[Saint John] Port Development

[FromMaine]

Anyone hear scuttlebutt on Americold?

[Ottawa]

Originally Posted by FromMaine

Anyone hear scuttlebutt on Americold?

Nothing conclusive yet. The fed websites show their status as:

Latest update
The assessment is in progress.

In case anybody doesn't have these sites yet:
https://iaac-aeic.gc.ca/050/evaluati...?culture=en-CA

https://lobbycanada.gc.ca/app/secure...=947673&blnk=1

They are the impact assessment which is in progress, and the monthly reports that the Americold/Nova Cold Logistics lobbyist submits. They are just arranging meetings with various government depts. No real updates on when this is all going to be a go, so just holding tight.

[KnoxfordGuy]

When is the third set of cranes coming to the port? That's a thing right? I'm not crazy? Haha

[Ottawa]

Originally Posted by KnoxfordGuy

When is the third set of cranes coming to the port? That's a thing right? I'm not crazy? Haha

Well, I don't have a direct line to DP World, Port Saint John, or anybody else directly involved in the procurement of capital equipment so take my comment for what it's worth.

I expect the need for more cranes is not immediate because of many conditions, but they all sum up to be that, even if the port does 200K TEUs in 2024, the current cranes will not be stressed to handle it.

I expect to find out when the cranes are arriving when blue and white cranes are being loaded onto transport vessels at Prince Rupert.

200K is only 25% toward their goal of 800K. I would dare to say DPW have a plan on exactly when they want to add cranes to the mix, but I'm sure there are other waypoints that need to be met first. Maybe they want to get to 30, 40, or 50% of their stated goal first. Maybe more than that. The only thing I am aware of was that they needed 6-7 cranes as well as equipment and berth configurations to meet the 800K goal.

They also need a transportation network that is running like a well oiled machine.

This will all happen in time. I wish it was already done, but we learn most in the journey.

Cranes aren't going to get them to their goal all by themselves. They need to manage the business properly at all times, and under all circumstances.

[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by Ottawa

Well, I don't have a direct line to DP World, Port Saint John, or anybody else directly involved in the procurement of capital equipment so take my comment for what it's worth.

I expect the need for more cranes is not immediate because of many conditions, but they all sum up to be that, even if the port does 200K TEUs in 2024, the current cranes will not be stressed to handle it.

I expect to find out when the cranes are arriving when blue and white cranes are being loaded onto transport vessels at Prince Rupert.

200K is only 25% toward their goal of 800K. I would dare to say DPW have a plan on exactly when they want to add cranes to the mix, but I'm sure there are other waypoints that need to be met first. Maybe they want to get to 30, 40, or 50% of their stated goal first. Maybe more than that. The only thing I am aware of was that they needed 6-7 cranes as well as equipment and berth configurations to meet the 800K goal.

They also need a transportation network that is running like a well oiled machine.

This will all happen in time. I wish it was already done, but we learn most in the journey.

Cranes aren't going to get them to their goal all by themselves. They need to manage the business properly at all times, and under all circumstances.

This jives with what I heard. Six or seven is the ultimate end-goal, but not needed or seriously planned yet. There's still a lot of work going on related to the infilled slips. A couple warehouses might come down. There's rail improvements ongoing and coming, including a rumour of twinning the tracks past Simms Corner. No idea if that's legit. There is going to be a rail spur to the Crosby's tanks (and I assume Americold). I'm sure the AIM site is on DP's radar now too.

[darkharbour]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

This jives with what I heard. Six or seven is the ultimate end-goal, but not needed or seriously planned yet. There's still a lot of work going on related to the infilled slips. A couple warehouses might come down. There's rail improvements ongoing and coming, including a rumour of twinning the tracks past Simms Corner. No idea if that's legit. There is going to be a rail spur to the Crosby's tanks (and I assume Americold). I'm sure the AIM site is on DP's radar now too.

Simms Corner is going to be a big bottleneck for the city and the port unless everyone coordinates to separate the at-grade crossing. The traffic models show 20 minute delays for road traffic multiple times per day as the container traffic ramps up, which is not acceptable for such a key corridor through the city and to one of only two harbour crossings.

Proceeding with the tunneled rail crossing would really smooth traffic flow and allow for much more efficient rail traffic for our growing port.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by darkharbour

Simms Corner is going to be a big bottleneck for the city and the port unless everyone coordinates to separate the at-grade crossing. The traffic models show 20 minute delays for road traffic multiple times per day as the container traffic ramps up, which is not acceptable for such a key corridor through the city and to one of only two harbour crossings.

Proceeding with the tunneled rail crossing would really smooth traffic flow and allow for much more efficient rail traffic for our growing port.

Great place to build a huge new bridge and/or new viaduct. I'm not confident Saint John is ready for traffic circles, nor am I convinced a traffic circle would solve the issue, as many have claimed it would.

[CharlotteSJ]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

Great place to build a huge new bridge and/or new viaduct. I'm not confident Saint John is ready for traffic circles, nor am I convinced a traffic circle would solve the issue, as many have claimed it would.

I'll guess a train tunnel with a big roundabout above it, is the most feasible scenario, given the factors in play.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by CharlotteSJ

I'll guess a train tunnel with a big roundabout above it, is the most feasible scenario, given the factors in play.

A train tunnel? From where to where?

[adamuptownsj]

Presumably starting somewhere behind the museum storage facility Lancaster to west of Mill, maybe ~250m in length? I know nothing about trains and gradients but this would have to be super deep as double stacked trains come through all the time. You'd probably have to move the substation north of the mall too. This would also shut down the existing rail line AND Simms Corner while under construction. It would have to be a cut and cover operation. What's underground here for water and sewer?

Train issue aside, I don't believe a roundabout is really necessary here. Traffic flows reasonably well as much as people complain about it-- most traffic runs Main to Bridge in them morning and the opposite way at night. If you're going to change it, a normal 4-way intersection, opening Fairville Boulevard to two-way traffic, would likely suffice. A roundabout would be great for westbound traffic but eastbound, not so much. Better signage, a raised median with curbs at the west end of Lancaster, and other cheap-ish improvements should be considered anyway.

[FromMaine]

I am hearing a noticable uptick in container and rail traffic will occur around the end of September.

It is surprising to me that NBSR shuttles containers to and from Bay Shore to their primary yard at Dever Road. What would make more sense is to originate a container train at Bay Shore and run it through at twlight hours when there is the least amount of traffic at Simms Corner.... at least that is how it would appear from my couch.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

Train issue aside, I don't believe a roundabout is really necessary here. Traffic flows reasonably well as much as people complain about it-- most traffic runs Main to Bridge in them morning and the opposite way at night. If you're going to change it, a normal 4-way intersection, opening Fairville Boulevard to two-way traffic, would likely suffice. A roundabout would be great for westbound traffic but eastbound, not so much. Better signage, a raised median with curbs at the west end of Lancaster, and other cheap-ish improvements should be considered anyway.

As an out of towner who does not navigate this intersection often, all I can say is that Simm's Corner gives me the willeys. I'm sure locals know the intersection well enough to understand it's eccentricities.

[Sabien]

Originally Posted by FromMaine

I am hearing a noticable uptick in container and rail traffic will occur around the end of September.

It is surprising to me that NBSR shuttles containers to and from Bay Shore to their primary yard at Dever Road. What would make more sense is to originate a container train at Bay Shore and run it through at twlight hours when there is the least amount of traffic at Simms Corner.... at least that is how it would appear from my couch.

I now live very close to these tracks (my sons house) and I can confirm that they already are doing the shuttling at around 1:30am, 3:30 am, 5:00am. Thank god they recently silenced the horns at the 2 crossings nearby. Although sometimes I can still hear the horns as they approach Simm corner during the day if I have a window open. Honestly it's not as bad as I thought it would be when I first moved here. Now that the horns are silenced I never hear a thing after I fall asleep.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

As an out of towner who does not navigate this intersection often, all I can say is that Simm's Corner gives me the willeys. I'm sure locals know the intersection well enough to understand it's eccentricities.

It’s definitely way more daunting than it needs to be. With the expectations for growth at the port, the federal and provincial governments should be willing to invest in some serious infrastructure upgrades to facilitate both rail and truck traffic in and out of Port Saint John.

[bridgeoftea]

Originally Posted by Sabien

I now live very close to these tracks (my sons house) and I can confirm that they already are doing the shuttling at around 1:30am, 3:30 am, 5:00am. Thank god they recently silenced the horns at the 2 crossings nearby. Although sometimes I can still hear the horns as they approach Simm corner during the day if I have a window open. Honestly it's not as bad as I thought it would be when I first moved here. Now that the horns are silenced I never hear a thing after I fall asleep.

Used to live near the sand cove road crossing and 90% of the trains would keep their horns silent in the small hours of the night. Except one engineer (or at least that's what it felt like) who always gave the full 3 blasts.

[darkharbour]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

It’s definitely way more daunting than it needs to be. With the expectations for growth at the port, the federal and provincial governments should be willing to invest in some serious infrastructure upgrades to facilitate both rail and truck traffic in and out of Port Saint John.

Ideally it would be the rail and shipping operators footing a large portion of the bill.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by darkharbour

Ideally it would be the rail and shipping operators footing a large portion of the bill.

Increased rail traffic is certainly having an impact on Simms Corner. I was heading east from Lancaster Ave the other day and westbound traffic was backed up onto the Falls bridge due to a train heading towards the port.(looked to be mostly empty container carrier cars)

[PSJ harbour]

I think you will see two more cranes in the Fall time to the new berth. DP wants to be ready for when Maersk and Hapag confirm and settle an alliance called the Gemini Alliance. It’s suppose to commence in February I believe, but an increased cargo may begin sooner in Fall. Cranes may be coming from New Jersey now, likely little taller than the two already at Rodney North. Expect more equipment and man power in near future, I believe the boom will hit sooner than later! Hopefully NB Southern will be ready as well, because CP will be hauling more than NB Southern can chew at the moment. Look out

[PSJ harbour]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

As an out of towner who does not navigate this intersection often, all I can say is that Simm's Corner gives me the willeys. I'm sure locals know the intersection well enough to understand it's eccentricities.

I’ve always closed my eyes and went at the stop signs there. Not sure what everyone else does!

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by PSJ harbour

I think you will see two more cranes in the Fall time to the new berth. DP wants to be ready for when Maersk and Hapag confirm and settle an alliance called the Gemini Alliance. It’s suppose to commence in February I believe, but an increased cargo may begin sooner in Fall. Cranes may be coming from New Jersey now, likely little taller than the two already at Rodney North. Expect more equipment and man power in near future, I believe the boom will hit sooner than later! Hopefully NB Southern will be ready as well, because CP will be hauling more than NB Southern can chew at the moment. Look out

So to confirm, taller than the newest cranes? Will Gemini bring in more ship visits, or just increased cargo volumes on current ships? Will Gemini take us to 250,000 + teu’s?