How sketchy and pervasive is your city's visible transient/drug addict situation?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

In Copenhagen, you see Inuit from Greenland on the street. I have never seen anything similar with Sami.

I would hesitate to analogize the Sami to the First Nations insofar as using "indigenous" in this sense implies a history of colonization similar to the European settlement of the Americas.

The Sami migration into Lapland etc. was a late Bronze Age phenomenon. The Indo-European ancestors of today's ethnic Swedes were already here. Without in any way wishing to diminish the importance of the Sami presence on their lands, it is nevertheless accurate to say that the Nordic peoples are indigenous to Scandinavia.

Thanks for confirming. I suspected all of this.

[kool maudit]

It's really closer to Aztec/Apache than Iroquois/French insofar as the difference is settled vs. semi-nomadic and not so much early v. later arrivals, colonization etc.

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

I would hesitate to analogize the Sami to the First Nations insofar as using "indigenous" in this sense implies a history of colonization similar to the European settlement of the Americas.

The Sami migration into Lapland etc. was a late Bronze Age phenomenon. The Indo-European ancestors of today's ethnic Swedes were already here. Without in any way wishing to diminish the importance of the Sami presence on their lands, it is nevertheless accurate to say that the Nordic peoples are indigenous to Scandinavia.

Interesting; I always assumed that the Sami were the indigenous people of the area and were displaced later by the Indo-European-speaking ancestors of today's Scandinavians, "forcing" the Sami to move further north (to hang on to their language/culture). Kind of like the situation in the Philippines, where the Aeta, Igorot, etc., and other indigenous people of the Philippines were displaced by the Malays/Austronesians who came later, "forcing" the Aeta, Igorot, etc., to the mountains.

This is a Norwegian example, but I guess maybe it wasn't until the notion of nationalism that forced the Sami of Norway to assimilate into Norwegian culture? Apparently, there was a period when Sami culture and language were forbidden in Norway:

• Video Link

[ilcapo]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I've been to the Nordic countries but it was a while ago so the situation may have changed (as it has dramatically in Canada). But back then I noticed few homeless and addicted people on the streets. If so, what are the general demographics?

Also, what is the socio-economic situation of the region's Indigenous population, the Sami? (I don't get the impression that it is as catastrophic as it is for new world Indigenous people.)

Stockholm (the city municipality, 980 000 pop) has approx 2500 labeled as homeless, but only around 200 of them actually sleep outside.

Demographics are hard to come by as we dont categorize people by race, but around 55% of those are born in Sweden and 15% each for both Africa and asia. 3% Finland.

Sami i dont know. Not many of them in any of the 3 biggest cities.

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

Originally Posted by ilcapo

Would you say that the homeless and/or drugaddicts roaming the streets of lets say Skid Row or Kensington reflects the demography of the city fairly well?

One thing that struck me after doing some self research of Kensington was the lack of asian-americans in these camps. By the look of it theres a somewhat even mix of white/black/latino.

Absolutely not, at least in regards to Los Angeles. Skid row it's overwhelmingly black with a little white and Hispanic sprinkled in. LA city is like 10% black

[pj3000]

I'll just say that the situation in Pittsburgh and Miami is not nearly as tolerant of the visible transient/drug addict population as it seems to be in west coast cities.

[craigs]

Originally Posted by pj3000

I'll just say that the situation in Pittsburgh and Miami is not nearly as tolerant of the visible transient/drug addict population as it seems to be in west coast cities.

Last month's Supreme Court ruling overturning a 9th Circuit Court of Appeals ruling that essentially barred Western states from breaking up homeless encampments should change West Coast cities' homeless policies significantly. San Francisco's mayor has announced impending sweeps, for example. Our hands are no longer tied.

[Xing]

I’ve noticed that in my neighborhood, while there are a lot of homeless people, they’re not usually the ones causing problems. It’s more often gang members or others who are clearly not homeless dealing drugs or breaking into cars. It’s interesting how our local park, which isn’t an official dog park but has a lot of dog owners, has a real mix of people, including the homeless.

The biggest issue we’ve faced with the homeless is them sometimes using the park as a bathroom, which isn’t great, especially with dogs around. I’ve seen some dogs go for that… not a pretty sight. But overall, the homeless folks aren’t the troublemakers here.

Having been through some rough patches myself and knowing people who’ve struggled with addiction, I have a lot of empathy for the homeless. Many of my friends who were on the streets got their lives together, so I get that addiction isn’t easy and people can turn things around.

But yeah, the homelessness situation in California is wild. There are so many homeless people everywhere, not just in the city center but in every suburb and shopping area. The weather and insane housing costs definitely play a role. What bugs me is how cities often just punish people for being homeless instead of offering real help. It’s frustrating.

[JManc]

I go to Alaska fairly often and Alaska Natives are heavily represented in the homeless population especially in Anchorage.

[Acajack]

In my city of Gatineau the number of homeless people had a five-fold increase from 2018 to 2022. Things have gotten considerably worse since then as well.

In Ottawa it was estimated that over 300 people were sleeping outside in the winter this past January. Before the pandemic it was estimated that less than 100 people slept outside during the winter.

Of course there are several thousand more homeless people in Ottawa, but they find refuge in shelters. Close 10,000 people every year find refuge in Ottawa shelters for at least one night at the moment. Just a couple of years ago the number was half of that.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by craigs

Last month's Supreme Court ruling overturning a 9th Circuit Court of Appeals ruling that essentially barred Western states from breaking up homeless encampments should change West Coast cities' homeless policies significantly. San Francisco's mayor has announced impending sweeps, for example. Our hands are no longer tied.

I do wonder what the hell's going to happen once the encampments are broken up though. It's not as if these people have the resources or wherewithal to become housed, and there's no additional money for shelters.

I suspect that lots of them will commit to rough sleeping in more hidden places within the metro, which fluctuate on a daily basis. Some may filter out entirely, looking for new areas.

[mhays]

Local policies vary, but here's my favorite: Get rid of camps that block sidewalks, pile trash, or cause spikes in crime.

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by craigs

Last month's Supreme Court ruling overturning a 9th Circuit Court of Appeals ruling that essentially barred Western states from breaking up homeless encampments should change West Coast cities' homeless policies significantly. San Francisco's mayor has announced impending sweeps, for example. Our hands are no longer tied.

It essentially criminalizes homelessness. California's Governor Newsom has already ordered homeless encampments be swept clean. Sleeping in public spaces has been criminalized. Palm Springs has recently adopted an ordinance that grants police the power to arrest people who sleep in public spaces and build encampments.

A few days ago, it was in the news that Los Angeles City and Los Angeles County will defy the governor's order; LA does not want people in encampments or who sleep in public, put in county jails.

We'll see how this plays out in the next several months, I guess.

[craigs]

Originally Posted by eschaton

I do wonder what the hell's going to happen once the encampments are broken up though. It's not as if these people have the resources or wherewithal to become housed, and there's no additional money for shelters.

I suspect that lots of them will commit to rough sleeping in more hidden places within the metro, which fluctuate on a daily basis. Some may filter out entirely, looking for new areas.

I suspect most Western states, cities, and counties will aggressively break up camps that are especially problematic or are in central or high-profile locations. I don't expect peaceful, peripheral and low-visibility camps will get the same attention, although there may be a widespread crackdown on blocking sidewalks, having fires, etc. And no doubt some communities will take a zero-tolerance stance. San Francisco, for example, is taking a hard line and promising widespread sweeps. If that comes to fruition I expect many of the homeless there will move to Southern California, as Los Angeles is not planning on widespread sweeps. Still, local officials will have and likely use additional tools for dealing with specific camps.

[homebucket]

Even before the sweeps, interestingly, the homeless in SF appears to be hitting a low for the past decade. Looks like some are getting housing, and others perhaps are moving to suburban parts of the Bay, or out to the Valley.

New Data: San Francisco Street Homelessness Hits 10-Year Low
Biennial homeless count finds 13% decrease in people living in tents and on the streets from 2022, hitting the lowest level since before 2015
May 16, 2024

San Francisco, CA – New data released as part of the City’s biennial homeless count shows that the number of people living on the streets of San Francisco has reached the lowest level in at least 10 years. This comes as San Francisco has expanded access to shelter and housing, and increased enforcement of local laws when offers of shelter and service are refused. The 2024 Point-in-Time (PIT) Count conducted in January 2024 found that fewer than 3,000 people are living in tents, structures, or on the streets, a 13% drop since the 2022 PIT Count and the lowest level since before the 2015 PIT Count. This decline matches recent declines in the City's quarterly tent count. Based on the April tent count, there are 41% fewer tents than since July 2023, the lowest rate that San Francisco has seen in five years.

...

Since coming into office, Mayor Breed has prioritized moving people indoors, by expanding shelter and housing to new historic highs, directing consistent encampment outreach efforts, and launching innovative programs like Street to Home, which has bypassed bureaucratic barriers to more quickly place people into vacant housing. She has also successfully worked with state legislators to expand mental health laws at the state level, allowing San Francisco to compel more people unwilling or unable to accept help into treatment and care.

...

Since the last Point-in-Time Count in 2022, HSOC encampment teams have conducted over 900 operations, moving over 2,800 people directly from encampments into shelter. This is in addition to the thousands of others who accessed shelter during that time through other access points.

...

San Francisco has helped over 15,000 people exit homelessness into housing since 2018 and has dramatically increased the rate at which people are exiting homelessness in the last two years. In 2022 and 2023, San Francisco helped an average of 3,300 people per year exit homelessness, a nearly 80% increase from the previous average between 2019 and 2021. This includes people moving into permanent supportive housing, accessing rental subsidies, or receiving travel relocation assistance.

https://www.sf.gov/news/new-data-san...ts-10-year-low

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by eschaton

I do wonder what the hell's going to happen once the encampments are broken up though. It's not as if these people have the resources or wherewithal to become housed, and there's no additional money for shelters.

I suspect that lots of them will commit to rough sleeping in more hidden places within the metro, which fluctuate on a daily basis. Some may filter out entirely, looking for new areas.

Encampment operations to respond to encampments and help the people in them. Service teams work with people ahead of time. On the day of the operation, a team comes to the encampment. People are offered services, treatment, and shelter. People remove tents and the space is cleaned.

During an operation, each time the team encounters someone, it is counted as an engagement. Some people have many engagements with the team, while others have only one.

During an operation, each time the team encounters someone, they are offered shelter, safe sleeping, and other services. Many take the offer for help. When they do, they get a referral. Some people in encampments already have housing or shelter. If they do, they get a referral to help return to their housing or shelter.

And

As part of Street to Home, the San Francisco Homeless Outreach Team (SFHOT) and the Housing Placement Team will first allocate units and then identify eligible individuals living on the streets. Those who are eligible will be shown a designated available room with the option to sign a lease and move in on the same day. In the interest of moving people more rapidly from the street, documentation will follow this process within 90 days of placement; there will no longer be a requirement to make the initial placement.

https://www.sf.gov/healthy-streets

https://www.sf.gov/news/san-francisc...vacancies-city

[JManc]

Are Oakland and Berkeley going to be as aggressive as San Francisco about breaking up these camps because if not, I suspect many will just across the BB where it's already infinitely worse than SF.

[pdxtex]

Originally Posted by eschaton

I do wonder what the hell's going to happen once the encampments are broken up though. It's not as if these people have the resources or wherewithal to become housed, and there's no additional money for shelters.

I suspect that lots of them will commit to rough sleeping in more hidden places within the metro, which fluctuate on a daily basis. Some may filter out entirely, looking for new areas.

Maybe some of them will go "home", as in back to the state they are from. Based on whatever survey they did in SF, Mayor Breed said over 40 percent of their homeless had moved to SF from elsewhere. I believe it

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by sopas ej

It essentially criminalizes homelessness. California's Governor Newsom has already ordered homeless encampments be swept clean. Sleeping in public spaces has been criminalized. Palm Springs has recently adopted an ordinance that grants police the power to arrest people who sleep in public spaces and build encampments.

A few days ago, it was in the news that Los Angeles City and Los Angeles County will defy the governor's order; LA does not want people in encampments or who sleep in public, put in county jails.

We'll see how this plays out in the next several months, I guess.

If Bass sticks to it and SF changes, shes getting the boot. Not even a debate. Shes done. And a new mayor will come in and do it.
She ran on fixiing homeless and hasnt done what she said. Shes out anyway, but this is more of a nail in the coffin. She might even get recalled over it.

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by LA21st

If Bass sticks to it and SF changes, shes getting the boot. Not even a debate. Shes done. And a new mayor will come in and do it.
She ran on fixiing homeless and hasnt done what she said. Shes out anyway, but this is more of a nail in the coffin. She might even get recalled over it.

Well, coincidentally, about a month ago, it was reported that LA County's homeless population decreased slightly (LA sees first double-digit decrease in street homelessness in at least 9 years).

And Los Angeles County law enforcement has support of this policy. Per LA County Sheriff Robert Luna, his agency "will only detain people who commit a crime, not simply for living in an encampment. Being homeless is not a crime, and we will maintain our focus on criminal behavior rather than an individual’s status."

Again, we'll see how this plays out in the next several months.