2 cities/towns that are opposites in the same state

[iheartthed]

Pittsburgh and Philadelphia feel very different to me too, and not just because Philadelphia is bigger. They seem at least as distinct from each other as Cleveland and Cincinnati or San Francisco and Los Angeles.

[edale]

I think Homebucket's suggestion of Irvine and Berkeley being opposites is spot on. Also those Irvine streetviews make me itch...what a soulless place.

I also can see Cincinnati and Cleveland somewhat working for this. They have several notable differences:

- Cle is a classic Great Lakes city with big, wide streets and monumental, City Beautiful inspired design like the downtown malls. Cincy is a classic river city with more narrow, intimate streets.

- Cleveland is much more ethnically diverse, especially among its European population. Cleveland received a ton of 'second wave' immigration from Eastern and Southern Europe, while Cincinnati largely did not. Thus they have neighborhoods like Slavic Village, Little Italy, Ukrainian Village, etc. while you will not find similar ethnic neighborhoods in Cincy (even if many of these neighborhoods in Cleveland are no longer ethnic hubs). Cleveland also has a large Puerto Rican population and a small legacy Chinatown on its inner east side. None of that in Cincy.

- Cincinnati is very hilly, while Cleveland is mostly flat. The resulting road network is much weirder in Cincy, as they navigate hills, ravines, and creeks/rivers. Cleveland does have some hills on the east side, and you don't have to get far outside of the City for topography to really pick up. Both are much hillier than pancake flat Columbus, though.

- Cleveland is/was much more industrial and blue collar than Cincinnati. Both have big manufacturing sectors of their economy, but Cleveland is a steel town through and through. Cincinnati's biggest industrial site isn't a steel mill, but a soap factory (Ivorydale). Both have made a big transition to eds and meds in recent years.

- Accents are another difference. Clevelanders have that nasally Great Lakes accent, which gets more pronounced the further east you go. Cincy has none of that, but you will find some tinges of a southern/appalachian accent around town. And the southern accents come on pretty strong just a ~30 minute drive south into Kentucky. There is a hyperlocal west side accent, but that's probably too in the weeds and nuanced for this conversation, hah.

- The biggest difference, to me, is probably their built environments. Cincinnati became a bigger city earlier than Cleveland, and it shows. Cincy has lots of row housing and tenement style walkups in its core, while Cleveland has basically none. Cleveland's dominant housing typology is wood framed, detached housing. Often duplexes in the "Cleveland Double' style. Cleveland transitions very quickly from downtown to detached homes with yards. You can see this in two of their downtown adjacent neighborhoods- Tremont and Ohio City.

Contrast that to Cincy, who has much more traditionally urban neighborhoods surrounding its downtown: Over the Rhine, West End, Pendleton.

I wouldn't say they're exactly opposites, but I think they are considerably different from another, despite being only 4 hours apart, to fit nicely in this discussion.

[Quixote]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Cleveland is physically closer to Detroit, but the land route distance between Cleveland and Detroit is slightly longer than the distance between Cleveland and Pittsburgh.

Don’t know why I overlooked the fact that OH borders PA, not NYS.

So Pittsburgh/Detroit vs. Louisville/Indianapolis

[Quixote]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Yeah, Ann Arbor has a well known identity so most people would just assume you are aware of it. It's like someone saying they are from Fort Worth instead of "the Dallas area", Newark instead of "the New York area", etc. But like those other places, Ann Arbor isn't quite its own place. It is part of the Detroit media market and also shares a lot of infrastructure with the Detroit area.

If a major superstar athlete like a LeBron James hailed from Ann Arbor and went on to play for the Lions, Tigers, Pistons, or Red Wings, would the local Detroit media refer to him as a “hometown kid”? LeBron grew up in Akron, something that is well-documented and made mention of, and Akron is somewhat its own entity with about the same proximity to Cleveland as Ann Arbor is to Detroit.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Quixote

If a major superstar athlete like a LeBron James hailed from Ann Arbor and went on to play for the Lions, Tigers, Pistons, or Red Wings, would the local Detroit media refer to him as a “hometown kid”?

Yes, that person would absolutely be considered a local.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Pittsburgh and Philadelphia feel very different to me too, and not just because Philadelphia is bigger. They seem at least as distinct from each other as Cleveland and Cincinnati or San Francisco and Los Angeles.

Yeah, they are different. But they are far from opposites. That’s the thread topic.

As I said previously, Pittsburgh is what Philadelphia would be if it were in Appalachia.

Pittsburgh is specifically derived from Philadelphia historically. Pittsburgh is “of Philadelphia”. The same cannot be said of the relationship of the other pairs you cite.

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by ChiSoxRox

Using say, a factor of 2 in metro population as "roughly equal," Missouri comes to mind.

St. Louis - pre-war brick formerly industrial river city, the "westernmost Eastern city"

Kansas City - stronger growth, agricultural railroading base, suburban form, the "easternmost Western city"

(In comparison, Seattle and Spokane is an MSA population ratio of nearly 7.)

As someone who has lived in both - in my mind Kansas City is actually fairly similar to St. Louis without the large swath of pre-1900 urban core and corresponding industrial development/scars. That sounds like a big difference on one hand, but the western part of the St. Louis urban core and especially the pre-war suburbs of St. Louis have a lot of areas that are strikingly similar to the KC urban core "proper." As an aside, St. Louis has a major agricultural railroading base as well, where the eastern and western railroads meet and vast quantities of Illinois corn are transferred for shipment on the Mississippi to the New Orleans grain transfer and oceangoing export facilities. Although, a lot of that appears to also come in on trucks from central Illinois - the grain transfer facilities in industrial North St. Louis backup with trucks for dozens of blocks in fall.

But, I digress, your assessment isnt wrong, either.