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  #3681  
Old Posted Jul 16, 2024, 2:51 PM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
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No bus will run every 10 minutes. Not even the train will run at that frequency.
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  #3682  
Old Posted Jul 16, 2024, 3:04 PM
YOWetal YOWetal is offline
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Originally Posted by acottawa View Post
A local bus in a medium density neighbourhood comes about every 10 minutes. Optimistically you might have 1-2 buses arrive for every train departure, which would make the station look like COVID times. And I am not sure that is an improvement over bring local buses to South Keys.
Wildly optimistic I'd say and as you say even then it will be a dead white elephant station. The interest alone costing thousands per regular user.
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  #3683  
Old Posted Jul 16, 2024, 9:25 PM
qprcanada qprcanada is offline
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Technical briefing for O-Train Line 2 and 4 trial running

Media are invited to attend a technical briefing for O-Train Lines 2 and 4

Date: Thursday, July 18, 2024

Time: 10 am

Location: Champlain Room, City Hall, 110 Laurier Ave W

More delays ?
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  #3684  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2024, 6:13 PM
kmcamp kmcamp is offline
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Originally Posted by qprcanada View Post
Technical briefing for O-Train Line 2 and 4 trial running

Media are invited to attend a technical briefing for O-Train Lines 2 and 4

Date: Thursday, July 18, 2024

Time: 10 am

Location: Champlain Room, City Hall, 110 Laurier Ave W

More delays ?

Actually, I'd say this is positive news. It likely means they are about to start actual trial running. Raises a question I didn't think of before. Can 1 line operate without the other? I.e. they decide Line 4 passes, or Line 2 passes, and the other fails, would they hold both lines?
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  #3685  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2024, 6:58 PM
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J.OT13 J.OT13 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmcamp View Post
Actually, I'd say this is positive news. It likely means they are about to start actual trial running. Raises a question I didn't think of before. Can 1 line operate without the other? I.e. they decide Line 4 passes, or Line 2 passes, and the other fails, would they hold both lines?
Hoping for some timelines, start date for trial period, number of consecutive days needed, time before opening after successful trial.

Line 2 could work without Line 4, but not the other way around. That said, the South Keys transfer is critical to Line 4, and that can't be tested with Line 2 taking passengers, so I assume both will need to pass.
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  #3686  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2024, 8:00 PM
DTcrawler DTcrawler is offline
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Line 2 could work without Line 4, but not the other way around.
That was my initial thought as well but the more I think about it, why not?
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  #3687  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2024, 11:11 PM
ottawaballa ottawaballa is offline
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Based on the latest post in the thread linked below, the transfer time between lines 2 and 4 at South Keys will be 7 minutes. The trip between South Keys and the Airport will be 9 minutes.

It will take significantly longer to get between downtown and the airport once Lines 2 and 4 open than what we currently have.

https://skyrisecities.com/forum/thre...4.37751/page-3
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  #3688  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2024, 12:08 AM
DTcrawler DTcrawler is offline
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That's outrageous. Assuming the above is correct, that'll be twice now where Trillium Line upgrades have not been able to deliver on promised frequency, with the issue somehow only being discovered in the final stages of construction.

Can someone with more knowledge on these matters please explain how the hell this is possible? In 2016 frequency on the line was supposed to go from 15 minutes to 8 min but only 12 min was achieved. Now a 2 min transfer between Lines 2 and 4 becomes 7 min??? Are there not engineers who model this stuff before the design is finalized? Really hoping this is a short interim solution to get the line open otherwise it will be a huge disappointment (not to mention the pocket track will be pretty much obsolete).
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  #3689  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2024, 1:17 AM
kmcamp kmcamp is offline
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Well line 4 was always going to be a downgrade. But it was never going to be a high ridership thing anyway. I'm more concerned about how line 2 will operate in the end
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  #3690  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2024, 3:17 AM
acottawa acottawa is offline
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Originally Posted by DTcrawler View Post
That's outrageous. Assuming the above is correct, that'll be twice now where Trillium Line upgrades have not been able to deliver on promised frequency, with the issue somehow only being discovered in the final stages of construction.

Can someone with more knowledge on these matters please explain how the hell this is possible? In 2016 frequency on the line was supposed to go from 15 minutes to 8 min but only 12 min was achieved. Now a 2 min transfer between Lines 2 and 4 becomes 7 min??? Are there not engineers who model this stuff before the design is finalized? Really hoping this is a short interim solution to get the line open otherwise it will be a huge disappointment (not to mention the pocket track will be pretty much obsolete).
I am guessing the testing has probably revealed the complicated plan they had to coordinate the two lines will not work in practice and 7 minutes is just the wait time or the two lines arriving randomly.

It doesn’t really matter. This was never a plan to get to the airport. It was a plan to say Ottawa had a train to the airport.
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  #3691  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2024, 6:27 AM
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Originally Posted by acottawa View Post
I am guessing the testing has probably revealed the complicated plan they had to coordinate the two lines will not work in practice and 7 minutes is just the wait time or the two lines arriving randomly.

It doesn’t really matter. This was never a plan to get to the airport. It was a plan to say Ottawa had a train to the airport.
I suppose in the future you will be able to ride all the way to Bayview. Definitely seems short sighted for the time being though.

You think international travelers don't have 30 bucks for an Uber?? Why on earth would you bother with this connection? Especially during the winter. Unless your Hotel is like the Delta and across the street from Lyon why on earth would you bother with this. Makes no sense.

I say this as someone who has both taken trains and Uber/Bolts from airports.

I just spent 20 hours in transit with two connections and you want to to catch three trains and then walk to my fraking hotel??? That ain't gonna happen Chief.

Bangkok is the only spot I've been where the Airport train is worth it, because it brings you somewhere extremely relevant at high speed with limited stops.

I live in South Keys and I cant be arsed to take transit to the Airport. 90/92 and then wait for the 97? Makes no sense. I can Uber for pocket change unless I bum a ride from my Dad just so we can see each other off.
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  #3692  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2024, 11:14 AM
acottawa acottawa is offline
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Originally Posted by ponyboycurtis View Post
Bangkok is the only spot I've been where the Airport train is worth it, because it brings you somewhere extremely relevant at high speed with limited stops.
There are lots of places where the airport train is worth it. In most European or Asian cities (and some North American cities) I wouldn't even consider taking a cab unless I was burdened with an unusual amount of luggage. Three trains to replace a 20 minute cab ride is almost certainly in the not worth it category.

It might be worth it for the EY centre though, I can park at South Keys for free and save $10 in parking.
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  #3693  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2024, 11:25 AM
kmcamp kmcamp is offline
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Originally Posted by acottawa View Post
There are lots of places where the airport train is worth it. In most European or Asian cities (and some North American cities) I wouldn't even consider taking a cab unless I was burdened with an unusual amount of luggage. Three trains to replace a 20 minute cab ride is almost certainly in the not worth it category.

It might be worth it for the EY centre though, I can park at South Keys for free and save $10 in parking.
Same here. It would be a great for a big event for something like Comicon, where parking overflows to the old military base. The airport, not so much
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  #3694  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2024, 1:14 PM
Multi-modal Multi-modal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DTcrawler View Post
That's outrageous. Assuming the above is correct, that'll be twice now where Trillium Line upgrades have not been able to deliver on promised frequency, with the issue somehow only being discovered in the final stages of construction.

Can someone with more knowledge on these matters please explain how the hell this is possible? In 2016 frequency on the line was supposed to go from 15 minutes to 8 min but only 12 min was achieved. Now a 2 min transfer between Lines 2 and 4 becomes 7 min??? Are there not engineers who model this stuff before the design is finalized? Really hoping this is a short interim solution to get the line open otherwise it will be a huge disappointment (not to mention the pocket track will be pretty much obsolete).
The reason given to Rail Fans Canada was that to use the pocket track in the service pattern they originally plan (providing those lovely 2-minute transfers) required a lot of switch movements. It would be simpler and less wear and tear on the switches/vehicles if they didn't use the pocket track at all. So, of course, that is what they decided to do - customer experience be damned!

Now they will only use the pocket track in emergency or special situations, and the transfers will be 7 minutes...

O, and they tried to sell this to Rail Fans Canada and other media as an improvement.
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  #3695  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2024, 1:34 PM
OTSkyline OTSkyline is offline
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2min would have been great, 7 is unacceptable. Needs to be under 5... so tops 3-4 minutes. Make it happen.
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  #3696  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2024, 1:37 PM
YOWetal YOWetal is offline
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Originally Posted by Multi-modal View Post
The reason given to Rail Fans Canada was that to use the pocket track in the service pattern they originally plan (providing those lovely 2-minute transfers) required a lot of switch movements. It would be simpler and less wear and tear on the switches/vehicles if they didn't use the pocket track at all. So, of course, that is what they decided to do - customer experience be damned!

Now they will only use the pocket track in emergency or special situations, and the transfers will be 7 minutes...

O, and they tried to sell this to Rail Fans Canada and other media as an improvement.
This is scandalous. I guess they will gain ridership over the bus because a lot of people are afraid of a bus but what a disaster. I was always big on including the airport because I think it brings support for rail from people who don't otherwise use transit. I fear this will be the opposite. People will take the train arrive at Rideau Centre 45 minutes later? and curse the whole system.

As AC says it was about saying there is a train to the airport. South Keys may lauch an airport parking service which would be ironic as that is the big fear of a convenient transit link losing parking revenue and instead would lose drivers.
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  #3697  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2024, 5:40 PM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
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I could see this was going to be the outcome from watching testing. Remember how they eliminated the third track at South Keys. This is the result, and I can't see resolution, so expect this to be long-term.
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  #3698  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2024, 6:44 PM
c_speed3108 c_speed3108 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YOWetal View Post
This is scandalous. I guess they will gain ridership over the bus because a lot of people are afraid of a bus but what a disaster. I was always big on including the airport because I think it brings support for rail from people who don't otherwise use transit. I fear this will be the opposite. People will take the train arrive at Rideau Centre 45 minutes later? and curse the whole system.

As AC says it was about saying there is a train to the airport. South Keys may lauch an airport parking service which would be ironic as that is the big fear of a convenient transit link losing parking revenue and instead would lose drivers.
Interesting idea. EY Center is getting a O-Train station and charges a flat rate daily of $10. Cheapest thing at the airport is $20. Even park and fly is around $15/day depending on discounts (the weekly rate is $85).
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  #3699  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2024, 7:11 PM
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Trillium Line enters final stage before opening, but still has no launch date
'We don't want to work under pressure,' says OC Transpo head

Arthur White-Crummey · CBC News
Posted: Jul 18, 2024 3:02 PM EDT | Last Updated: 7 minutes ago


OC Transpo says it's in the home stretch of preparations to open the north-south Trillium light rail line, but management won't yet commit to a specific date to begin service.

Michael Morgan, director of the city's rail construction program, said OC Transpo is now in a final eight-to-10 week phase that began on July 8. If everything goes smoothly, that could mean a September opening.

But there's always the chance unexpected problems could crop up and delay that further.

"If we run into an issue on week nine, it will be longer," he said Thursday.

As part of that process, OC Transpo is aiming to meet a 98.5 per cent reliability standard during a trial running period that hasn't yet started. Transit services general manager Renée Amilcar said if the system can't meet that standard, they would have to "start again" and "continue until we get it."

Amilcar said the dates for the trial run are not yet confirmed, and she repeatedly refused to commit to a timeline for when the system will open to the public.

"We want to be able to say that when the system is opened, it's because we are ready," she said. "We don't want to work under pressure."


She would not directly answer a question on whether there is any chance of the line opening in time for the start of the fall semester at Carleton University.

Amilcar said there is still "critical work to be done" and does not want to rush the trains into service.

OC Transpo is still waiting for building occupancy permits for five of 13 stations. It needs all of them to start trial running.

Morgan said among his top concerns are the switches that move trains between double and single tracks. They have to work "flawlessly." If even one fails, it could interrupt service along a stretch of the line.

He called that "critical" to preventing delays, but said they're still seeing switch issues a couple times per week.

"We're close, but we really want to get that number to between zero and zero," he said. "A couple a week is too many for us."

When it starts, trial running will begin with a 14-day reliability testing period followed by a seven-day phase simulating various "failure scenarios" such as an immobilized train, a failed rail switch or a medical emergency on board.

OC Transpo would then have to go to Transport Canada to get regulatory approval to operate, a step Morgan said should take only a few days.

He said the project started with a checklist of checklists, but OC Transpo is now on the "final list."

"If you look at a schedule, there's tens of thousands, there's maybe 15,000 line items in a schedule for one of these projects," he said. "We're at the end. We're down to 50."

Riverside South-Findlay Creek Coun. Steve Desroches, chair of the light rail subcommittee, said residents in his suburban south Ottawa community have been eagerly waiting for the train, which has already been delayed by two years.

"I know the residents want us to get this system up and running in such a manner that it's reliable and that it's safe and that we don't go through the same experience that we did in the first phase of the project," he said.

"There's certainly frustration, but we need to get it right by Day 1."

Capital ward Coun. Shawn Menard called the Trillium Line "a critical piece of infrastructure" for students at Carleton University, which is in his ward.

"What can I tell Carleton students and staff about the timeline for the fall?" he asked. "It looks like we had initially said we would be ready for early September, I think, was our absolute deadline. It looks like that's being pushed back a bit now."

Amilcar again deferred, saying she hopes to announce good news at the end of that eight-to-10 week period.

Morgan said OC Transpo has already been running trains on the line on a full 18-hour schedule, but the contractually required trial running period differs by adding greater monitoring and reporting. OC Transpo is planning to give councillors daily updates on the results.

"We're practising now. This is the final step. This is the first time we've really pushed the [maintainenance contractor] to turn the vehicles around in that short window," Morgan said.

"We're going to start measuring really seriously starting next week ,and then use that to inform when we actually start trial running."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottaw...date-1.7268044
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  #3700  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2024, 9:08 PM
DTcrawler DTcrawler is offline
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Quote from the article above...

Quote:
Morgan said among his top concerns are the switches that move trains between double and single tracks. They have to work "flawlessly." If even one fails, it could interrupt service along a stretch of the line.

He called that "critical" to preventing delays, but said they're still seeing switch issues a couple times per week.

"We're close, but we really want to get that number to between zero and zero," he said. "A couple a week is too many for us."
Seems like we've found the real reason behind the "wear and tear" concern for switches provided to RFC. Seems like the real reason for the change of plans is because they're worried a switch issue might disrupt operations. I don't understand how we're still having switch issues after little to no issues on the old Line 2 and after all the lessons learned through Line 1's struggles.

That being said, I'm at least a bit more hopeful they'll revert to the pocket track plan once switch issues have been resolved. If not, I'll be raising hell until my email address is blocked by every councillor and staffer I can get ahold of. No way they're going from a 2 min transfer to 7 min, pitching it as an "improvement" for customers, and getting away with it.
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