. But its clearly not, nor should it matter. Its a great regional league representing canada, and treat it as such and have regional representation.

Its like a short guy running around saying size don't matter while getting someone to feel his biceps.

And why exactly is the CFL minor league? And why are Canadian cities not on your radar? Last time I checked watching sports was about watching sports, not watching random groups of athletes representing a city most of them aren't from. You should watch the Blue Jays instead of the Argonauts if you prefer baseball to football, not because they play American teams.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

And why exactly is the CFL minor league? And why are Canadian cities not on your radar? Last time I checked watching sports was about watching sports, not watching random groups of athletes representing a city most of them aren't from. You should watch the Blue Jays instead of the Argonauts if you prefer baseball to football, not because they play American teams.

Couldn't agree more. Toronto is detached from Canada in many ways. Many no little about the country beyond southern Ontario (and Montreal) while some think Toronto is too good for the likes of Winnipeg, Calgary, and God forbid Regina. You wouldn't see Paris, London, or New York turning their backs on their own country and its cultural institutions like that. They do the opposite actually. They act as the power base for their country in sports.

[Gerrard]

Originally Posted by isaidso

Couldn't agree more. Toronto is detached from Canada in many ways. Many no little about the country beyond southern Ontario (and Montreal) while some think Toronto is too good for the likes of Winnipeg, Calgary, and God forbid Regina. You wouldn't see Paris, London, or New York turning their backs on their own country and its cultural institutions like that. They do the opposite actually. They act as the power base for their country in sports.

You can't force people to like football in Toronto. Get over it. It has little to do with Torontonians rejecting their country WE JUST DON'T CARE ABOUT FOOTBALL.

The demographic isn't there. The rivalries don't exist. Montreal might still have a baseball team, if the Blue Jays and Expos played in the same division. But at the very least even in the absence of rivalries for the Blue Jays, people like baseball here -and they like it even more when the Blue Jays are winning. No one cares if the Argos win or lose.

The NFL gets brought up but it's a dream of developers not Torontonians. No one attends those games either. The NFL's popularity is based on gambling revenue. No one cares about the games here at all.

In Toronto there are a ton of LGBT sports leagues. Even the football league has less participation than the damned Rugby league.

Because Toronto, despite what history it may have with football had when its demographic was different now does not give a crap about the sport and hasn't for decades now. The league will go on with or without a team in Toronto. It managed for years without a Montreal team, it'll get over the lack of interest in Toronto too.


And honestly why should Torontonians need to apologize for having their own distinct likes and dislikes in this nation. Don't you guys constantly celebrate those "differences" of other places in this country?

Just accept that Toronto is a unique part of Canada and get over it.

Do you honestly think New York cares about some bumf*ck Kansas team or whatnot? They don't. I can't speak for London but having lived in NYC I can honestly tell you New Yorkers don't care one bit about maintaining some sort of national unity through sports or shared cultural institutions. They believe they are the USA period. Or something quite distinct and unconnected to it. You have heard the phrase "flyover" haven't you? It's not supposed to be flattering.

Torontonians don't treat the ROC with the same sort of pointed arrogance. We just don't think very much about it at all.

[Stryker]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

And why exactly is the CFL minor league? And why are Canadian cities not on your radar? Last time I checked watching sports was about watching sports, not watching random groups of athletes representing a city most of them aren't from. You should watch the Blue Jays instead of the Argonauts if you prefer baseball to football, not because they play American teams.

Salary caps that are one tenth of what a major sport team cap looks like, a handful of games that cant maintain the atmosphere of MLB.

People care about money when there spending 30-40 bucks a ticket.

Its this circular argument that the cfl presents, were major league yet we have none of the things associate with a major league.

Like seriously mlse could double the salaries of the entire CFL tomorrow on jump a whim.

Im sure the old stadium in Hamilton didn't help either, everything look bush league.


Be clear nobody cars about America teams, what people care about is 100 million dollar salaries when there being sold something as a major league. If the CFL had drastic Cap increase Im sure Toronto would be all over it.

Now if the CFL sold it as a local regional league like the CHL, things would be very different, civic rivalries would be huge.

Because right now the CFL is feels like a distorted chl, only theres one token team from Ontario, and one token teams from quebec.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Stryker

Salary caps that are one tenth of what a major sport team cap looks like, a handful of games that cant maintain the atmosphere of MLB.

People care about money when there spending 30-40 bucks a ticket.

Its this circular argument that the cfl presents, were major league yet we have none of the things associate with a major league.

Like seriously mlse could double the salaries of the entire CFL tomorrow on jump a whim.

Im sure the old stadium in Hamilton didn't help either, everything look bush league.


Be clear nobody cars about America teams, what people care about is 100 million dollar salaries when there being sold something as a major league. If the CFL had drastic Cap increase Im sure Toronto would be all over it.

Now if the CFL sold it as a local regional league like the CHL, things would be very different, civic rivalries would be huge.

Because right now the CFL is feels like a distorted chl, only theres one token team from Ontario, and one token teams from quebec.

The CFL actually has three teams in Ontario. More than in any other province in fact. Somehow I doubt that it's a token thing for them.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by Stryker

Salary caps that are one tenth of what a major sport team cap looks like, a handful of games that cant maintain the atmosphere of MLB.

People care about money when there spending 30-40 bucks a ticket.

Its this circular argument that the cfl presents, were major league yet we have none of the things associate with a major league.

Like seriously mlse could double the salaries of the entire CFL tomorrow on jump a whim.

Im sure the old stadium in Hamilton didn't help either, everything look bush league.


Be clear nobody cars about America teams, what people care about is 100 million dollar salaries when there being sold something as a major league. If the CFL had drastic Cap increase Im sure Toronto would be all over it.

Now if the CFL sold it as a local regional league like the CHL, things would be very different, civic rivalries would be huge.

Because right now the CFL is feels like a distorted chl, only theres one token team from Ontario, and one token teams from quebec.

So what you're telling me is that if the players made more money, then the league would more popular while everything else stays the same. I mean I understand that the majority of "sports fans" are bandwagoners (we had plenty of them during our Cup run here) you'd just think that in such an enormous city you'd find 30,000 people that actually just like watching good, quality football and don't care how much money the players make.

I just don't see how the CFL isn't major league. Very few leagues around the world pay multi million dollar salaries. It's really just the big 4 in North America and the European soccer leagues. Is Super Rugby minor league because the players make $70,000 a year? Ask anybody (maybe outside England and France) and they'll tell you it's the world's premier rugby competition. CFL salaries are the norm in very well supported, competitive leagues all over the world.

The CFL has a national and international TV contract, premier players and some of the highest attendance numbers for any sports league in the world. There is nothing minor league about it.

[Steveston]

Originally Posted by Stryker

Minor league versus major league.

If the CFL was major league calibre, don't think for a second Toronto would be uninterested. But its clearly not, nor should it matter. Its a great regional league representing canada, and treat it as such and have regional representation.

Its like a short guy running around saying size don't matter while getting someone to feel his biceps.

Isn't that a contradiction? It's a national league -- admittedly it would be better if Atlantic Canada were represented -- but it's definitely not a regional league. The OHL, WHL and QMJHL are regional leagues.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by Stryker

Minor league versus major league.

If the CFL was major league calibre, don't think for a second Toronto would be uninterested.

And there you have if folks! Some Torontonians care more about prestige than the actual sport. Americans don't think like that. If they did, UCLA, USC, Ohio State, Auburn, Florida State, Nebraska, Texas, Michigan, Penn State, etc. All these schools would see their fan base desert them. It's not the NFL after all!

That said, the idea that CFL players aren't worth the bother is off the mark and ridiculous. The worst team in CFL would cream any NCAA team. Americans support NCAA massively despite it being a few rungs down from the NFL talent wise. The CFL is Canada's football league and as Canada's largest city it should show leadership and champion it rather than crap all over it incessantly.

[Berklon]

I'm not sure why Toronto gets picked on when it appears Montreal and Vancouver have a similar issue. Those 2 cities aren't exactly packing the stands as I see the average attendance for both are about 20,000 and 24,000 respectively this year.

These are highly populated cities and their attendance isn't that much better than Torontos.
I think part of the problem is that with bigger cities there's a lot more to do than take in a sporting event, and when they do want to dedicate some of their time to sports - they'd rather just "go big or go home" (so to speak).

[elly63]

The Great Canadian Ratings Report: CFL duds don’t scare off viewers
Chris Zelkovich Eh Game July 22/2014

If there are any questions as to why TSN forked over $40 million a year for CFL television rights, they were answered over the weekend.

If the past week is any indication, the CFL is approaching bulletproof status as a TV property in Canada. After all, if ratings can hold in the middle of summer with a product that has been -- and I'm being kind here -- terrible, then this is one solid property.

The first month of the 2014 season has given viewers every reason to go searching for Saved By The Bell reruns or the daily Duck Dynasty marathon. With few notable exceptions, the games have been painfully long, filled with penalties and either one-sided or just plain boring.

Imagine how confused ESPN viewers might be, wondering why the exciting football they'd been promised hasn't arrived yet.

Take a look at the most recent week. The showdown between two of the league's undefeated teams ended with Edmonton beating Winnipeg 26-3, a score that flattered the losers. The only competitive contest of the week saw the Ottawa RedBlacks end more than three hours of tedium by kicking their sixth field goal of the game to beat Toronto 18-17. It was a game that featured a lot more penalty flags than great plays and all of one touchdown.

One might argue that Friday's Hamilton-Calgary game was competitive, except for the fact that neither team appeared willing to compete. The Stampeders won this snooze-fest 10-7 as Hamilton failed to execute a last-minute field goal. Speaking of execution, it might have been a good idea.

There was one other CFL game, but it's best forgotten. The B.C. Lions won 41-5 over a Montreal team that apparently didn't get the memo about a players' strike being called off.

Yet despite this string of awful football, the viewers haven't turned off. The Edmonton-Winnipeg game on Thursday drew an average audience of 759,000 -- 56,000 more than last year's regular-season average of 703,000.

Considering that numbers tend to rise in the second half of the season, that's impressive.

The Montreal-B.C. game Saturday evening topped the weekend sports ratings with an average of 717,000 viewers, beating out the Toronto Blue Jays and the British Open. Assuming that most viewers had turned off their TVs by the fourth quarter -- unless they had either sadistic or masochistic tendencies -- it wouldn't be a stretch to guess that close to a million people had originally tuned in.

So, assuming that the football will get better, things bode well for the rest of the season. If football fans can endure this early season abuse, a string of typically thrilling CFL games should see TSN top last year's audience numbers.

Here are the most-watched sports events on English-language television for the past weekend, according to BBM Canada overnight ratings:

1. CFL, Alouettes at Lions, Saturday, TSN: 717,000
2. CFL, Ticats at Stampeders, Friday, TSN: 692,000
3. CFL, Argos at RedBlacks, Friday, TSN: 673,000
4. MLB, Blue Jays at Rangers, Sunday, Sportsnet One/360: 520,000
5. MLB, Blue Jays at Rangers, Friday, Sportsnet: 518,000
6. Golf, British Open final round, Sunday, TSN: 511,000
7. MLB, Blue Jays at Rangers, Saturday, Sportsnet One/360: 375,000
8. Golf, British Open third round, Saturday, TSN: 251,000
9. Auto racing, Toronto Indy, Sunday, Sportsnet: 227,000
10. Golf, British Open second round, Friday, TSN: 220,000
11. MLS, Whitecaps at Real Salt Lake, Saturday, TSN: 176,000
12. MLB, Dodgers at Cardinals, Sunday, TSN: 161,000
13. MLB, Royals at Red Sox, Saturday, Sportsnet: 121,000
14. Auto racing, F1 German Grand Prix, Sunday, TSN2: 119,000
15. Auto racing, Toronto Indy, Saturday, Sportsnet: 110,000

GlobalTV news story about return of REDBLACKS to Ottawa

[esquire]

Originally Posted by isaidso

Interesting. I've always viewed the name 'Argonauts' as one of the best in north American sport. Perhaps it's just not been marketed properly. It's in the same vein as USC Trojans, Michigan State Spartans, but more unique/unusual imo. They also have the added tie in to Argonaut Rowing, the history behind all that, and 'Argonaut Blue' inspiration for the Maple Leafs' colours.

I completely agree. Argonauts is definitely one of the best names around. It is steeped in tradition both in the Toronto sense and in the sense of classical mythology. The notion that the Argonauts name is a weak spot is complete nonsense IMO.

Originally Posted by isaidso

And there you have if folks! Some Torontonians care more about prestige than the actual sport. Americans don't think like that. If they did, UCLA, USC, Ohio State, Auburn, Florida State, Nebraska, Texas, Michigan, Penn State, etc. All these schools would see their fan base desert them. It's not the NFL after all!

Some of you rag on me for going on about Toronto and its failure to appreciate any sport that doesn't have the US seal of approval, but comments like Stryker's more or less confirm that that is very much the case.

It's funny/sad how the same Toronto fan who gets excited for a Leafs vs. Habs game and gets nostalgic about the Original Six days will all of a sudden turn up his nose at a game vs. the Alouettes and slam the CFL for having nine teams.

Originally Posted by Berklon

I'm not sure why Toronto gets picked on when it appears Montreal and Vancouver have a similar issue. Those 2 cities aren't exactly packing the stands as I see the average attendance for both are about 20,000 and 24,000 respectively this year.

These are highly populated cities and their attendance isn't that much better than Torontos.
I think part of the problem is that with bigger cities there's a lot more to do than take in a sporting event, and when they do want to dedicate some of their time to sports - they'd rather just "go big or go home" (so to speak).

Montreal and BC aren't perfect, but the difference is that the Als and Lions have a prominent place in their local sports firmament, as compared to Toronto which seems to go out of its way to ignore the CFL. When there is a big game, the Als (playing at the Big O) and Lions sometimes draw upwards of 50,000 fans... when was the last time that the Argos ever did that?

Originally Posted by elly63

Here are the most-watched sports events on English-language television for the past weekend, according to BBM Canada overnight ratings:

1. CFL, Alouettes at Lions, Saturday, TSN: 717,000
2. CFL, Ticats at Stampeders, Friday, TSN: 692,000
3. CFL, Argos at RedBlacks, Friday, TSN: 673,000
4. MLB, Blue Jays at Rangers, Sunday, Sportsnet One/360: 520,000
5. MLB, Blue Jays at Rangers, Friday, Sportsnet: 518,000
6. Golf, British Open final round, Sunday, TSN: 511,000
7. MLB, Blue Jays at Rangers, Saturday, Sportsnet One/360: 375,000
8. Golf, British Open third round, Saturday, TSN: 251,000
9. Auto racing, Toronto Indy, Sunday, Sportsnet: 227,000
10. Golf, British Open second round, Friday, TSN: 220,000
11. MLS, Whitecaps at Real Salt Lake, Saturday, TSN: 176,000
12. MLB, Dodgers at Cardinals, Sunday, TSN: 161,000
13. MLB, Royals at Red Sox, Saturday, Sportsnet: 121,000
14. Auto racing, F1 German Grand Prix, Sunday, TSN2: 119,000
15. Auto racing, Toronto Indy, Saturday, Sportsnet: 110,000

GlobalTV news story about return of REDBLACKS to Ottawa

For some reason the Star left out the top-rated game of the week from the list, being the Bombers vs. Eskimos. So there you have it, the supposedly "minor league" CFL once again sweeps the top of the sports ratings.

It's funny, because on the weekend I watching CBC News Network's morning show on Saturday and the only thing the sportscaster talked about was the British Open and not a word about the Redblacks' home debut... but from the looks of things the British Open probably had fewer viewers than the garbage-time portions of the CFL games when the outcomes were all decided.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Berklon

I'm not sure why Toronto gets picked on when it appears Montreal and Vancouver have a similar issue. Those 2 cities aren't exactly packing the stands as I see the average attendance for both are about 20,000 and 24,000 respectively this year.

These are highly populated cities and their attendance isn't that much better than Torontos.
I think part of the problem is that with bigger cities there's a lot more to do than take in a sporting event, and when they do want to dedicate some of their time to sports - they'd rather just "go big or go home" (so to speak).

Point taken, but I think there are several reasons why Toronto gets crap for this.

First of all, while CFL-hating pro-NFL people exist all across Canada, those in Toronto can be particularly defiant and even hostile. Not sure if this is simply part of the hubris that comes with being the biggest city in the country, but certainly in other parts of the country the people who simply prefer the NFL, tend to simply say they prefer the NFL and leave it at that. Just like I say I don't watch basketball. I don't bash the NBA. It's just not my bag.

I guess this is exacerbated by the fact that there is a disconnect between the expectations people have about TO being Canada's metropolis, and also what people in TO see as their role. People in TO do have a "Hey Canada! We're your metropolis!'' type of attitude towards the rest of the country, but don't seem to go very far with the two-way follow-through that usually goes along with that. An interesting aside is I've always noticed how NCAA football has a lot of visibility in NYC (Times Square, media, etc.) as a "national thing" even though its local presence in the city is basically nil.

Finally, the national anglo media is based in Toronto, not Vancouver and Montreal. So when a guy sitting at a desk in Toronto reads off every single NFL week 6 scores (with highlights of each one) before talking about the CFL playoffs, that irks people too.

[Gerrard]

Or maybe certain Canadians on this forum could just examine their own insecurities rather than toss around regional insults? Oh but not whining would be un-Canadian I suppose.

Toronto could BUY the next 10 Grey Cups and there'd still be lackluster interest in the sport. Again, it's the SPORT, not the league.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Gerrard

Or maybe certain Canadians on this forum could just examine their own insecurities rather than toss around regional insults? Oh but not whining would be un-Canadian I suppose.

Are the regional insults you threw around a few minutes ago included in the above post?

[Gerrard]

Originally Posted by esquire

Are the regional insults you threw around a few minutes ago included in the above post?

Wow you're a really sensitive guy if you think anything in my post above contained one regional insult.

List one please.