Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 5

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by zurich

The fact that a developer if FINALLY building condos is great for downtown overall. Since there were no other condos being constructed (that I know of) I am not surprised the tower will be in the 15-16 story range, since why would a developer start with a massive 30-story tower from the get go? Too risky.

Same thing happened when I lived in Austin, I remember the "Plaza Lofts" built around 20-years ago and was around 8-stories, then a few others constructed soon after...then BOOM, developers started building 30-40+ story towers. Maybe that will happen in Salt Lake..? Once the green loop is built, the entertainment district, downtown will be hoppin.

Moreover, walking around many of the southern or midwest cities pretty much suck in the summertime, with 95 degree heat and 85% humidity. Even on the hottest day in Salt Lake, in the shade, it feels like absolute paradise compared to places like Austin, Houston, Tampa, Orlando, etc.

I mean, it's not like there hasn't been residential built downtown. The two most recent high-rises were residential and they were much more significant than a fifteen story building taking the place of land that was supposed to be a significant tower.

I'm glad something is going up but I think disappointment is justified. It just feels like Salt Lake always gets the bare minimum on everything.

[Rileybo]

Not that it really matters, but just to clarify: I’m not saying anything to the effect of “Austin > SLC”, I’m pointing out that the urban condo markets of both cities aren’t very comparable in 2024. Also, obviously summers in the South vs the Mountain West aren’t very comparable, either. Personally for me, summer in Utah is mostly miserable. Soon, summer everywhere will just be deadly, literally.

[bob rulz]

Don't get me wrong, I feel a bit of disappointment at 15 stories. But 1) if they actually go through with condos, that will be big and 2) I think calling it inconsequential is just inaccurate. It will still bring more people into downtown, and if it has good street engagement, that's a bonus.

[Comrade]

I believe it's fairly inconsequential compared to what had been floated around previously. It reminds me of the whole Liberty Sky situation. But at least we got 20+ stories out of that.

[Juancrocco]

Originally Posted by zurich

Yes, there is a month or two where it can get too hot here in Salt Lake, but I've lived in Austin, Dallas and there is just no comparison. Trees and grass constantly die in Texas, so there is rarely shade, 140 degree concrete and still 90 degrees at midnight. If I were a condo developer looking for an up and coming city where people invest in the location because they want to dine outside, walk, bike and not almost die, I'd be looking at our downtown vs anywhere in the south. Sure Austin has a million high rises, but walking downtown, anywhere for 6-months out of the year just flat out sucks. My friends have all left downtown Austin... many moved north to Colorado, Oregon, Washington, etc. 60 story buildings do not = a great downtown. Even at this point, I would take downtown Salt Lake vs Austin any day of the week.

Here here. I 100% agree. Austin is a cool place no doubt, I used to go at least twice a month for years and have great friends out there. But I too would take SLC over its downtown. Buildings and towers are part of the view but aren’t the city itself. And living right next to the delta center with access to the airport, all the restaurants, soon to be two professional teams with a third 20 minutes down the road, salt lake is truly awesome and amazing downtown. It doesn’t have all the height but it punches way above its weight in vibrancy among other things especially at night. I love it here that’s why I live right in the middle of it all. And it’s wayyy better than Austin’s downtown. Not more impressive, but better, in my humble opinion.

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by Juancrocco

Here here. I 100% agree. Austin is a cool place no doubt, I used to go at least twice a month for years and have great friends out there. But I too would take SLC over its downtown. Buildings and towers are part of the view but aren’t the city itself. And living right next to the delta center with access to the airport, all the restaurants, soon to be two professional teams with a third 20 minutes down the road, salt lake is truly awesome and amazing downtown. It doesn’t have all the height but it punches way above its weight in vibrancy among other things especially at night. I love it here that’s why I live right in the middle of it all. And it’s wayyy better than Austin’s downtown. Not more impressive, but better, in my humble opinion.

I think we all have opinions and that's great. I don't think most really feel Salt Lake's downtown punches above its weight in vibrancy. I am hopeful, especially with the upcoming sports district, but no - SLC still lags behind even cities with smaller population in overall vibrancy (I think Boise's downtown is more vibrant than downtown Salt Lake).

As for Austin, there's no part of Salt Lake that can rival Sixth Street:





Maybe one day, Main can get to that point but it's not there yet.

[zurich]

[QUOTE=Comrade;10265654]

Always love your opinions Comrade. But, we called it "Dirty Sixth" for a reason and there was a ton of crime down there. Austin does have some great restaurants, clubs and I do agree it is vibrant. I think Salt Lake has a lot more upside.. but just my opinion.

Green Loop update on KSL

https://www.ksl.com/article/51101507...d-be-completed

I know we were talking about creating a spur or connection to Memory Grove park, and I think that is exactly what they want to build. This would be such an amazing addition and I am hopeful this will be completed by the Olympics.

[Orlando]

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[ajiuO]

So building salt lake is reporting that Hines filed for a permit to build a parking lot on the Pantages site… you have got to be effing kidding me! What a joke.

[msbutah]

Looks like it:

[wrendog]

Originally Posted by msbutah

looks like it:

yes! A retention pond!

[bob rulz]

Originally Posted by Comrade

I believe it's fairly inconsequential compared to what had been floated around previously. It reminds me of the whole Liberty Sky situation. But at least we got 20+ stories out of that.

At the expense of what? It has horrible street engagement. It has no ground floor retail. Its front door doesn't even face State Street and is covered by a hotel ass looking portico. Liberty Sky is actually one of the worst towers downtown. At least the CW Urban proposal will face the street and have ground floor retail.

Originally Posted by ajiuO

So building salt lake is reporting that Hines filed for a permit to build a parking lot on the Pantages site… you have got to be effing kidding me! What a joke.

I find it highly unlikely that will be allowed, given the current restrictions on parking lots in D-1.

https://codelibrary.amlegal.com/code...ut/0-0-0-65467

But I haven't read the article because I won't pay for BSL so I'm not sure what conclusion they come to regarding that.

I think parking lots are also a conditional use, so I'm not sure how they would get away without a public hearing unless I'm missing something about this proposal.

[bob rulz]

Originally Posted by Orlando

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Timeline is ridiculously long, but I guess better late than never. It just feels like one of those "just far enough in the future that this can still be cut if funding isn't found" kind of things.

I also wish they would focus on 200 East first. That's where the trial run was and where I think it would have the most visibility and the most impact. 200 East is absurdly wide for how little it's used, even in comparison to other downtown streets.

[Rileybo]

Originally Posted by ajiuO

So building salt lake is reporting that Hines filed for a permit to build a parking lot on the Pantages site… you have got to be effing kidding me! What a joke.

We really do be living in the worst timeline.

[Orlando]

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SLC still not has learned their lesson from Sugarhole. They should never allow for a demolition permit until the developer has proven financing to build whatever they are proposing to build in place of the older building.

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by bob rulz

At the expense of what?

Not sure what you're talking about. I mentioned at the expense of a prime area to develop something consequential and not another mini-tower.

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by zurich

Always love your opinions Comrade. But, we called it "Dirty Sixth" for a reason and there was a ton of crime down there. Austin does have some great restaurants, clubs and I do agree it is vibrant. I think Salt Lake has a lot more upside.. but just my opinion.

It doesn't seem to deter people as I'm sure more people walk that area in one weekend than Salt Lake's Main Street sees in a month.

Salt Lake's upside is solid. Not sure I'd put it above Austin but there's a lot going for it. It's just that we seem to take forever to get there. I am hoping the Olympics and the new sports district will help.

[mattreedah]

Originally Posted by Comrade

It doesn't seem to deter people as I'm sure more people walk that area in one weekend than Salt Lake's Main Street sees in a month.

I love Austin! Been there for work or fun a few times in the last few years. They are light years ahead of SLC in a lot of ways, but last time I was there (summer 2023) my friend took me around and showed me how bad 5th and 6th has gotten due to homelessness and vacancy. It was very sad. He said a lot of things were to blame but COVID and the previous anti-police/enforcement mayor & city council were up there. I don't know enough to say.

[mattreedah]

Originally Posted by bob rulz

At the expense of what? It has horrible street engagement. It has no ground floor retail. Its front door doesn't even face State Street and is covered by a hotel ass looking portico. Liberty Sky is actually one of the worst towers downtown. At least the CW Urban proposal will face the street and have ground floor retail.

We need 10 more Liberty Sky's. SLC needs additional population. If they replaced vacant lots (like L-Sky was) or street parking all with just Liberty Sky clones we'd be in a MUCH better spot.

[bob rulz]

I mean yeah, Liberty Sky is better than nothing. But we can do better. I don't think the current D-1 street engagement standards existed when Liberty Sky was approved so I don't think we'll see another Liberty Sky, thankfully.

Residents are good but street engagement is the most important part of building vibrancy in a city. We need towers with street-level engagement AND people. And sure, I agree, the more height the better, but it's not all about height.