[Moncton] Downtown Developments

[David_99]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Looking at this aerial, I realized that I had never before really appreciated the close relationship of the vacant lot where the Chateau a Pape restaurant had been (before it burned down) and the adjacent Codiac RCMP headquarters.

Since the detachment will be decamping to their new building on Albert Street next year, this could free up a large contiguous bit of land for a substantial development. Just think if these two parcels could be combined! There is enough room here for two (if not three) towers on a common podium, with river frontage, and adjacent to one of the most prominent intersections in the city (Main & Assumption).

It's almost too perfect.

I wonder if Lafford would be interested???

I know I'm probably in the minority here, but I've always felt that whole corner, combined with the adjacent Bore Park, would be a fantastic Downtown Moncton Gardens (a la Halifax Public Garden). We already have so much wasted land and parking lots ready to be redeveloped into high rises. It would be nice to have the foresight and take advantage of the neighboring park to create a large, peaceful green area to enhance the new Urban living we're trying to create downtown. Yes we have some ball fields but our river is brown. The riverfront isn't very attractive, basically a thin walking trail. We don't have a nice ocean or blue river to fall back on. No one has ever described downtown Moncton of being "beautiful". Maybe it's my age catching up with me, but I just think we'll someday regret being left with such a tiny downtown Park.

[josh_cat_eyes]

Originally Posted by benvui

It's too bad that there wasn't some sort of property tax equation that would reduce the amount of tax based on the density of the parking. This might provided some incentive for developer to put in garages and buildings. For instance, if you had say a parking density of 300 cars per acre you pay a higher rate than if you had 1000 cars/acre. This might incentivize developers to increase density and not maintain surface parking.
They would probably try and pass the cost on to the people leasing the parking, but there would be pain and hopefully lost business which would make a garage look more appealing or selling the land to someone who would develop it.

This sounds like it could be a similar idea to a Land Value Tax as promoted by Henry George. For those of you not aware what this concept is, here is a general definition:
A land value tax (LVT) is a method of assessing property taxes that only considers the value of the land itself and related improvements, and not the structures built on the land.

Land downtown close to other amenities is worth more, so is taxed higher. This in turn promotes the incentive for land owners to develop their land in the most efficient way possible (like not with parking lots). Perhaps this could something Moncton looks at to help encourage development downtown.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by David_99

I know I'm probably in the minority here, but I've always felt that whole corner, combined with the adjacent Bore Park, would be a fantastic Downtown Moncton Gardens (a la Halifax Public Garden). We already have so much wasted land and parking lots ready to be redeveloped into high rises. It would be nice to have the foresight and take advantage of the neighboring park to create a large, peaceful green area to enhance the new Urban living we're trying to create downtown. Yes we have some ball fields but our river is brown. The riverfront isn't very attractive, basically a thin walking trail. We don't have a nice ocean or blue river to fall back on. No one has ever described downtown Moncton of being "beautiful". Maybe it's my age catching up with me, but I just think we'll someday regret being left with such a tiny downtown Park.

Your point of view is a valid one.

If both the RCMP and old Chateau parcels could be combined, I think there would be room to both enhance the Treitz Haus and Bore View Park as well as to still provide a decently large amount of land for a significant mixed residential project.

Locate the parkland/public garden to the south, close to the riverfront trail, and do a better job of integrating the Treitz Haus to the garden and to Bore View Park. At the same time, maintain the land facing Assumption and Main for residential/commercial purposes including a couple of multistorey towers.

I think it could be done.

[adamuptownsj]

Thanks for that super cool map. Really helps us understand in a way pure text just doesn't.

Georgism finally rears its head on here! Interesting but unlikely; I've said a ton of times on the SJ threads that the province needs to raise assessments on vacant land in core areas to appropriate numbers, and cities need to raise the tax rate on said dramatically. You could even do this revenue-neutral-- see how much money jacking up tax on vacant land would free up, and reduce tax on residential and commercial by the difference. Not a good idea in rural areas, but in downtowns and suburbs absolutely. Something similar for vacant buildings (if not under active renovation with permits) would be good, too.

Heritage is so weird. I have tried to reach them for weeks about the beautiful brick building at 105 Albert being used for storage; no response by phone, email, or even letter.

[jonny golden]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Looking at this aerial, I realized that I had never before really appreciated the close relationship of the vacant lot where the Chateau a Pape restaurant had been (before it burned down) and the adjacent Codiac RCMP headquarters.

Since the detachment will be decamping to their new building on Albert Street next year, this could free up a large contiguous bit of land for a substantial development. Just think if these two parcels could be combined! There is enough room here for two (if not three) towers on a common podium, with river frontage, and adjacent to one of the most prominent intersections in the city (Main & Assumption).

It's almost too perfect.

I wonder if Lafford would be interested???

I remember us discussing this when the new RCMP station project was unfolding.

Looking at the map, combining these parcels would make a lot of sense. As is, the RCMP lot has an irregular shape, so adding that parking lot would tidy things up from a development standpoint.

Another player that would make a nice addition to the Moncton development scene is Killam Properties. One would think that they'd be aware how strong the Moncton residential market is. What if they've been observing Moncton, just waiting for the right opportunity to present itself? You couldn't ask for a much better location, and looking at their site, they're certainly capable of producing eye-catching developments.

Killam site:
https://killamreit.com/developments

[Seely32]

Ive always thought this lot would be ideal to improve density downtown. A curved building with great street facing interaction at or above 10 stories. This would create a much greater "now your downtown" feel while driving down Main or driving down assumption. It would close the block with Mechanic St.
Creating one of the few full canyon like downtown city blocks we would have.


Credit me.

[jonny golden]

I believe that the parking lot is used by employees in the Blue Cross Building. The picture appears to be taken during the work week.

MonctonRad's comment about the work from home trend vis-a-vis downtown parking can be demonstrated in that there is a lot of unused space in this lot. I clearly remember that pre covid, parking was a serious issue for Blue Cross - that lot was always packed. Remember their proposal for a parking lot on the land that's now the Three Sisters?

So with some ingenuity, this land could eventually be more that just another surface parking lot. I can't see it happening any time soon, but there could be some potential there.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by jonny golden

I believe that the parking lot is used by employees in the Blue Cross Building. The picture appears to be taken during the work week.

MonctonRad's comment about the work from home trend vis-a-vis downtown parking can be demonstrated in that there is a lot of unused space in this lot. I clearly remember that pre covid, parking was a serious issue for Blue Cross - that lot was always packed. Remember their proposal for a parking lot on the land that's now the Three Sisters?

So with some ingenuity, this land could eventually be more that just another surface parking lot. I can't see it happening any time soon, but there could be some potential there.

That lot is definitely begging for high density development. Something with ground level commercial/retail, upper level residential (or hotel) and underground parking.

The curved street frontage could make for an architecturally interesting building.

Add in a two tower complex on a common podium across the street on the (former) Codiac RCMP & Chateau a Pape site, and you definitely would be getting into the "urban canyon" that Seely32 was alluding to.

Especially westbound on Assumption, once you turn onto Assumption from Main, the canyon would hit you in the face, Then you slowly follow the curve to the west, and see Blue Cross, whatever Ashford has planned for Downing and the Law Courts, and then beyond, the Three Sisters and the Gateway Towers in the distance. Now that would be a truly special urban landscape.

[jonny golden]

If the stars aligned next year, we coild have as many as 4-5 under construction concurrently (Third Sister, at least one Gateway tower, the Infinity Tower and St. Bernard Place).

Interesting! Heritage toyed with redeveloping that building several years ago, but nothing ever happened. In light of all the development in the neighbourhood, the location is looking better all the time. And you can throw a rock from it and hit the Avenir Center.

It would be nice if they did something creative with it, but I won't hold my breath.

[new kid in town]

People on facebook saying the Infinity lawn has more beams driven to the ground, and the grass mowed?

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by new kid in town

People on facebook saying the Infinity lawn has more beams driven to the ground, and the grass mowed?

I saw that. I don't think there has been any more drilling. I imagine mowing the grass is pretty normal.

Don't expect anything happening at Infinity this year. Next spring perhaps.

I am however hopeful we might see some excavation at St. Bernard Place this fall. I have no insider information. Just a gut feeling.