Where does the midwest begin and end? I have heard the following cities being called part of the Midwest by coastal types but am not sure if they know what they are talking about.
I have heard numerous people refer to Pittsburgh, Denver, Cleveland, Omaha, Salt Lake City and Buffalo as the "Midwest". Are any of those cites "midwest"?
What city does the midwest begin with and where does it end?
I don't consider Rust Belt cities like Detroit, Pittsburgh or Cincinnati Midwest, I consider it Great lakes or Rust Belt. Colorado, Utah, and Idaho are "Mountain West" sorts not midwest. Oklahoma, Kansas, Iowa, Nebraska, North Dakota, South Dakota, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, Missouri, and parts of Texas.
I think cities in the states of Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Michigan, Missouri, Iowa, and maybe Kentucky and Kansas are midwest cities. I would add Pittsburgh to the list. I think that Minnesota and Wisconsin are Upper Midwest.
I think cities in the states of Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Michigan, Missouri, Iowa, and maybe Kentucky and Kansas are midwest cities. I would add Pittsburgh to the list. I think that Minnesota and Wisconsin are Upper Midwest.
I've been on both coasts. From a coastal view, I'd say anything E of the Cascade/Sierras and W of the Appalachians is "Midwest".
That said, I now live in the Midwest (Central Illinois). I'd say the E border of the Midwest is somewhere in Ohio; the W border somewhere in Eastern Colorado; and the S border at about the MO-AR line, or else the Ohio River. I consider Cincinnati Eastern, but others would say it's Midwest, and a few say it's "The South".
I'd also say the Midwest extends up into Canada: Winnipeg, Regina, and so-forth.
I don't consider Denver Midwestern, but Seattleites might argue. After all, it's East of the Rockies. I consider places like Wilkes-Barre, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, etc. as Eastern, but from a Manhattanite they would probably consider it Midwest.
Although St. Louis is definitely Midwest, St. Louis seems to be quite Eastern. Baseball is big. There are row houses. There is lots of industry.
Gets a little muddy. Does a place like Wichita have the same Midwestern qualities as a place like Milwaukee?
The boundaries could arguably stretch from Kansas to Western Pennsylvania (Pittsburgh embodies certain characteristics of Midwestern cities), but nobody on SSP has ever agreed on regional boundaries/characteristics/qualities/etc., so its kinda pointless anyway.
Whenever this is brought up, it's always important to remind folks that the Midwest includes both the Great Lakes and the Great Plains; it spans both sides of the Mississippi. It includes a state as heavily industralized a Michigan, ot a state as heavily agricultural as Kansas. It spans the Old Northwest (Great Lakes) to the Old West (Great Plains); Ohio is just as "Midwest" as Nebraska and vice versa. Even then, not every part of these states are "Midwest" just as there are some "Midwest" portions of some states bordering the Midwest. The question of the definition of the Midwest is not an either/or proposition.
As for the examples of Pittsburgh, Denver, Cleveland, Omaha, Salt Lake City and Buffalo, I'd say that Pittsburgh is neither Midwestern in culture nor geography, Denver is practically at the foot of the Rockies, so geographically I'd give them to the Moutain West as I would culturally. Omaha is most definitely Midwestern in every since of the word. SLC, no way, and Buffalo is very similar in culture to every other city along the Great Lakes.
__________________ Where the trees are the right height
You won't find a Pittsburgher alive who considers his/her city "Midwest". It's usually used as a term of derision by Philadelphians who can't be troubled to travel west of Lancaster.
To me, the Midwest is mostly made up of areas in the US where most land is under cultivation without general irrigation. So, the NE boundary is Cleveland, down to Columbus, Dayton, Indianapolis, St. Louis, Kansas City, Lincoln, Bismarck, to the Canadian border. Areas in northern Wisconsin and Minnesota that are not agricultural are usually called "upper Midwest." I think the shared economic, cultural, political and linguistic (etc) characteristics of Midwest cities is drawn more from the land use, heavy ag industries, lack of broad natural spaces, German-Scandinavian immigration, and postindustrial landscapes. This area is defined by the Great Lakes, since those are the remnants of the glaciers that ground the Midwest like a rolling pin.
The South is the mountainous/hilly area south of this; the Plains extend to the Rockies/Intermountain West (with its own divisions); East coast is on the Appalachian fall line eastward; the South and the Appalachians share some characteristics into Southern PA. I dont know upstate NY at all to know what's going on there. Buffalo might also be called a Midwestern outpost, but Pittsburgh is the capital of Appalachia, and not Midwestern.
I've always thought of the Midwest as being the following:
Illinois
Iowa
Wisconsin
Minnesota
North Dakota
South Dakota
Northern half of Missouri
Nebraska
Kansas
Central Oklahoma
North Central Texas (e.g., DFW area)
It's not really very cut and dried, though, and certainly debatable.
Having lived briefly in Michigan, I think most Michiganders think of themselves as part of the "Great Lakes region". That's more important to them than being either Northeast or Midwest.
I've also lived in Kansas City, which is most definitely the Midwest. Their subregion is the Heartland, but everything about that Metro in character scope says Midwest.
Dallas is part of the South... not a part of the Midwest. It's still too rooted in southern culture to claim that. A stronger case can be made for Oklahoma IMO... I could see it being included in the Midwest. But Texas is much too large of a state to be counted in one region.
There used to be a concept of the mid-eastern states, usually Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, which had more attachment to the rolling hills country of the east than to the plains which characterize the true midwest. Illinois could be tossed in as well. Under this concept the true midwest begins near the Mississippi and extends as far west and south as there is profitably arable farmland. Then the high-plains (with their short growing seasons making them ranching country) and the Rockies. Social structures changed with each of these agricultural and economic structures, which in turn were climate driven.
Of course, the fringes of the Great Lakes constitute an altogether different, more industrialized zone. This would include Pittsburgh and most of northern Ohio, Indiana, etc.
Having lived briefly in Michigan, I think most Michiganders think of themselves as part of the "Great Lakes region". That's more important to them than being either Northeast or Midwest.
While being surrounded and isolated lakes will do that to you, I've yet to meet a Michigander that doesn't also consider his or her state to be a subset region of the Midwest. I'll just reiterate that like most any other region, this one has subregions. Just as the Northeast consists of the subregions of New England and the Mid-Atlantic (and then whatever you call Maryland, Delaware, West Virginia), or the South divided between Deep, Upper, etc...the Midwest has the Great Lakes and Great Plains.
While being surrounded and isolated lakes will do that to you, I've yet to meet a Michigander that doesn't also consider his or her state to be a subset region of the Midwest. I'll just reiterate that like most any other region, this one has subregions. Just as the Northeast consists of the subregions of New England and the Mid-Atlantic (and then whatever you call Maryland, Delaware, West Virginia), or the South divided between Deep, Upper, etc...the Midwest has the Great Lakes and Great Plains.
I lived in TC... they think differently than downstaters on many subjects. But I will agree, from a cultural perspective, Michigan identifies more with the Midwest than it would the East Coast. Though where I lived, they didn't refer to themselves as either.
BTW, the East region of the map is what I would refer to as the Great Lakes Region... the west would be the Central Plains.
BTW, the East region of the map is what I would refer to as the Great Lakes Region... the west would be the Central Plains.
I'd hope so, because that's what these subregions are known as, with Great Plains being more common than Central Plains, but can be used interchangeably.
__________________ Where the trees are the right height
Places like Denver, SLC, Dallas are part of Middle America, which some people might confuse as being the same as the Midwest, which is a region in Middle America. Basically, don't trust a Californian on any geography over 50 miles from the Pacific. They are good people, and I am friends with many, but they tend to blur everything between the coasts. Cleveland, Denver, whatever.
Well, the term "Middle America" is about as glossing over as any. That's not to mention that it's not a geographical concept, but a social one. It's exactly the kind of term someone on the coasts would use for anything 50 miles inland. lol
__________________ Where the trees are the right height
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