Next 24 hour American city?

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by craigs

My sister and bro-in-law do their Christmas shopping for their three kids with a buzz. I tagged along one year and it was hysterical--shopping for toys is so much more fun after a couple of martinis!

That's hilarious!

Yeah drunk shopping for us anyway, we end up with more food. It's like "All we needed was toilet paper and Bon Ami, but we end up with that and a bottle of lambrusco, Pringles, string cheese and olives, and some candy bars! How'd that happen??"

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by craigs

The Market Street Safeway in my old San Francisco neighborhood was open 24 hours for decades. Every now and then I'd pop in to pick something up on my way home from a party or bar or whatever, and there were always plenty of people in there. Now it closes at 9:00 p.m.

Geez. What happened? I mean, I know it was the pandemic, but what caused the economic calculus to shift so radically, even post-pandemic? There are still San Franciscans, they still have money, they still cook. No one needs late night anything?

And I never got Boston. It should have good nightlife. Arguably biggest college town on earth, lots of young single people with money, and tons of Irish, who like to drink (yeah I'm stereotyping). Strictly in terms of nightlife, Boston might be the most pathetic metro of its size anywhere in the Western world.

[PhilliesPhan]

Originally Posted by manchester united

What about Philly?

Philly used to be more like a 24 hour city before the pandemic, much more so than Boston. I turned 21 in 2016 and was fully immersed in the party scene by 2018. I miss being able to pregame, find a nightclub to stay at until 2AM (some nightclubs could even stay open until 3AM), grab something hot from the 24/7 Wawa on Broad and Walnut, and take the El/BSL, which had 24 hour service on the weekends, home. On the Regional Rail side, SEPTA also used to have Friday and Saturday service that would see the last trains on the Manayunk/Norristown Line reach Manayunk just before last call at 2AM. Partying in Manayunk and returning to Temple's campus late at night used to be a breeze.

Even outside of partying, it seems like less places are open 24/7. For example, the Fresh Grocer on Broad and Oxford was open 24/7 and always buzzing with students when I was attending Temple University. I used to go there at 3AM to pick up a meal or snack after a long study session at Paley or the Tech. Now it closes at 11PM.

[Steely Dan]

Like other cities, Chicago used to be a lot more 24 hour in the before times.

There used to be a bunch of 24 hour Jewels (our version of Safeway), but they all close at midnight now. We still have a few 24 hours Walgreens, but they used to be way more common. Ditto 24 hour greasy spoon diners and taquerias. One of the finest 24 hour diners in the city was a few blocks from us (Jeri's Grill), but the pandemic killed it, and it reopened under new ownership as a breakfast and lunch only diner. Similarly, my local Walgreens was 24 hour too, but now closes at 11pm.

To my knowledge, the only 24 hour businesses within a 5-10 minute walk of our home are a 7-11 and a Burger King. The only non-shitty 24 hour restaurant options anywhere near me are a really good greasy spoon called Diner Grill and an el Ranchito taqueria, but both of them are about 1.5 miles from me.


The city still has decent drinking laws for a US city (a 2-tier liquor license system of 2am and 4am last call, with everyone getting a bonus hour on Saturday night if they want it), but being 48, that means very little to me these days.

In addition to the general disruption of the pandemic, I suspect that recently passed large minimum wage increases have made the margins of operating 24 hours too thin for many of these places.

[chris08876]

Every city is 23 hr 56 minutes and 4 seconds city. How much time there is in a rotation.

But if enough Americans in American Cities in unison all eat at Texas Road House and McDonalds, and than jump forward, maybe the impact is enough to get it to over 24 hours. 25 Hour city maybe, just need enough overweight Arby eating folks to jump and fall in a forward fashion to change the rotation of the Earth. Can be done!!!

As for 24 hour cities, I'd look at cities where the residents all engage in crystal meth. Its not just a 24 hour city but 72 hour city. Always an activity going on, if its brushing the streets with a toothbrush to clean the streets or cutting the grass with a pair of sowing scissors... it'll get done in time.

[Illithid Dude]

Los Angeles is a 24 hour city if you want it to be. I always know of a few after hours spots or house parties going on into the early hours of the morning. I've certainly been out more than a couple of times to watch the sky start to glow blue.

It feels like New York has been closing down earlier. Many of my favorite twenty four hour spots are now late night spots at best, like Veselka or Great NY Noodle Town. At least the bars there stay open until 4.

[craigs]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Geez. What happened? I mean, I know it was the pandemic, but what caused the economic calculus to shift so radically, even post-pandemic? There are still San Franciscans, they still have money, they still cook. No one needs late night anything?

As best I can tell, the store decided it wasn't worth staying open all night. The increased minimum wage, widespread shoplifting overnight, and customers going to bed early likely tipped the scale in favor of closing down at night.

When I first moved to SF in 1992, that same neighborhood not only had the 24/hr grocery store, but also two 24/hr diners (both are gone) and a bunch of other restaurants that stayed open late. Now, there are a ton of vacancies and the survivors all close early. Our go-to Chinese place there used to be open until midnight--now it closes at 9:15 p.m. Our favorite local sushi joint used to be open until 11. Nowadays it doesn't even open on Mondays and Tuesdays, and closes down at 9 or 9:30 the days it opens. San Francisco just goes to bed earlier now than at any time in my adult life.

Originally Posted by Illithid Dude

Los Angeles is a 24 hour city if you want it to be. I always know of a few after hours spots or house parties going on into the early hours of the morning. I've certainly been out more than a couple of times to watch the sky start to glow blue.

There's a lot to do in LA overnight, as recounted in this article I linked to previously, but I personally have little to no interest in being out that late anymore. Once in a while we go out and hit some WeHo bars with friends, but we usually call it a night by midnight or so and I don't think they stay out much later. I do appreciate that our usual grocery stores are open fairly late relative to my old SF neighborhood.

[JManc]

My favorite bar in SF is a little place on Maiden St. and if I stayed until 10 or 11 (late for me these days), it seems like I was one of the last ones awake and out and about. I was shocked how quiet it was. Wished I could have seen it in the 90's.

[softee]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

The trend seems to signal that fewer cities will be 24/7. At least, outside of Asia, and maybe NYC.

In Canada, only Montreal comes close (and it is not 24/7, yet, although they are talking about removing the rule for bars to close at 3am).

I don't know about that, Toronto still has quite a few 24 hours places left, although major grocery stores like Metro that used to be 24 hours close at 11 pm now. Lots of fast food restaurants & convenience stores downtown are open 24 hours, all the Rabba supermarkets & a few non-chain smaller supermarkets are 24 hours, some Shoppers Drug Marts, some restaurants in Chinatown & both Koreatowns (and lots of others that are open until 3-4 am). There are still 24 hour diners such as Fran's and the Lakeview, & a few other non fast-food restaurants scattered around downtown. There is a big network of bus routes that operate all night (the blue night network), & several 24 hours streetcar routes. The subway stops running around 2am, but there are last trains operating as late as 2:30 am. Last call is at 2am (extended to 4am during special events), but there are lots of after-hours places that go all night.

[chris08876]

New Brunswick NJ is kind of a 24 hour town or city. Big college presence, a lot of folks out and about all night on George Street, and with the club scene in some of the more migrant prone areas of the city, there is always something going on.

Also somewhat larger station in Central NJ for the Northeast Corridor.

The university presence adds to the spark.

Some of the clubs do close at 4 am. Some at 2 am but there are some, in some neighborhoods that have the liquor pouring till 3:50 am before the lights come on.

Also if you want good, late night, like past 2 am food, a lot of good Dominican food places out there.

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by mhays

One possible contributor: In LA, even the lower-wage off-shift workers typically drive everywhere.

Thats true for most cities, outside of NYC.

[3rd&Brown]

TBH I don't even think NYC is a 24 hour city anymore. It's really hard to get food after midnight let alone 2 or 4AM.

Gen Z is super boring. Maybe it's because they don't know how to talk to strangers, since they grew up with their faces in their phones.

Shrug.

[craigs]

Originally Posted by JManc

My favorite bar in SF is a little place on Maiden St. and if I stayed until 10 or 11 (late for me these days), it seems like I was one of the last ones awake and out and about. I was shocked how quiet it was. Wished I could have seen it in the 90's.

My first apartment (1992-3) in SF was three blocks west of where Maiden Lane hits Union Square. In those days, there was a ton of late-night activity on Powell between Union Sq. and the cable car turnaround, and also on and around the intersection of Mason and Geary. On just those blocks there were two all-night diners, two 24/hr fast food joints, a pizza slice joint that was open after the bars closed, a bunch of other eateries that stayed open late, and a handful of raucous bars. There was even a three-story Borders that stayed open until midnight. But Powell got gentrified by the likes of Uniqlo (since closed) and Forever 21 (also closed), so that nightlife disappeared. One of the diners is still open all night, but the other one only serves breakfast and lunch. Those bars and the pizza joint are gone. One fast food joint closes at 1:00 a.m., but the other one at the turnaround closes at 11. And so on. Anyway, the point is that the nightlife there now is a pale shadow of what it was in the 1990s. And it's the same story throughout San Francisco. Don't get me wrong, there are still lots of bars in the city but the restaurants and stores don't stay open late like they used to.

[PhillyRising]

Originally Posted by EastSideHBG

No, similar to Boston in this area and since the pandemic it's gone the other direction. DC had a chance but seems to have gone this direction also.

And like JManc said the younger crew is just not living the same and my friends' kids and neighbors who are 21+ are super boring

Center City lost almost all of it's 24 hour diners too.

Little Pete's...gone.

The Savoy at 11th and Locust was the absolute best. You would go in there in the middle of the night...order your food and I kid you not the waitress was putting it in front of you within 5 minutes....even when it was packed full of half drunk gays at 2 in the morning after a night partying in the Gayborhood.

I'd say Philadelphia is a 20 hour city...it takes a nap from 2am to 6am.

[The ATX]

Originally Posted by PhillyRising

I'd say Philadelphia is a 20 hour city...it takes a nap from 2am to 6am.

I'd say that that 20 hour period now describes most large cities.

[AviationGuy]

When I was in college in the 70s and would go home on weekends to Houston, I would stay out all night. Clubs were bustling everywhere, and traffic on Loop 610 would be crammed with cars at 3 a.m.. Bars closed at 2 a.m., but then barhoppers would create "after parties". So I'd get back to my parent's house about 5-6 a.m.. I have no idea what it's like now, but I doubt it's anywhere near what it was back then. We kids had a hell of a good time. I don't know what they do now.

[AviationGuy]

In the 70s when I was at UT Austin, it was crazy all night long, but it was like Houston, where after parties occurred after the clubs closed. I remember 24-hour eateries, the most famous being Katz' Deli (owned and operated by a guy from NYC). Katz' Deli was packed at every hour of the night and day. And then it closed, maybe in the 90s or early 2000s. I don't remember when. There's Sixth St, which is packed just about every night, but I don't know how late people stay there now. It's a different world from the one I was a youngster in.

[JManc]

^ Katz's is still open. They moved in the early 2000's to a new location in the Montrose area. As for what people are doing...same thing we're doing right now...on our phones. lol I've actually witnessed a bunch of 20-something's on a Saturday night...all on their phones totally disconnected with one another and where they were. I'm so glad we didn't have that back in the day. I was passed out on someone's kitchen floor from alcohol poisoning. Don't miss those days either.

@ Craig's. I'm very familiar with these area and can only imagine what it was like when it was more alive.

[MonkeyRonin]

You guys are making the mistake of equating nightlife with being "24 hours". That's a part of it, of course, but the bigger driver of 24-hour business is having large numbers of night-time shift workers. Nobody's stopping for a grocery shop on their way home from the club at 4am - but someone coming home from a night shift at the factory might.

The other factor that makes Southeast Asian and Middle Eastern cities so busy at night is the climate - it's so hot all day that the only pleasant time to go out is at night. For more northerly cities, daytime is the most pleasant time for most of the year.

Originally Posted by edale

San Francisco is the opposite of a 24 hour city. I find it hard to even find places to eat there past 9 PM. It's shockingly early to bed for being such a big city. Boston is similar for sure.

I actually think Los Angeles might be the second most 24 hour city in the US. While nightlife closes pretty early (2am), there are always plenty of cars on the roads no matter the time of night. Now, I don't know exactly where these people are going, but they're always there. When I visit other cities, I tend to remark about how quiet and empty the streets get at night compared to LA, where there's always at least a background buzz of activity. I've even found this to be the case in Chicago.

The West Coast in general is very early-to-bed, early-to-rise - Los Angeles excepted; it's big enough to have a critical mass of late-night activity.

[AviationGuy]

Originally Posted by JManc

^ Katz's is still open. They moved in the early 2000's to a new location in the Montrose area. As for what people are doing...same thing we're doing right now...on our phones. lol I've actually witnessed a bunch of 20-something's on a Saturday night...all on their phones totally disconnected with one another and where they were. I'm so glad we didn't have that back in the day. I was passed out on someone's kitchen floor from alcohol poisoning. Don't miss those days either.

@ Craig's. I'm very familiar with these area and can only imagine what it was like when it was more alive.

The Katz's I was mentioning was in downtown Austin. I wonder if the Katz's in Houston is the same owner that closed the Austin deli.