The Canadian Electric Vehicle thread

[WarrenC12]

I have a 2018 Tesla 3. Musk is a dickhead but I don't care. If I had to replace my vehicle tomorrow I'd go with a Model Y.

I keep looking at other options but they just aren't there yet. VW van, Rivian R2/3, and even F150 Lightning are all tempting options. I'd never go back to gas though.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I have a 2018 Tesla 3. Musk is a dickhead but I don't care. If I had to replace my vehicle tomorrow I'd go with a Model Y.

I keep looking at other options but they just aren't there yet. VW van, Rivian R2/3, and even F150 Lightning are all tempting options. I'd never go back to gas though.

Virtually every automakers now has offerings at least on par with 2018 Teslas in terms of range and basic automation. So if that worked for you, there's just no need to buy a Tesla. And post 2025, a lot of automakers are finally moving to their Gen 2 or Gen 3 EVs with lessons learned incorporated. I would rather drive an EV a generation behind than give Musk money. I might consider Tesla again if he's at just removed as CEO.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I have a 2018 Tesla 3. Musk is a dickhead but I don't care. If I had to replace my vehicle tomorrow I'd go with a Model Y.

I keep looking at other options but they just aren't there yet. VW van, Rivian R2/3, and even F150 Lightning are all tempting options. I'd never go back to gas though.

Then we can discount any future woke comments from you? After all, if you’re not willing to put your money where your mouth is….

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Then we can discount any future woke comments from you? After all, if you’re not willing to put your money where your mouth is….

I won't comment specifically on Warren since I have no idea what other forms of praxis they are or aren't undertaking - charity, activism, etc. But more generally, that actually is a relevant point. We often hear it called virtue signalling when people talk a virtuous game but don't add substance to it. Talk intended to convince others and/or themselves that they're a good person by having the right views without actually doing anything that has any real stakes to it. The term is often falsely levied at people who actually are doing something substantive, but there are definitely cases where people aren't willing to accept any inconvenience or discomfort for the sake of things they claim are important to them. When that happens, it may not make the things they're saying untrue, but it does imply that they may not be affording others the charitably and leeway they're allowing for themselves.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

It's costing them sales too. I think their slowdown in sales in key markets like California, has to be at least partly because of Elon's politics.

Its very odd move from a business standpoint because at this point, EVs are still largely a liberal-left culture war thing in a lot of markets, so the kind of people buying EVs are the kind of people who aren't going to like Elon's politics. Conversely those that like Elon's politics are much less likely to want to buy an EV.

Heading down the road if EVs stop being a culture war thing and everybody embraces them it won't hurt Tesla as much but we're not there yet.

Honestly I'm not sure why Elon hasn't just exited from Tesla (retire from company & sell his share). SpaceX is a bigger business anyway and Tesla has probably peaked.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Its very odd move from a business standpoint because at this point, EVs are still largely a liberal-left culture war thing in a lot of markets, so the kind of people buying EVs are the kind of people who aren't going to like Elon's politics. Conversely those that like Elon's politics are much less likely to want to buy an EV.

Heading down the road if EVs stop being a culture war thing and everybody embraces them it won't hurt Tesla as much but we're not there yet.

Honestly I'm not sure why Elon hasn't just exited from Tesla (retire from company & sell his share). SpaceX is a bigger business anyway and Tesla has probably peaked.

It's certainly true that people who are concerned about the environment and want to make less harmful choices skew disproportionately left. But in what universe is that culture war? Seems like when a new term becomes popular, people get all excited and start using it for everything even when it makes no sense.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

It's certainly true that people who are concerned about the environment and want to make less harmful choices skew disproportionately left. But in what universe is that culture war? Seems like when a new term becomes popular, people get all excited and start using it for everything even when it makes no sense.

Everything is a culture war these days. It's exhausting.

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I'm actually trying to stretch my car so I can get the R3. Here's hoping.

Would be a cool upgrade from your... VW hybrid?

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

It's certainly true that people who are concerned about the environment and want to make less harmful choices skew disproportionately left. But in what universe is that culture war? Seems like when a new term becomes popular, people get all excited and start using it for everything even when it makes no sense.

There's not just the environmental aspect. Increasingly, a chunk of the conservative base seem to be outright Luddites who reject technology on principle.

It's utterly nuts that developing countries have higher EV adoption and that something like nearly half of two and three wheeler sales are electric (mostly across the developing world) while a huge chunk of the population here still thinks this is a fad imposed by Trudeau and Biden. Sadly this is the state of affairs these days.

I have to read the Bloomberg NEF reports to remind myself that I'm not the one that is crazy. Look at the stats here. And then think about all the conversations you've had about this tech with people. Particularly the borderline conspiracists.

https://about.bnef.com/electric-vehicle-outlook/

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I have to read the Bloomberg NEF reports to remind myself that I'm not the one that is crazy. Look at the stats here. And then think about all the conversations you've had about this tech with people. Particularly the borderline conspiracists.

https://about.bnef.com/electric-vehicle-outlook/

Still, that switch to Toyota hydrogen powered cars is going well in California.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

I won't comment specifically on Warren since I have no idea what other forms of praxis they are or aren't undertaking - charity, activism, etc. But more generally, that actually is a relevant point. We often hear it called virtue signalling when people talk a virtuous game but don't add substance to it. Talk intended to convince others and/or themselves that they're a good person by having the right views without actually doing anything that has any real stakes to it. The term is often falsely levied at people who actually are doing something substantive, but there are definitely cases where people aren't willing to accept any inconvenience or discomfort for the sake of things they claim are important to them. When that happens, it may not make the things they're saying untrue, but it does imply that they may not be affording others the charitably and leeway they're allowing for themselves.

And at this point foregoing a Tesla in favour of another EV isn’t really an inconvenience, there’s other options. Gresto’s point that trading in a 4 year old Tesla he bought before Musk went full-on MAGA douchebag doesn’t make sense. However Warren’s defiant claim he buy a new Muskmobile renders any future “progressive” statement hypocritical.

Not only is Musk a big MAGAt but he seriously believes he deserves a $56 Billion paycheque while he fights union attempts by Scandinavian employees. He and the other tech bro billionaires are the new robber barons, convinced they deserve everything and their employees virtually nothing.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by whatnext

And at this point foregoing a Tesla in favour of another EV isn’t really an inconvenience, there’s other options. Gresto’s point that trading in a 4 year old Tesla he bought before Musk went full-on MAGA douchebag doesn’t make sense. However Warren’s defiant claim he buy a new Muskmobile renders any future “progressive” statement hypocritical.

Not only is Musk a big MAGAt but he seriously believes he deserves a $56 Billion paycheque while he fights union attempts by Scandinavian employees. He and the other tech bro billionaires are the new robber barons, convinced they deserve everything and their employees virtually nothing.

I would argue that not buying a Tesla because of Elon'e politics, but happily buying another big auto company's products is hypocritical. It's not like billionaire CEOs of any kind are good guys.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

I would argue that not buying a Tesla because of Elon'e politics, but happily buying another big auto company's products is hypocritical. It's not like billionaire CEOs of any kind are good guys.

To a point. Other auto CEOs are not billionaires. Nor are they so personally tied to and enriched by the companies they lead.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Still, that switch to Toyota hydrogen powered cars is going well in California.

They fact that they have to give out a $15k fuel card on already discounted cars says everything about those cars.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

I would argue that not buying a Tesla because of Elon'e politics, but happily buying another big auto company's products is hypocritical. It's not like billionaire CEOs of any kind are good guys.

Does making a lot of money make you a ‘bad guy’? If that’s the case, then from here on we will have to consider that the many professional athletes and entertainers who are making lots of money to be bad people as well.

I don’t think equating Musk to other CEOs is reasonable, since he uniquely has gone over and above to advance his political views in public, to the point of actually purchasing one of the most popular social media companies in order to control the narrative. Truly, Musk is a piece of crap of the highest degree, and is head and shoulders above any other CEO in the public realm (unless one of them is secretly an axe murderer or something).

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Does making a lot of money make you a ‘bad guy’? If that’s the case, then from here on we will have to consider that the many professional athletes and entertainers who are making lots of money to be bad people as well.

I don’t think equating Musk to other CEOs is reasonable, since he uniquely has gone over and above to advance his political views in public, to the point of actually purchasing one of the most popular social media companies in order to control the narrative. Truly, Musk is a piece of crap of the highest degree, and is head and shoulders above any other CEO in the public realm (unless one of them is secretly an axe murderer or something).

It's not about being bad for making money but when you buy a product that is completely associated with one person partially to signal to other people and yourself that you are a good person that one person being against everything you believe in and donating a huge chunk of those profits to advance these views has to have an impact.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Truly, Musk is a piece of crap of the highest degree, and is head and shoulders above any other CEO in the public realm (unless one of them is secretly an axe murderer or something).

To be fair a lot of B list Silicon Valley douchebags are like Musk. They are less well known. That's the difference. If you're never heard of this, it's what they all subscribe to:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/TESCREAL

Modern day Eugenics using things like climate change and Singularity as justification.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Does making a lot of money make you a ‘bad guy’? If that’s the case, then from here on we will have to consider that the many professional athletes and entertainers who are making lots of money to be bad people as well.

I don’t think equating Musk to other CEOs is reasonable, since he uniquely has gone over and above to advance his political views in public, to the point of actually purchasing one of the most popular social media companies in order to control the narrative. Truly, Musk is a piece of crap of the highest degree, and is head and shoulders above any other CEO in the public realm (unless one of them is secretly an axe murderer or something).

This is what I find so perplexing about those kind of responses. They totally miss the entire point. It has nothing to do with the company or owner being morally good in terms of what they're thinking or feeling. It's about what they're doing and saying. If there's one person or company who is spreading hate, harmful conspiracy theories or whatever and another who isn't, then what difference does it make if the one who isn't secretly shares the same views? As long as it stays in their heads or behind closed doors it doesn't matter. I would absolutely do business with the one not openly endorsing that stuff over the one actively promoting it. Because the point is to discourage people with power and platforms from using that power to promote destructive things.

[ssiguy]

How many of these EVs are sales as opposed to leases? I can see the advantages for businesses or people that jump from one lease to another. For the prior they get tax credits without the gas expenses and the latter, most of whom are wealthy, get a new car every 4 years and the lose of equity for not buying their leases is irrelevant.

For those actually buying EVs, they are a horrible investment. Admittedly cars are not investments as they depreciate as soon as you drive them off the lot but EVs vastly more so. A car can very easily run for 20 years but an EV only about 8 to 10 and then they hyper expensive batteries have to be replaced. Imagine trying to sell a 5 year old EV to a buyer that knows that in 5 years they are going to have to spend 10 to 15k just to keep the engine running. This is why Hertz, which went full tilt on EV until they realized they cost to much to maintain and renters didn't want them, decided to sell all their EVs and are finding out that nobody wants them and are now having to cut their sale prices to pennies on the dollar just to get rid of them.

100% EVs are simply too problematic, inconvenient, and expensive for the average buyer. The technology is advancing fast but as it stands now, they simply are not worth the bother and certainly aren't worth the price.

[Gresto]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

I would argue that not buying a Tesla because of Elon'e politics, but happily buying another big auto company's products is hypocritical. It's not like billionaire CEOs of any kind are good guys.

I was going to make that point as well. If I were to insist on purchasing things only from people I agree with politically, and boycotting those I don't, I would end up with a whole lot of Ben & Jerry's ice cream and Dan Price's... whatever it is he does. There is simply no avoiding being a customer of some awful people. The distinction with Tesla and Musk is that he is actively giving lots of money, his customers' money, to this despicable creature's political campaign. This is a moral conundrum for non-Trumpian Tesla owners.