General Phoenix Metro Discussion Thread

[combusean]

As an aside, I half wonder if this forum could do well serving as an "Advisory Committee" or PAC of some sorts and get more involved on local issues as a group.

I could see this being a separate, ad-hoc group where people bring up issues that are important to them and we as a group could individually vote on it to endorse the statement.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by combusean

As an aside, I half wonder if this forum could do well serving as an "Advisory Committee" or PAC of some sorts and get more involved on local issues as a group.

There are some organizations already doing this work that are worth checking out:

Urban Phoenix Project
https://www.urbanphoenixproject.org/

Strong Towns Phoenix
https://www.strongtownsphx.org/

Downtown Voices Coalition
(no current website)

[azcats]

I've been retired for five years now...however, when working - I was part of this during my career.

If you want things done - you do need to have clout. Either by a collective voice - strong and loud enough - to get "their" attention - city council...municipal employees, the press (media), etc. If you can remember one thing - I will share with you - from my 26 years' experience dealing with these folks (I'm not going to name municipalities) there only two things elected officials really care about - above anything else - and only two: Getting elected and getting re-elected. The worse - is the press. The worst. However, when they write their "stories"...they know they carry some influence - the power of the press. If you want some changes - it would do you some good to do some research, etc.

Since this most recent conversation on this forum is specifically geared towards improvements need to be done within the downtown area - sidewalk shading, etc. Call the city of Phoenix planning...or zoning...engineering, etc. - find out what their requirements are for developers - and development within the immediate area. Specifically, do they assess development impact fees. I dealt with commercial real estate/ developers - constructing warehouses, etc. The hoops they go through: Neighborhood's input - they want to be good corporate neighbors. The size...the height...noise...traffic it will generate, etc. The city would also assess development impact fees. That would include the sidewalk and street realignment adjacent to the property. Also, LANDSCAPING improvements: which include the planting of TREES and other shrubberies, etc. Of course, some municipalities take advantage - causing negotiating - how about being charged $20,000 just for the city to do some landscaping along the city parkway (narrow strip - 50 feet long) fronting the warehouse! That required some intense negotiations.

Regarding forming a PAC: My experience is with PACs formed by the business community. Businesses and city/state governments need to work together to form a successful and healthy relationship/ community. Unfortunately, many in the business community are not feeling the "love." PACs have been formed - to raise money for specifically supporting candidates running for local, state, and federal office that are going to be business friendly and vote accordingly if elected to office. There are strict guidelines to forming a PAC - and the I.R.S keeps an eye on them.

A recent Arizona piece of legislation that would/ could have impact future development and investments that was shot down by the governor: The recent squatter's rights bill. Politics at play! That is why getting involved is important. It isn't easy to get what you want but, if it is your community...

[WarrenBuffett2024]

Absolutely awesome that you have so many actionable suggestions. Cool af. I definitely think you should start a group or something. Also, thanks for the advice regarding Scottsdale and Tempe. DTLA and Downtown Houston seem liked they are vaguely similar to what you describe as the phenomenon in Phoenix.

[TJPHXskyscraperfan]

Originally Posted by AZSunHiker

WarrenBuffet2024,
Since you've never been to Phoenix before, a word of advice so you don't make the mistake others have made: the most popular nightlife and social scene is in Old Town Scottsdale not downtown Phoenix. Incidentally, this is one of the big reasons why downtown Phoenix has such a small skyline. It is in competition with several other places around the metro for entertainment, tourism, nightlife, etc.

I disagree with this statement; maybe if you were talking 15 years ago. I’ve been out plenty in my life to Old Town and Downtown Phoenix and I much rather go out in DTPHX in 2024!!!!!!!!!!!!

[WarehouseDistrictGuy]

Originally Posted by TJPHXskyscraperfan

I disagree with this statement; maybe if you were talking 15 years ago. I’ve been out plenty in my life to Old Town and Downtown Phoenix and I much rather go out in DTPHX in 2024!!!!!!!!!!!!

I agree fully with your push-back on this conception. I bought a condo in the Warehouse District in 2018. Even in that short time (and with a break for a pandemic), Downtown is becoming increasingly vibrant and a go-to destination.

[az_daniel]

Originally Posted by TJPHXskyscraperfan

I disagree with this statement; maybe if you were talking 15 years ago. I’ve been out plenty in my life to Old Town and Downtown Phoenix and I much rather go out in DTPHX in 2024!!!!!!!!!!!!

here's my two cents - as someone who grew up in the valley and is currently in my 20s - and some insight for those wanting to visit phx.

without a single shred of doubt, downtown phoenix is where locals my age want to be. it is not even a question in my mind, when people want to go out, they are going downtown. yes, this is a significant move away from the traditional nightlife core of the valley, but it has been that way for a while now.

downtown is way more chill, cheaper, generally has a much cooler and more inclusive vibe, and (crucially) is light rail accessible. there are great music venues, diverse nightlife offerings for everyone, street markets, improving late night food options etc. you can pretty much curate the experience you want to have on any given night, whether you want to dance and party hard or have a quiet wine night with a book.

old town scottsdale is a top nightlife destination for a reason, but it is increasingly becoming more and more for tourists. certainly fun for a night out with out of town friends, but - speaking from experience it is just not something local twenty and thirty somethings are doing regularly. when we want to catch some live music, chill with friends, meet people and have a few drinks, it's going to be downtown every time and its not particularly close.

[KEVINphx]

Originally Posted by Buckeye Native 001

Shade, shade, shade.

I'm out in the far East Valley through next week. Driving around east Mesa and Gilbert, hardly any shade trees, or other Sonoran-native greenery for that matter. The only trees I see with any regularity in my parents' subdivision is palm trees.

WEIRD - I work in construction and have contracts at 12 tracts across the valley - I would say palm trees are only accent trees and at entries of select communities . . . I would hardly say they are the predominant tree at any measurable % of new developments.

I do see a lot of elm and ash trees as well as orchid trees - there is a current style trend away from the mesquites from my anecdotal experience in development. More Arcadia style with real or artificial turf, iceberg roses and a greener look overall. You still see the standard 1 mesquite/palo and 5 lantana shityard at entry level homes and I agree with what someone else said about those trees being essentially useless and a sad trend of millennial era landscaping . . .

[Buckeye Native 001]

Something I failed to mention in my rant is that my parents live in a 55+ subdivision (not Leisure World) and most of their neighbors are snowbirds, which might explain the lack of shade trees around here (most houses built in the 1980s and 1990s) since those require more maintenance than palms and a good chunk of the residents aren't living here half the year.

[KEVINphx]

Ah that could explain it :-D

[ChaseM]

I thought this was an interesting video on Downtown being small compared to other cities, I will say when he talks about Glendale I assume he’s talking about the stadium and Westgate!!

• Video Link

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by ChaseM

I thought this was an interesting video on Downtown being small compared to other cities, I will say when he talks about Glendale I assume he’s talking about the stadium and Westgate!!

Glendale does not have a skyline. He's probably just thinking about Midtown. Such as massive factual error only half a minute into the video undermines any credibility it would have had.

[combusean]

The two posts above were moved from the Phoenix development thread.

[PyroD]

I love how it opens with a decade old shot of downtown to show the viewer what iur skyline looks like

[MiEncanto]

Originally Posted by az_daniel

here's my two cents - as someone who grew up in the valley and is currently in my 20s - and some insight for those wanting to visit phx.

without a single shred of doubt, downtown phoenix is where locals my age want to be. it is not even a question in my mind, when people want to go out, they are going downtown. yes, this is a significant move away from the traditional nightlife core of the valley, but it has been that way for a while now.

downtown is way more chill, cheaper, generally has a much cooler and more inclusive vibe, and (crucially) is light rail accessible. there are great music venues, diverse nightlife offerings for everyone, street markets, improving late night food options etc. you can pretty much curate the experience you want to have on any given night, whether you want to dance and party hard or have a quiet wine night with a book.

old town scottsdale is a top nightlife destination for a reason, but it is increasingly becoming more and more for tourists. certainly fun for a night out with out of town friends, but - speaking from experience it is just not something local twenty and thirty somethings are doing regularly. when we want to catch some live music, chill with friends, meet people and have a few drinks, it's going to be downtown every time and its not particularly close.

Great post. A lot of folks are guessing based on outdated experiences. The person who goes to downtown Phoenix during the day or only comes down for an evening game here or there and takes off likely has no idea what the nightlife scene is like. Further, Tempe has slowed down so people in their 40s+ who think Mill is still a top scene have no idea. Downtown Gilbert is bigger than Mill now, which is crazy.

[MiEncanto]

Originally Posted by WarrenBuffett2024

If you guys were running Phoenix, what would you do to make it more desirable? A couple of skyscrapers would definitely be badass.

1. Phoenix needs a beautiful, central downtown square with a water feature that serves as a multiuse public space. My preference would be the lot west of the arena, with activated restaurant/retail surrounding it on multiple sides.
2. Trees and shade
3. Downtown phoenix needs a designated walking district that converts to car free for nights and events.
4. This is a moon shot, but to improve walkability and connection between Roosevelt and downtown, CoP should install an elevated pedestrian path that incorporates buildings for shade. I imagine it would have a few exits but generally run from Jefferson to Roos. It would be even cooler if it were an oval shape route using 2 streets. Yes, I realize this will never happen.
5. Large underground parking garage. Many great downtown areas have a large underground garage. AZ is a driving town and that will not change soon. I could imagine a P3 where the City pays for the garage while a developer pays for a building on top and benefits from the parking. Or perhaps blend this with number 1.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by MiEncanto

1. Phoenix needs a beautiful, central downtown square with a water feature that serves as a multiuse public space. My preference would be the lot west of the arena, with activated restaurant/retail surrounding it on multiple sides.
2. Trees and shade
3. Downtown phoenix needs a designated walking district that converts to car free for nights and events.
4. This is a moon shot, but to improve walkability and connection between Roosevelt and downtown, CoP should install an elevated pedestrian path that incorporates buildings for shade. I imagine it would have a few exits but generally run from Jefferson to Roos. It would be even cooler if it were an oval shape route using 2 streets. Yes, I realize this will never happen.
5. Large underground parking garage. Many great downtown areas have a large underground garage. AZ is a driving town and that will not change soon. I could imagine a P3 where the City pays for the garage while a developer pays for a building on top and benefits from the parking. Or perhaps blend this with number 1.

And everyone gets a pony and free ice cream for life!

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by ChaseM

I thought this was an interesting video on Downtown being small compared to other cities, I will say when he talks about Glendale I assume he’s talking about the stadium and Westgate!!

• Video Link

Phoenix has the same settlement patterns of all post war boom sunbelt cities.

Houston and Dallas should have skylines as big as Chicago and LA as big as New York but they don’t.

Bostons metro area is very similar in size to ours and its skyline isn’t particularly big either

[highnoon]

Originally Posted by Obadno

And everyone gets a pony and free ice cream for life!

Well when u respond like that to a great suggestion of course no progress will ever be made in this city, people always laugh off the best suggestions instead of actually going for them, smh

[locolife]

Originally Posted by ChaseM

I thought this was an interesting video on Downtown being small compared to other cities, I will say when he talks about Glendale I assume he’s talking about the stadium and Westgate!!

• Video Link

Helps make the claim when they show a nearly 2 decade old photo, that also avoids any views of the uptown skyline. That alone means I'll never click the link to give this obviously bias author any additional credit.