Manitoba Highways

[Ozabald]

Originally Posted by FactaNV

Right on, they built a highway or two. I'd much rather that equalization go to hospitals, growing the economy (to get off equalization) or a litany of other things which are more important than shaving seconds off a commute. Last I checked Manitoba's economy (GDP) was almost $10000 CAD per capita larger than New Brunswick and that's even when they have easily accessible seaports for easy exports. Nevermind the fact that the rampant corruption in favour of the feudal lords of the Irving Group of Companies is hardly something desirable to emulate. I suppose we're doing something right.

The highway upgrades in NB were not for "shaving seconds off a commute". They were completed to recognize that NB is a hub province for Atlantic Canada for connections to the US and Central Canada. Similar rationale the MB government is now using to justify the upgrade to the Perimeter Highway in Winnipeg.

Yes, per capita GDP in MB is higher than NB (around $6200 difference using 2022 data). Still, MB's numbers are nothing to brag about as MB's per capita GDP is $15000 less than Newfoundland's and nearly $36,000 less than neighbouring Saskatchewan. Overall, MB's per capita GDP is 8.3% lower than the Canadian average.

Your comment begs the question where does the equalization money go? Manitoba received a 24% increase in equalization for 2024-25; now receiving $4.3B annually. It seems the funds are not being invested in infrastructure in MB for sure.

And since were are on a MB vs. NB comparison; how about a comparison of crime stats?

[bodaggin]

Here's a December 2023 animal crossing in Alberta for $17.5m. There were 6 bids. The $17m bid had problems. The highest bid was $23m. So a range of $17-23m. These animal crossings are 5 times wider than a 2-lane rural overpass like Carberry or Yellowhead (50m wide vs 8m wide). So yes, even with 1-mile of access roads, these rural 2-lane overpasses can be $15-25m, every day of the week, with competent management.

[bodaggin]

From the Carberry open house July 15. You have to stand in awe at the squandering. We need to clean house. On no planet does this cost $100m. These bean counters have lost their minds.

https://www.brandonsun.com/local/202...y-intersection

"The province has said that an interchange or overpass could also be built but that it’s seen as a long-term solution with a 20-year-plus timeline and a cost estimate of around $100 million."

[optimusREIM]

What a breathtaking waste of 12 million dollars.

[Winnipeg Grump]

Can't track it down (also, too lazy at the end of the week!), but fairly certain that Biff had broken out the bridge costs for the St. Mary's project at ~$25 M so, if that's the case, where is the other $75 million going on the Carberry overpass?

[bomberjet]

Rebuilding the entire highway and buying the land to do so. Fees, contingency up the ying yang.

I don't get why tehy cant just add the bridge and ramps like the example that was posted here somewhere of the US project.

[bomberjet]

This one. And it's more elaborate than a simple diamond interchange that would go in at PTH 5. Just add the bridge and ramps, leave the rest alone. Adjust the access roads as required.

Originally Posted by bomberjet

This is what they're doing for $27.5 million USD.

St. mary's includes large streches of highway reconstruction and side roads. That's why these projects cost so much.

I've been saying for years (decades?) that the province can just add the bridges and ramps and it would cost a lot less. but they do full highway reconstruction and grade widening too.

[Dengler Avenue]

It’s funny that you mention U.S.-52 & I-90.
I feel that the flyover ramp is long overdue.
The tricky part is to look at the entire roadway network in that area as a whole, though.
Whenever I wonder why the movement from I-90 East to U.S.-52 North isn’t free flowing, I just remember that the I-90 & U.S.-63 junction to the west, if upgraded, will take care of that.

Anyway, I digress.

[Kinguni]

Originally Posted by drew

What exactly did all of the work at Deacons accomplish? What was the intent?

2 turn lanes from NB 207 to WB 1 to improve traffic movement which is very heavy during the morning commute, as well as a dedicated left turn lane from SB 207 to EB 1 which isn't affected by rail traffic. Does nothing for traffic on 1, even adds a little to delays, but it speeds the movement of vehicles on 207. Some people in Lorette have been pushing for upgraded roads to connect directly from 207 to 59 using Mun Rd 53N, which is impassible when wet (soft mud).

[FactaNV]

Here's a little bit of a fun mystery that I'm hoping someone can help me with. I was out for a cruise and to find some mud to put my car in with my fiancée on the North side of the Winnipeg River East of Hwy 304. We ended up on a road called Broadlands Rd and crossed the Moskwa River (which is gorgeous btw). As we headed down we crossed the Great Canadian Trail near North Coca Cola Creek and to our surprise, the bridge was missing. On Google maps Broadlands Rd continues East all the way to Great Falls but the bridge was non-existent over the creek. There were hydro lines going going over it but nothing else. Does anyone know the answer to why a bridge disappeared, or did it ever exist. Long shot here but kinda fun. Links are to Imgur uploads from Google maps showing the area. https://imgur.com/a/jOBYNBI
https://imgur.com/iuhr7UC

[zalf]

https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=1...7410/-96.00029

OpenStreetMap does not show a bridge at that site, and nothing in the edit history suggests there was one mapped there before.

[FactaNV]

Originally Posted by zalf

https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=1...7410/-96.00029

OpenStreetMap does not show a bridge at that site, and nothing in the edit history suggests there was one mapped there before.

Interesting. What Open street doesn't show is the contiguous cutline along the road in both sides of the creek. Maybe a hydro pontoon bridge or some other temporary structure like a Bailey bridge once upon a time?

[bodaggin]

This is a Wirtgen 2200CR Cold-In-Place asphalt recycler. It's a single unit train that grinds up 3-5" of the old road, and lays it back down as new road.

Production rates push 500 meters to 2km per HOUR.

Below that is what the full train looks like. The recycler is hooked to a bitumen truck and a water truck in front. And if a cement/lime additive is needed, they drop spread it in front of the grinding house.

All in all you get ~4 workers on the recycler, 2 trucks, and some rollers behind, and you've got a new road. Insanely efficient. No material hauling. The only thing you haul is the oil and water, and the thin seal coat on top (slurry, thin hot mix, chip seal, etc). I don't think MB does cold-in-place recycling. At least not this efficient. USA, Ontario, and Alberta do it. But correct me.

Fast is cheap. Fast is fast. Recycling is greener.

Video: https://youtu.be/Zprtd38xfqQ?si=3rWrUizx19Kd1fEz&t=27 (It chooches)

[zalf]

Have you considered making a FIPPA request to see if the province has considered it internally?

Don't fixate on a particular make and model, because they'll Ctrl-F their email archives for that exact string and if it doesn't come up, then that's where the enquiry ends. Searching more generically for "in-place asphalt recyclers" might yield better results.

[Carboy15]

https://imgur.com/a/HsIaGwX

I understand I have brought up the topic of Hwy 59 South of Ile Des Chenes many times, but I looked at the 59 and 52 intersection and I made some redesigns of it. I came up with ideas such as:

• - Segregated split T-intersection
  - Segregated Roundabout intersection (Roundabout with 59 Southbound bypass lane)
  - Roundabout without skew angle
  - T-intersection without skew
  - Twinned T-intersection
  - RCUT Intersection

I think 59 could possibly survive without twinning for many more years. Minor (or less expensive) upgrades such as resurfacing, additional service roads, widening, and passing lanes could help make 59 safer. 52 as well could use these upgrades, but it needs lots of intersections removed and joined into one as it is on a correction line.

[bodaggin]

Originally Posted by Carboy15

- Segregated split T-intersection
- Segregated Roundabout intersection (Roundabout with 59 Southbound bypass lane)
- Roundabout without skew angle
- T-intersection without skew
- Twinned T-intersection
- RCUT Intersection

Some good suggestions there. Keep it simple. Looks like blind spots are a potential issue on the corners. Didn't realize how busy that road is: 7,500 AADT. High for 2-way traffic.

Here's Manitoba's AADT traffic flow map FWIW: https://www.gov.mb.ca/mti/traffic/pdf/flowmap2019.pdf

[bomberjet]

In the similar vein as carboy mentioned. We've discussed this stretch of 59 and 52 into Steinbach are on the shortlist for twining.

[bryan_ca]

In today's Winnipeg Sun - re: Highway 5 and TCH

https://winnipegsun.com/news/overpas...rberry-council

"at a media conference in January, the province said an overpass project could cost as much as $100 million and could take more than 20 years to complete."


I don't think they mean "it takes 20 years to build one". They mean "it's not in the short-term plans and will likely only be considered in 20+ years". However, by that time, the cost will have changed. Who knows what will happen in the next 20 years?

[Carboy15]

Originally Posted by bryan_ca

In today's Winnipeg Sun - re: Highway 5 and TCH

https://winnipegsun.com/news/overpas...rberry-council

"at a media conference in January, the province said an overpass project could cost as much as $100 million and could take more than 20 years to complete."


I don't think they mean "it takes 20 years to build one". They mean "it's not in the short-term plans and will likely only be considered in 20+ years". However, by that time, the cost will have changed. Who knows what will happen in the next 20 years?

I personally think Highway 16 and 1 need an interchange way more than this. But an interchange should get built there soon. I wish Canada would come up with a National Freeway System analogous to the Interstate or Autobahn. A federally funded Highway system. Yes, we have the National Highway system, but what the heck is that? It has no national standards at all. Canadian Highways are still in the US Route days (like Route 66). Ontario 400 Highways and Autoroutes of Quebec don't count as a National Freeway system. We need it Nationwide

[bodaggin]

Good for Carberry for standing firm: Overpass only.

Whoever is estimating that $100 million needs to be fired immediately. BomberJet, branch off and start an overpass company. Agree Carboy, Yellowhead is worse, but not by much.

TCH/Yellowhead AADT = 13,070 x 3690
TCH/Carberry AADT = 8300 x 2520 (and tons of potato trucks)

I can say 1 thing. Of all the overpasses Manitoba needs, Perimeter @ McGillivray isn't even in my top 10. But it's up next.

While nationalizing TCH would be good, this is the hand we've been dealt now. Make it work. I've found close to $1 billion in funding on these SSP boards alone. Money isn't the issue. Prioritization and efficient use of money is the problem.