Canadian Foreign Policy & Affairs II

[O-tacular]

Yeah nothing is more shrug worthy than this hey?

(Warning*** graphic content)

https://www.instagram.com/lsarsour/reel/DBFQ2CnxejE/

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Probably Tik Tok.

Even Hamas’s health ministry reports 42k.

My god, the total death toll of direct and indirect deaths is so much higher now.

American Doctors, Nurses, healthcare workers that volunteered in Gaza hospitals stated their best estimate was 92,000+ back in July, and the early October estimate is now 118,900+.
https://www.gazahealthcareletters.or...ter-oct-2-2024

The Lancet gave ~186,000 as an estimate.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...169-3/fulltext

We won't know until the War is done. It's safe to say it's over 5% of the total prewar population of Gaza has died by now.

Israel/IDF has been reliant on AI to generate "targets" as quickly as possible.
One is called "Lavender" another called "The Gospel".
They even have one program referred to as "Daddy's home" to notify them when suspected militants return home, which results in the entire building getting bombed.

A great precedent for War where an algorithm essentially decides who lives and who dies

Israeli magazine +972

‘A mass assassination factory’: Inside Israel’s calculated bombing of Gaza
https://www.972mag.com/mass-assassin...-bombing-gaza/

‘Lavender’: The AI machine directing Israel’s bombing spree in Gaza
https://www.972mag.com/lavender-ai-israeli-army-gaza/

[lio45]

You can show me images of the aftermath of the March 1945 firebombing of Tokyo (charred civilians everywhere), and you’ll get the same answer from me, namely, “yeah, Pearl Harbor was a bad idea in retrospect”.

Whatever your link shows (I didn’t even bother clicking on it), is a direct and predictable consequence of Oct 7. When you decide to start a war, some people will die, and you’ll have their blood on your hands IMO. The only good lesson from all this is “don’t start new wars”.

[Acajack]

It's also rarely mentioned but another fact is there is a darned good chance the carnage would stop if Hamas released the over 100 Israeli hostages they are still holding after over a year.

[logan5]

Originally Posted by lio45

You can show me images of the aftermath of the March 1945 firebombing of Tokyo (charred civilians everywhere), and you’ll get the same answer from me, namely, “yeah, Pearl Harbor was a bad idea in retrospect”.

Whatever your link shows (I didn’t even bother clicking on it), is a direct and predictable consequence of Oct 7. When you decide to start a war, some people will die, and you’ll have their blood on your hands IMO. The only good lesson from all this is “don’t start new wars”.

You need to learn the history of Palestine and how Israel was created. The history of the West Bank and Gaza long before 10/7, because you look foolish saying this war started October 7.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by logan5

You need to learn the history of Palestine and how Israel was created. The history of the West Bank and Gaza long before 10/7, because you look foolish saying this war started October 7.

If you're so keen on giving history lessons, then surely you know the circumstances that led to Gaza and the West Bank coming under Israeli control?

[logan5]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It's also rarely mentioned but another fact is there is a darned good chance the carnage would stop if Hamas released the over 100 Israeli hostages they are still holding after over a year.

To be balanced, how many Palestinians are being held in Israeli prison, without any charges? Once again, long before 10/7. Israel has been brutalizing Palestinians for decades.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by lio45

I live in Canada, where genocide is just another day at the office. You’ll need something stronger than that to get more than a shrug from me.

Yes overusing the word has consequences.

[Wigs]

Everyone should watch this CBS Sunday Morning clip, to have an understanding from the words of American Doctors that volunteered at Gaza hospitals of just how horrific the situation in Gaza is, particularly affecting Palestinian children. They bear the worst of this war.

4 min clip
• Video Link

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Wigs

Everyone should watch this CBS Sunday Morning clip, to have an understanding from the words of American Doctors that volunteered at Gaza hospitals of just how horrific the situation in Gaza is, particularly affecting Palestinian children. They bear the worst of this war.

Yes war is hell. Egypt/Hamas could let them flee and the losses would be minimal though Hamas would have been wiped out in days so that wouldn't work. Ukraine (and Poland etc) didn't force civilians to stay in Bakmut or other towns flattened by Russia. Isreal has no other choice but to attack buildings that have civilians in them. That is clear. I also see that Hamas doesn't have another choice either. Nobody is giving them airplanes and tanks to have a fair fight (not that anyone should)

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It's also rarely mentioned but another fact is there is a darned good chance the carnage would stop if Hamas released the over 100 Israeli hostages they are still holding after over a year.

Not really. Netanyahu would likely find another excuse to extend the war that is keeping him out of prison. He just killed the head of Hamas. The man responsible for Oct 07th is dead. Is that enough? No.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by lio45

You can show me images of the aftermath of the March 1945 firebombing of Tokyo (charred civilians everywhere), and you’ll get the same answer from me, namely, “yeah, Pearl Harbor was a bad idea in retrospect”.

Whatever your link shows (I didn’t even bother clicking on it), is a direct and predictable consequence of Oct 7. When you decide to start a war, some people will die, and you’ll have their blood on your hands IMO. The only good lesson from all this is “don’t start new wars”.

Just an 18 yo programmer burning alive in a hospital bed with an IV in his arm after IDF bombed another hospital.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Yes war is hell. Egypt/Hamas could let them flee and the losses would be minimal though Hamas would have been wiped out in days so that wouldn't work. Ukraine (and Poland etc) didn't force civilians to stay in Bakmut or other towns flattened by Russia. Isreal has no other choice but to attack buildings that have civilians in them. That is clear. I also see that Hamas doesn't have another choice either. Nobody is giving them airplanes and tanks to have a fair fight (not that anyone should)

IDF is consistently operating in a reckless, lawless fashion where troops basically shoot anything that moves and bomb whole blocks because smart bombs are more expensive. IDF snipers are executing children while bombs full of shrapnel are lobbed into tent camps in a deliberate attempt to maim as many bystanders as possible. Israeli guards run torture camps where prisoners are raped and have their eardrums destroyed in ‘disco’ rooms where speakers blast until their ears bleed. The way they operate is anathema to NATO forces. I posted TWAK’s response to my question about whether they (Americans) shot children in Iraq. His response was that they weren’t even allowed to shoot at kids throwing rocks. So, yeah war is messy. But it doesn’t need to contravene Geneva conventions and treat the entire civilian population as hostile combatants.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by logan5

You need to learn the history of Palestine and how Israel was created. The history of the West Bank and Gaza long before 10/7, because you look foolish saying this war started October 7.

Sure, and WWII didn’t start in 1939, the context leading to it can be traced all the way back to the partition of Charlemagne’s empire by the Verdun Treaty in the year 843. Everything since then is somewhat continuous (WWII was the result of the outcome of WWI, etc.)

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by acottawa

We don’t do that with any other conflicts. Imagine if millions of descendants of Greeks or Armenians driven out of Turkey in the 1920s were still living in UN refugee camps? Imagine if Germans driven out of Poland in 1945 were still living in UN refugee camps?

Yes, the situation of the Palestinian "refugees" is unique. Some would by now be fourth-generation refugees, thanks to the generosity of the countries in which their ancestors took refuge.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Wigs

Everyone should watch this CBS Sunday Morning clip, to have an understanding from the words of American Doctors that volunteered at Gaza hospitals of just how horrific the situation in Gaza is, particularly affecting Palestinian children. They bear the worst of this war.

4 min clip
• Video Link

I don't think anyone disputes that conditions in Gaza are horrific. Hamas has much to answer for.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

IDF is consistently operating in a reckless, lawless fashion where troops basically shoot anything that moves and bomb whole blocks because smart bombs are more expensive. IDF snipers are executing children while bombs full of shrapnel are lobbed into tent camps in a deliberate attempt to maim as many bystanders as possible. Israeli guards run torture camps where prisoners are raped and have their eardrums destroyed in ‘disco’ rooms where speakers blast until their ears bleed. The way they operate is anathema to NATO forces. I posted TWAK’s response to my question about whether they (Americans) shot children in Iraq. His response was that they weren’t even allowed to shoot at kids throwing rocks. So, yeah war is messy. But it doesn’t need to contravene Geneva conventions and treat the entire civilian population as hostile combatants.

You mean the vaunted, highly trained and well equipped IDF has been operating so recklessly and without abandon and they still only managed to kill a few hundred people a day on average at the highest estimates over the course of an entire year? I think even the Ukrainian military has managed to kill more Russian soldiers than that.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by logan5

You need to learn the history of Palestine and how Israel was created. The history of the West Bank and Gaza long before 10/7, because you look foolish saying this war started October 7.

The United Nations voted overwhelmingly to create a quasi-federal system with a Palestinian, Jewish states out of the British mandate. The Arabs rejected the UN and instead attacked Israel. They lost this war and ended up with less territory. The Arabs attacked again in 1967 and lost more territory. The Arabs were offered well over 90% of the territory lost in 1967 for a Palestinian State and rejected this. Rejection of peace, starting a war and ending up worst off is more or less the permanent Palestinian policy.