Queen's Park Politics

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

The floor prices are far below the typical LCBO retail prices, though. They haven't kept up with inflation.

Yup. No retailer is going to be selling anywhere close to the floor price.

The real change is that up until now grocers had to match LCBO / Beer Store prices exactly. LCBO puts it on sale, grocers put it on sale. LCBO increases prices, grocers increase prices.

Now they can set whatever price they want, provided they still pay all applicable taxes and don't sell for less than the floor price.

This is a fundamental shift to how alcohol is sold in the province as it introduces price variability and competition. And is why Costco is entering the market - they have the ability to undercut the LCBO / Beer Store by some amount. Retailers are allowed to use beer as a loss-leader if they want. They can also charge more if they want, which is what convenience stores are doing.

[1overcosc]

Jeez, Ford seems to be going all out to pandering to the base. Definitely election season a'coming.

I don't think it will work, though. This isn't 1995. Right wing populism isn't about "them damn welfare junkies" anymore.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

typical response from a conservative. "Bootstraps!"

With his considerable bulk, I wonder how could douggie be a teetotaller and apparently, a vegetarian (or used to be?).

I've read that he doesn't drink alcohol and doesn't eat beef. But I've also read that he consumes a fair amount of fast food. I remember him thanking Tim Hortons during one of his Covid press conferences because they started using real eggs in their breakfast sandwiches.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Jeez, Ford seems to be going all out to pandering to the base. Definitely election season a'coming.

I don't think it will work, though. This isn't 1995. Right wing populism isn't about "them damn welfare junkies" anymore.

It was weird because he really did sound like Mike Harris. Ford sounded very out of touch because anyone who lives in a place with lots of addicts like I do knows that most of the addicts are not employable and refuse to get better or to get care. I have a PC MPP who is also a cabinet minister and he would never dare say anything like Ford.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Yup. No retailer is going to be selling anywhere close to the floor price.

The real change is that up until now grocers had to match LCBO / Beer Store prices exactly. LCBO puts it on sale, grocers put it on sale. LCBO increases prices, grocers increase prices.

Now they can set whatever price they want, provided they still pay all applicable taxes and don't sell for less than the floor price.

This is a fundamental shift to how alcohol is sold in the province as it introduces price variability and competition. And is why Costco is entering the market - they have the ability to undercut the LCBO / Beer Store by some amount. Retailers are allowed to use beer as a loss-leader if they want. They can also charge more if they want, which is what convenience stores are doing.

I'll have to see if I can find what the floor prices in Ontario are.

In Quebec it is fairly common to see grocery stores advertising that they are selling cases of popular brands of beer at the lowest price allowed by law. You see it by package size. And the percentage of alcohol also determines the price.

Here is a link to the Quebec floor prices: https://www.racj.gouv.qc.ca/fileadmi.../RACJ-1048.pdf


I think this is it for Ontario but it's priced by litre. https://www.ontario.ca/laws/regulation/r21750

[MolsonExport]

So Ford wants to build the world's longest and possibly widest (of length) automobile tunnel under the 401, from Brampton/Mississauga to the far end of Scarborough. Something like 50+ kms.

Anyone want to guess what this would cost? How long it would take? How it would be ineffective, given the incapacity of the off-ramp streets/avenues to absorb more traffic?



Ford vows to build traffic tunnel under Highway 401 across GTA

The Ministry of Transportation will look at the potential for a tunnel running from Brampton or Mississauga in the west to Scarborough or Markham in the east that connects to major roads along the way, Ford said. That's a distance of roughly 55 kilometres. The tunnel would not be tolled and would include public transit, according to the province.

The study will also estimate the total costs and timeframes associated with the tunnel, which would be one of the largest infrastructure projects in the world. Norway lists Europe's Lærdal Tunnel as the longest road tunnel on Earth at 24.5 kilometres in length.

[FrostyMug]

Beer store and LCBO sell at "floor price." Costco can't be cheaper, they'll just be same price at best and maybe more convenient in some cases. That's assuming you want a big ass package size from major brewers because you won't get selection of smaller sizes or craft beers.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by FrostyMug

Beer store and LCBO sell at "floor price." Costco can't be cheaper, they'll just be same price at best and maybe more convenient in some cases. That's assuming you want a big ass package size from major brewers because you won't get selection of smaller sizes or craft beers.

No.. the floor price for beer in Ontario is $2.816 a litre; this very specific price was implemented by Ford as his infamous "buck a beer" promise, as $2.816 a litre corresponds to $1.00 for 355ml. LCBO and Beer Store don't sell anywhere close to that price.

Now, for wine on the other hand the floor is $10.35 a litre - this isn't much lower than the cheapest wines at the LCBO.

[FrostyMug]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

No.. the floor price for beer in Ontario is $2.816 a litre; this very specific price was implemented by Ford as his infamous "buck a beer" promise, as $2.816 a litre corresponds to $1.00 for 355ml. LCBO and Beer Store don't sell anywhere close to that price.

No they don't and the reason they don't is that no brewer can produce, transport and retail 355ml's of beer in Ontario for under a dollar and still make money. Ford's little price promise was a set up and never truly attainable other than Galen Weston's little loss leader PC brand that was priced that way for a "limited time" just to placate his good buddy Doug. If Ford had ever wanted to have a "buck a beer" all he had to do was reduce the provincial tax, but that never happened. There's a minimum price for each brand and that is the price at the Beer Store and the LCBO. Noteably that was also the same price no matter where you bought your beer in Ontario. Be it Ottawa, Windsor, Thunder Bay or points between. But not any more...

[haljackey]

Originally Posted by FrostyMug

No they don't and the reason they don't is that no brewer can produce, transport and retail 355ml's of beer in Ontario for under a dollar and still make money.

200 Kirkland lagers for $200. Make it happen, Costco.



Hope you like that first can, you got 199 to go.

[Innsertnamehere]

I’m not expecting Costco to undercut the beer store by that much, to be clear.

A $55 pack of beer at the Beer Store isn’t suddenly going to become $32 or anything. Costco might sell it for $52 or something instead as they will have all the same taxes and base costs to pay that the Beer Store does, which is the majority of the cost of the beer.

Costco will sell cheaper though. They have been able to sell wine and beer for years if they wanted but never bothered as it did not offer value to customers. They are doing it now, and doing it because they can undercut the beer store now.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by haljackey

200 Kirkland lagers for $200. Make it happen, Costco.



Hope you like that first can, you got 199 to go.

That GIF is funny. But if I saw that in real life, I'd turn around and head home.
(and I think they'll be multiples of 12 or 24, though that kind of spoils the marketing lingo... 192 for $192 or 216 for $216 doesn't have the same cachet... nor does 240 for $240 though it seems a bit better)

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

I’m not expecting Costco to undercut the beer store by that much, to be clear.

A $55 pack of beer at the Beer Store isn’t suddenly going to become $32 or anything. Costco might sell it for $52 or something instead as they will have all the same taxes and base costs to pay that the Beer Store does, which is the majority of the cost of the beer.

Costco will sell cheaper though. They have been able to sell wine and beer for years if they wanted but never bothered as it did not offer value to customers. They are doing it now, and doing it because they can undercut the beer store now.

Presumably Costco sells beer in store in other provinces, I wonder how their prices compare to the other retailers there?

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by FrostyMug

There's a minimum price for each brand and that is the price at the Beer Store and the LCBO.

No there isn't. The only minimum price is the declared floor of $2.816 a litre and that applies to all beer. Brands don't have a minimum price. Retailers in Ontario are free to charge whatever price they want for a can of beer as long as it's above $1. Costco will absolutely undercut the Beer Store and LCBO. Probably not to $1, though. That is a very low price.

[Loco101]

I've purchased beer at Costco in Quebec. I'm curious to see if the price at Ontario Costco locations will be as low. If it is then Costco will certainly take a huge amount of sales away from The Beer Store.

[SteelTown]

Inflation, anyone? Ontario's Sunshine List system is now unfair to small towns, mayors say
$100,000 salary reporting threshold set in 1996 remains in place

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottaw...-say-1.7323882

Bob Mullin isn't against sunshine lists. He just believes that, with inflation eroding the value of salaries over the last three decades, the rules of Ontario's public salary reporting system need a revamp.

Mullin is the mayor of Stirling-Rawdon, a township of about 5,000 people located 23 kilometres northwest of Belleville, Ont.

Like any other Ontario municipality, big or small, Stirling-Rawdon is required every year to publicly report which of its employees makes $100,000 or more in a year. It's been that way since the Public Sector Salary Disclosure Act of 1996 was adopted in the name of public accountability on government spending.

In 2024, however, $100,000 buys a lot less — and yet that reporting threshold has not been changed since Mike Harris ruled at Queen's Park.

Had that figure been adjusted for inflation, that would now represent somebody making around $180,000 — "a huge difference," Mullin said.

Stirling-Rawdon's township council recently called on Premier Doug Ford's government to update the act so that the inflation rate is applied each year.

For a township the size of Stirling-Rawdon to publicly disclose the name and salary of a small number of locals who meet that outdated threshold almost amounts to an invasion of privacy, Mullin said.

"They all live in a small town. Everybody knows who they are," he said.

[Djeffery]

I'm unsure about this entire sunshine list thing. Seems to have been brought about as a way to shame those civil servants back when 100k was a massive salary. 100k doesn't carry that same cachet it did, especially that far back. Should that number be higher? Maybe it should be lower. Maybe all public wages should be publicly known. Or maybe there should be classifications that people fall into rather than their exact salaries being public. "John Smith, Constable, London Police. 100,000-120,000" type of thing. Maybe only people with a certain level of job title should have their exact salaries disclosed and those below that level fall into a salary range scale, maybe all the way down to the bottom pay scales.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

Maybe all public wages should be publicly known.

This is what I feel. And I'm a public servant on The List.

[haljackey]

100k may not be extravagant anymore, but it still means you're earning a comfortable living on the taxpayer's dime.

On the other end of things, minimum wage just went up to $17.20. Assuming you are working 40 hours a week that means your salary is $35,776.

This means people on this list are making just over 3x the minimum at the lowest end in terms of gross pay. (Taxes and things will eat away at it of course)

[Innsertnamehere]

22% of full-time, employed Canadians earned over $100k in 2022. This number is increasing rapidly as it is a wage equal to most middle-income educated jobs.

It's a decent wage, but far from "big money". In much of the province it's barely enough to buy property.

wage growth over the last two years has also been very strong. I wouldn't be surprised if the percentage is significantly higher for 2024.