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  #901  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2024, 1:36 AM
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  #902  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2024, 7:54 PM
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I've long felt something was off with the Rose Quarter scope and budget, and I've finally put my finger on it. I'm in favor of adding auxiliary lanes and capping the freeway. But ODOT is going about it in the most unnecessarily expensive way possible: They're choosing to build a 250 foot wide cover when a 110 foot wide cover would do.

110 feet is a standard width for a six-lane freeway. It allows for six standard 12-foot lanes, two standard 10 foot outer shoulders, two standard 4 foot inner shoulders, and a 10 foot median. For example, I-5 at Alberta St. is 6 lanes and is 110 feet wide. Capping a 110-foot wide freeway would require two fairly standard 55-foot spans. So why 250 feet? Where does the extra 140 feet of width come from?

First there is ODOT's decision to span the main highway lanes with 75-foot spans rather than 55-foot spans. This is a significant decision with huge cost implications. The required depth of a structural beam is proportional to its length squared, so a girder spanning 75 feet must be 1.86 times deeper than a girder spanning 55 feet. The result is that ODOT is planning to install girders that are about 2 feet deeper than the current girders (which have spans in the 50-60 foot range). This requires lowering the entire freeway by about 2 feet--a hugely expensive project. (see: https://www.i5rosequarter.org/media/...tion_final.pdf)

So why 75 foot spans when 55 foot spans would do? The obvious answer is that ODOT is building in flexibility to widen the highway to 8 lanes in the future. (Credit to Joe Cortright for being the first to notice the extra width). But ODOT has never admitted that accommodating 8 lanes is part of the project scope, likely because they have no mandate for widening the highway to 8 lanes. Now, there may be a case to be made for building in some flexibility for future possible configurations. BUT: 1) ODOT should actually explicitly make that case to the public and quantify how much it adds to the project budget, and 2) there are ways to accommodate four lanes without blowing up a project budget. For example, 60-foot spans would allow for a possible future configuration with four standard lanes and nonstandard shoulders. Nonstandard shoulders are commonly used to save money in bridges and tunnels. I-93 through Boston, for example, has no shoulders at all. The Marquam Bridge has four lanes and nonstandard shoulders.

The takeaway is this: ODOT is adding hundreds of millions of dollars to the project budget to ensure the provision of standard shoulders in a future lane configuration for which ODOT has no mandate and that might never be implemented.

What about the extra 100 feet of width? This comes from two 50 foot spans adjacent to the main spans which each cover two exit/entrance lanes. As noted in my previous post, having these lanes split from the highway north of the cover is entirely feasible and would make this extra 100 feet of cover unnecessary. But the ramp locations were set in 2012, prior to the addition of the cover scope. The effect of the ramp locations on the cost of the cover has never (apparently) been considered.

The net result is that ODOT is building a 250-foot wide cover over twelve lanes of traffic when they could be building a 110-foot wide cover over six lanes of traffic. The latter would accomplish the project goal of adding auxiliary lanes, would make lowering the freeway unnecessary, and would massively reduce the cost of the cover.

It's hard to overstate the cumulative effect of these design decisions. They have probably added close to $1B to the project budget. All due to bureaucratic inertia, an inability to reconsider previously made decisions when costs go up, and a questionable (and very expensive) decision made far from the public eye to design for eight lanes instead of six.

I honestly think this should be an Oregonian investigation. $1B is a lot of money.
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  #903  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2024, 8:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Jakz View Post
I've long felt something was off with the Rose Quarter scope and budget, and I've finally put my finger on it. I'm in favor of adding auxiliary lanes and capping the freeway. But ODOT is going about it in the most unnecessarily expensive way possible: They're choosing to build a 250 foot wide cover when a 110 foot wide cover would do.

110 feet is a standard width for a six-lane freeway. It allows for six standard 12-foot lanes, two standard 10 foot outer shoulders, two standard 4 foot inner shoulders, and a 10 foot median. For example, I-5 at Alberta St. is 6 lanes and is 110 feet wide. Capping a 110-foot wide freeway would require two fairly standard 55-foot spans. So why 250 feet? Where does the extra 140 feet of width come from?

First there is ODOT's decision to span the main highway lanes with 75-foot spans rather than 55-foot spans. This is a significant decision with huge cost implications. The required depth of a structural beam is proportional to its length squared, so a girder spanning 75 feet must be 1.86 times deeper than a girder spanning 55 feet. The result is that ODOT is planning to install girders that are about 2 feet deeper than the current girders (which have spans in the 50-60 foot range). This requires lowering the entire freeway by about 2 feet--a hugely expensive project. (see: https://www.i5rosequarter.org/media/...tion_final.pdf)

So why 75 foot spans when 55 foot spans would do? The obvious answer is that ODOT is building in flexibility to widen the highway to 8 lanes in the future. (Credit to Joe Cortright for being the first to notice the extra width). But ODOT has never admitted that accommodating 8 lanes is part of the project scope, likely because they have no mandate for widening the highway to 8 lanes. Now, there may be a case to be made for building in some flexibility for future possible configurations. BUT: 1) ODOT should actually explicitly make that case to the public and quantify how much it adds to the project budget, and 2) there are ways to accommodate four lanes without blowing up a project budget. For example, 60-foot spans would allow for a possible future configuration with four standard lanes and nonstandard shoulders. Nonstandard shoulders are commonly used to save money in bridges and tunnels. I-93 through Boston, for example, has no shoulders at all. The Marquam Bridge has four lanes and nonstandard shoulders.

The takeaway is this: ODOT is adding hundreds of millions of dollars to the project budget to ensure the provision of standard shoulders in a future lane configuration for which ODOT has no mandate and that might never be implemented.

What about the extra 100 feet of width? This comes from two 50 foot spans adjacent to the main spans which each cover two exit/entrance lanes. As noted in my previous post, having these lanes split from the highway north of the cover is entirely feasible and would make this extra 100 feet of cover unnecessary. But the ramp locations were set in 2012, prior to the addition of the cover scope. The effect of the ramp locations on the cost of the cover has never (apparently) been considered.

The net result is that ODOT is building a 250-foot wide cover over twelve lanes of traffic when they could be building a 110-foot wide cover over six lanes of traffic. The latter would accomplish the project goal of adding auxiliary lanes, would make lowering the freeway unnecessary, and would massively reduce the cost of the cover.

It's hard to overstate the cumulative effect of these design decisions. They have probably added close to $1B to the project budget. All due to bureaucratic inertia, an inability to reconsider previously made decisions when costs go up, and a questionable (and very expensive) decision made far from the public eye to design for eight lanes instead of six.

I honestly think this should be an Oregonian investigation. $1B is a lot of money.

I'm pretty sure I saw your argument on an anti-freeway website recently... but anyway, you have to realize that 110ft might work in an area where it is only 6 total lanes w/shoulders and no entry/exit lanes for the entire length of the cover. That is definitely not the case here. Most of the on/off ramps in that area need to be 2 lanes wide. Have those at any given point of this capped area on both sides, you're at 10 lanes + shoulders. They aren't through lanes that do it. Go to the link in your post and scroll down to page 17 where you'll see areas that are wider and areas that are narrower.
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  #904  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2024, 8:57 PM
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Originally Posted by uncommon.name View Post
I'm pretty sure I saw your argument on an anti-freeway website recently... but anyway, you have to realize that 110ft might work in an area where it is only 6 total lanes w/shoulders and no entry/exit lanes for the entire length of the cover. That is definitely not the case here. Most of the on/off ramps in that area need to be 2 lanes wide. Have those at any given point of this capped area on both sides, you're at 10 lanes + shoulders. They aren't through lanes that do it. Go to the link in your post and scroll down to page 17 where you'll see areas that are wider and areas that are narrower.
But ODOT could be building the 6-lane, no-exit configuration of the highway cover if the exit ramps were shifted north, braiding with the I-405 ramps (relatively straightforward) and splitting from the freeway north of the cover. They'd connect to the local street grid around the current intersection of Hancock and Gantenbein. That's the logical way to build a highway cover: Connect the ramps before/after the cover so the cover doesn't have to span over the ramps. I'm not anti-freeway, just against building the project in a stupidly expensive way. And ODOT's lack of forthrightness about the 6/8 lanes and the major cost implications is not cool.
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  #905  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2024, 6:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Jakz View Post
I've long felt something was off with the Rose Quarter scope and budget, and I've finally put my finger on it. I'm in favor of adding auxiliary lanes and capping the freeway. But ODOT is going about it in the most unnecessarily expensive way possible: They're choosing to build a 250 foot wide cover when a 110 foot wide cover would do.

110 feet is a standard width for a six-lane freeway. It allows for six standard 12-foot lanes, two standard 10 foot outer shoulders, two standard 4 foot inner shoulders, and a 10 foot median. For example, I-5 at Alberta St. is 6 lanes and is 110 feet wide. Capping a 110-foot wide freeway would require two fairly standard 55-foot spans. So why 250 feet? Where does the extra 140 feet of width come from?

First there is ODOT's decision to span the main highway lanes with 75-foot spans rather than 55-foot spans. This is a significant decision with huge cost implications. The required depth of a structural beam is proportional to its length squared, so a girder spanning 75 feet must be 1.86 times deeper than a girder spanning 55 feet. The result is that ODOT is planning to install girders that are about 2 feet deeper than the current girders (which have spans in the 50-60 foot range). This requires lowering the entire freeway by about 2 feet--a hugely expensive project. (see: https://www.i5rosequarter.org/media/...tion_final.pdf)

So why 75 foot spans when 55 foot spans would do? The obvious answer is that ODOT is building in flexibility to widen the highway to 8 lanes in the future. (Credit to Joe Cortright for being the first to notice the extra width). But ODOT has never admitted that accommodating 8 lanes is part of the project scope, likely because they have no mandate for widening the highway to 8 lanes. Now, there may be a case to be made for building in some flexibility for future possible configurations. BUT: 1) ODOT should actually explicitly make that case to the public and quantify how much it adds to the project budget, and 2) there are ways to accommodate four lanes without blowing up a project budget. For example, 60-foot spans would allow for a possible future configuration with four standard lanes and nonstandard shoulders. Nonstandard shoulders are commonly used to save money in bridges and tunnels. I-93 through Boston, for example, has no shoulders at all. The Marquam Bridge has four lanes and nonstandard shoulders.

The takeaway is this: ODOT is adding hundreds of millions of dollars to the project budget to ensure the provision of standard shoulders in a future lane configuration for which ODOT has no mandate and that might never be implemented.

What about the extra 100 feet of width? This comes from two 50 foot spans adjacent to the main spans which each cover two exit/entrance lanes. As noted in my previous post, having these lanes split from the highway north of the cover is entirely feasible and would make this extra 100 feet of cover unnecessary. But the ramp locations were set in 2012, prior to the addition of the cover scope. The effect of the ramp locations on the cost of the cover has never (apparently) been considered.

The net result is that ODOT is building a 250-foot wide cover over twelve lanes of traffic when they could be building a 110-foot wide cover over six lanes of traffic. The latter would accomplish the project goal of adding auxiliary lanes, would make lowering the freeway unnecessary, and would massively reduce the cost of the cover.

It's hard to overstate the cumulative effect of these design decisions. They have probably added close to $1B to the project budget. All due to bureaucratic inertia, an inability to reconsider previously made decisions when costs go up, and a questionable (and very expensive) decision made far from the public eye to design for eight lanes instead of six.

I honestly think this should be an Oregonian investigation. $1B is a lot of money.
The cost of having buildable caps above the freeway is a big chunk of that $1 billion price tag.
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  #906  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2024, 7:46 PM
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The grain terminal next to Moda Center is up for sale for $6.5 million. It was last sold in 2019 to a company that’s been illegally using it for tire scrap recycling. Sorry I’m on my phone at work and don’t know how to post links without my laptop, haha. But Portland Business Journal and Oregonian both have story. Such potential here, the real estate company is really pushing for a connection to the Albina redevelopment.. fingers crossed! I’ve been wanting to see this thing demolished forever.
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  #907  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2024, 10:52 PM
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The grain terminal next to Moda Center is up for sale for $6.5 million. It was last sold in 2019 to a company that’s been illegally using it for tire scrap recycling. Sorry I’m on my phone at work and don’t know how to post links without my laptop, haha. But Portland Business Journal and Oregonian both have story. Such potential here, the real estate company is really pushing for a connection to the Albina redevelopment.. fingers crossed! I’ve been wanting to see this thing demolished forever.
I agree that this could be a golden opportunity to move ahead with an active riverfront development that connects to the Rose Quarter and the Eastbank Esplanade. Here is a link to The Oregonian article:

https://www.oregonlive.com/business/...2-4c0764459f87
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  #908  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2024, 2:25 PM
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I agree that this could be a golden opportunity to move ahead with an active riverfront development that connects to the Rose Quarter and the Eastbank Esplanade. Here is a link to The Oregonian article:

https://www.oregonlive.com/business/...2-4c0764459f87
One hand you have a development opportunity, on the other, where would you place all those giant billboards with Dame on them?

I do kind like the look of the existing structure, especially next to the Steel Bridge. I grew up in Buffalo and have an affinity for giant grain silos as part of a city's historic backdrop. Not great for adaptive reuse though....
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  #909  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2024, 4:07 PM
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A few quotes from the PBJ article:

High-profile Portland waterfront property with complex history listed for $6.5M

By Christopher Bjorke – Digital Producer/Associate Editor, Portland Business Journal
Jul 26, 2024

img1231 by Ryan Miller, on Flickr

Quote:
A 3-acre site with views of downtown Portland and a complex history is for sale on the Willamette River for $6.5 million.

The Louis Dreyfus Co. grain terminal at 900 N. Thunderbird Way, just north of the east end of the Steel Bridge, is listed by broker Kidder Mathews.


"This property has tremendous future upside potential as a redevelopment for mixed-use/residential with connectivity to The Rose Quarter, adjacency to light rail and with outstanding views of the Portland skyline and Willamette River," according to Kidder Mathews' listing of the property.

"This property offers these amazing views and also sits next to the Moda Center which provides mass transit (light rail), restaurants, hotels and amenities nearby within walking distance."

The listing was tweeted late Thursday by Portland architect and real estate observer Iain MacKenzie.

Among the features highlighted in the property listing are one of the city's few deepwater docks, Opportunity Zone status, proximity to the Albina Vision Trust's planned redevelopment of the historic neighborhood and Portland's largest billboard on the grain silos, which shut down in 2019.

The $6.5 million asking price is more than twice what it last sold for in 2021, when it was acquired by Castle Arden LLC for $2.9 million, according to property records.

Since its purchase, Castle Arden and a related company Castle Tire used the site as storage for a tire scrap recycling and disposal operation. The Oregon Department of Environment issued an enforcement action against the companies in July 2023 for operating a waste tire storage site without a permit, which included as $13,600 penalty. The action's status appears to be pending.
https://www.bizjournals.com/portland...-for-sale.html
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  #910  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2024, 4:14 PM
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This shot is 10 years old -- does anyone know if this lot is still there and is part of the property?

Screen Shot 2024-07-28 at 9.10.17 AM by Ryan Miller, on Flickr
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  #911  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2024, 8:46 PM
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It will be very interesting to see what can be done with this site with it's location being isolated across the freight railways.
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  #912  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2024, 9:36 PM
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It will be very interesting to see what can be done with this site with it's location being isolated across the freight railways.
What we are talking about here is the vision of a riverfront site spanning from the Steel Bridge to the Broadway Bridge. It comprises a stretch of surface parking lots, rail tracks, and the massive Louis Dreyfus grain facility. It cries out for a grand vision, a master plan for an active riverfront that connects to the Rose Quarter.

Some time ago I recall a proposal to make that connection over N. Interstate Avenue from the Coliseum, taking advantage of its relative high elevation over the roadway. The wide spanning structure would start at grade at the Coliseum and ramp or step down to grade at the parking lots along the riverfront. Think of Seattle's Olympic Sculpture Park that spans over Elliott Avenue and a set of rail tracks.

Our stretch of riverfront land should be in the hands of Portland Prosper or one visionary development company rather than multiple property owners who might develop each parcel with no particular overall vision.
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  #913  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2024, 12:01 AM
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Originally Posted by DMH View Post
What we are talking about here is the vision of a riverfront site spanning from the Steel Bridge to the Broadway Bridge. It comprises a stretch of surface parking lots, rail tracks, and the massive Louis Dreyfus grain facility. It cries out for a grand vision, a master plan for an active riverfront that connects to the Rose Quarter.

Some time ago I recall a proposal to make that connection over N. Interstate Avenue from the Coliseum, taking advantage of its relative high elevation over the roadway. The wide spanning structure would start at grade at the Coliseum and ramp or step down to grade at the parking lots along the riverfront. Think of Seattle's Olympic Sculpture Park that spans over Elliott Avenue and a set of rail tracks.

Our stretch of riverfront land should be in the hands of Portland Prosper or one visionary development company rather than multiple property owners who might develop each parcel with no particular overall vision.
Has anyone proposed this before? Like are their concept drawings I can see? That would be amazing if something like that happened.
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  #914  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2024, 2:51 PM
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Agreed that Portland Prosper should take the lead. Portland needs to secure the opportunities both above and below the ground. TriMet is considering a tunnel under the river. Oregon and Washington are considering a high speed rail line connecting Portland to Vancouver BC. Max Yellow, Red, Blue and Green lines converge here. Portland should control the property with an eye toward a major, underground rail station which allows connections between our Max lines and our neighbors to the north. One central station below ground developed by Tri-Met and ODOT with Portland Prosper in the lead to usher regional development above.
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  #915  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2024, 7:55 PM
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Quote:
Trail Blazers, Albina Vision Trust team up for redevelopment of historic Portland neighborhood



Nonprofit organization Albina Vision Trust and the NBA’s Portland Trail Blazers are teaming up to create the Albina Rose Alliance, a partnership that marks a key milestone to reestablish the Lower Albina neighborhood as a hub for Portland’s Black community.

The Trail Blazers are a key participant in this effort as a major property owner in the neighborhood now known as the Rose Quarter. AVT’s goal is to reconnect the 94-acre neighborhood that was isolated by the construction of Interstate 5 and the Memorial Coliseum.

This new alliance will work across four strategic areas, according to the two groups. These are:
  • A joint development strategy for Lower Albina, including the Rose Quarter.
  • Joint storytelling and communications.
  • Joint legislative strategy and advocacy.
  • Joint celebration of community through events and gatherings.
...continues at the Portland Business Journal ($).
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  #916  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2024, 7:56 PM
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This shot is 10 years old -- does anyone know if this lot is still there and is part of the property?

Screen Shot 2024-07-28 at 9.10.17 AM by Ryan Miller, on Flickr
That parking lot is technically public right-of-way, where the Right 2 Dream Too village is currently located.
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  #917  
Old Posted Jul 31, 2024, 12:17 AM
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I believe that the streetcar tracks leading to the original Steel Bridge are partially exposed in –or possibly next to– that parking lot/public ROW. I've long thought that it would make a nice history-illuminating parklet if they fully uncovered the tracks and added a plaque. Nice vantage point, too. I wouldn't do it until we've (cough) fixed the homeless crisis, though.
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  #918  
Old Posted Jul 31, 2024, 8:23 PM
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A Coalition for Redevelopment

Now we have confirmation of a great coalition to redevelop lower Albina, Rose Quarter, and the riverfront. What a great opportunity to repair the damage of past mistakes.

https://www.oregonlive.com/blazers/2...9-45191c7ee51d.
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  #919  
Old Posted Jul 31, 2024, 10:13 PM
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Now we have confirmation of a great coalition to redevelop lower Albina, Rose Quarter, and the riverfront. What a great opportunity to repair the damage of past mistakes.

https://www.oregonlive.com/blazers/2...9-45191c7ee51d.
I'm thrilled that they outlined the 94 acres of prime waterfront as part of the vision. Joining Albina over the freeway cap and the Rose Quarter into a live-work-play district, will be huge. The Rose Quarter can mean so much more and really amplify as an entertainment district blended with the cultural significant Albina district. I'm excited to see this come to fruition.
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  #920  
Old Posted Aug 8, 2024, 7:51 PM
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Quote:
City agrees to buy Moda Center, land for $7.13 million, plans ‘major renovation’



PORTLAND, Ore. (KOIN) — The Portland City Council unanimously approved the city’s purchase of the Moda Center, and a parcel of land located within the Moda Center for $7.13 million at Wednesday’s city council meeting.

The purchase is part of a five-year bridge agreement between the City of Portland and Rip City Management, LLC — the “sister company” of the Portland Trail Blazers. Rip City Management and the Portland Trail Blazers are both owned by the estate of Paul G. Allen.

Under the arena’s new operating lease, the city has agreed to match the funding that the Blazers organization puts toward the renovation of the Moda Center. Per the agreement, the city’s contribution can not exceed the revenue it collects from ticket and parking fees generated by Blazers home games during the previous fiscal year. The city states that it will not use any other funds to pay for Moda Center renovations.

Nearly 30 years old, the Moda Center is the oldest NBA arena to not have undergone a major renovation, the city says. The pledge of public funds incentivized the Blazers organization to sign a five-year agreement that will keep the Blazers in Portland through 2030. With the promise of “major renovations” coming to the Moda Center, the Blazers and the city are working on a long-term agreement that would keep the team in Portland for 20 or more years.

“Rip City Management, LLC intends to seek public funding from sources in addition to the [City of Portland] to provide the public financial support necessary for a long-term agreement and needed major renovation,” the emergency ordinance reads.
...continues at KOIN.
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