DETROIT | Ren Cen | potential redevelopment

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I put the odds of at least a partial demolition in the next 5 - 7 years at greater than 40%. It wouldn't be the first iconic building in Detroit to meet the wrecking ball. I think demolition is even more likely than it would have otherwise been because GM owns it and doesn't want a huge abandoned building lingering around for years to give it bad press.

I think the most likely option is that GM unloads it onto the state government, although not sure what the state would even do with it... But demolition has a high probability.

Upping the odds here to 80-90%. GM has apparently requested funds from the state of Michigan to perform at least a partial demolition of RenCen complex.

https://www.freep.com/story/money/ca...s/74342542007/

[Crawford]

From the Freep:

"The discussions are preliminary, with studies underway on the best future use for the riverfront property after GM moves to Gilbert's new Hudson's Detroit building in the city's core downtown. But according to several people familiar with the matter, early thinking leans toward tearing down most of the seven towers and leaving one or two standing to preserve part of the skyline. The tower or towers left standing of Detroit's most recognizable building complex would then be renovated for new uses beyond the offices and shops it offers now, two of the people told the Detroit Free Press."

https://www.freep.com/story/money/ca...s/74342542007/

My guess is the tallest tower will be preserved, for skyline purposes, but the four office towers and the podium will be removed. And the two later office towers may or may not be removed, but since they have partial tenancy now, might as well keep them around.

And I bet you the hotel closes in the next few years. Then likely converted to residential.

If you take the long view, the RenCen emptied the office market in the traditional core. Then the revival of the traditional core emptied the RenCen. No one wants to admit it, but the RenCen never made sense. It's nice Henry Ford II pushed for a downtown revival, but this was a really dumb idea.

[Steely Dan]

I'm still holding our hope for a resi conversion for the 4 outrigger office towers.

However, if only the central hotel cylinder can remain, I guess I'll VERY reluctantly take that, but it'd look awfully naked and alone all by itself.

As for the two shorter adjunct towers to the east, who cares?

[sentinel]

Tearing down large highrises seems to be the MO in Detroit, why is that? Especially now when real estate still holds enormous value, and conversions to residential are desperately needed throughout the country. Weird.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by sentinel

Tearing down large highrises seems to be the MO in Detroit, why is that?

According to CTBUH data, there has only ever been one "large" highrise ever demolished in Detroit, the 410' original Hudson's store which was imploded back in 1998.

Beyond that, over the past 40 years, there have only been 2 other highrises over 200' tall that have come down in Detroit.

Hotel Statler - 232' - 2005

Hotel Wolverine - 230' - 1997


If the four 509' tall outrigger towers of the Ren Cen actually do get taken down, it would be one of the most significant voluntary skyscraper demolitions in US history (only 3 500+ footers have ever been voluntarily demolished in the US: 2 in NYC and 1 in Chicago, and all three were replaced by even taller towers).

It would also represent a halving of Detroit's stock of 500+ footers, from 8 down to 4.

I dearly hope more sensible thinking prevails.

[Yackemflaber69]

This is such a shame, I hope they can at least keep the tallest tower and integrate it into the city better

[pianowizard]

A Dan Gilbert RenCen purchase is very much on the table, documents show

Copy-and-pasted from the Crain's Detroit article:

Dan Gilbert formally has an option to buy the majority of the Renaissance Center.

A 10-page public notice of what’s called a “put and call agreement” describes Gilbert’s Resurgence Realty LLC’s option to buy the main five-building complex plus other property from Riverfront Holdings Inc., an affiliate of General Motors Co.

This marks the first public confirmation that a sale is under serious consideration, nearly three months after Gilbert’s Bedrock LLC real estate company and GM announced on April 15 that the Detroit-based automaker would move its longtime RenCen headquarters to Gilbert’s $1.4 billion Hudson’s Detroit development north of Campus Martius Park.

The RenCen consists of seven buildings: The main GM-owned complex, which has four 39-story office towers flanking a 73-story hotel skyscraper that is the state’s tallest building at 727 feet; and a pair of 21-story office high-rises that were developed in the 1980s and are not owned by GM.

[Steely Dan]

^ you can't post entire articles here on the forum.

It's a copyright issue and can bring legal trouble to the forum's owner.

Fair use is up to 3 paragraphs and a link to the source article. If the source is pay-walled, that's life.

[Yackemflaber69]

What is Dan Gilberts plan for Ren Cen?

[BuildThemTaller]

The RenCen is such an interesting building. It would be a shame to lose the 5 main GM-owned towers, or even any of them. However flawed the urban renewal efforts have been, it is an important symbol for the city. You would think the recent residential and hotel developments along the river would suggest some kind of demand. I hope Gilbert can find something to do with the space.

[NYguy]

To me, these towers are as symbolic of Detroit's skyline as the Twin Towers were for New York's, maybe even more so. We've seen that change can happen, but I really do hope they can save these buildings. It would be a blow to skyscrapers, especially when you read something like this...
https://www.post-gazette.com/opinion...s/202407090011

If they were to replace the towers with modern towers, keeping the same aesthetic, that would lessen the blow.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Crawford

From the Freep:

"The discussions are preliminary, with studies underway on the best future use for the riverfront property after GM moves to Gilbert's new Hudson's Detroit building in the city's core downtown. But according to several people familiar with the matter, early thinking leans toward tearing down most of the seven towers and leaving one or two standing to preserve part of the skyline. The tower or towers left standing of Detroit's most recognizable building complex would then be renovated for new uses beyond the offices and shops it offers now, two of the people told the Detroit Free Press."

https://www.freep.com/story/money/ca...s/74342542007/

My guess is the tallest tower will be preserved, for skyline purposes, but the four office towers and the podium will be removed. And the two later office towers may or may not be removed, but since they have partial tenancy now, might as well keep them around.

And I bet you the hotel closes in the next few years. Then likely converted to residential.

If you take the long view, the RenCen emptied the office market in the traditional core. Then the revival of the traditional core emptied the RenCen. No one wants to admit it, but the RenCen never made sense. It's nice Henry Ford II pushed for a downtown revival, but this was a really dumb idea.

I think the hotel is safe. Downtown Detroit needs far more hotel rooms than it currently has now. Prices for rooms downtown are often through the roof now because of the shortage in rooms. The redevelopment plan for the site will probably center around the hotel tower plus one or two of the office towers.

[Yackemflaber69]

Originally Posted by NYguy

To me, these towers are as symbolic of Detroit's skyline as the Twin Towers were for New York's, maybe even more so. We've seen that change can happen, but I really do hope they can save these buildings. It would be a blow to skyscrapers, especially when you read something like this...
https://www.post-gazette.com/opinion...s/202407090011

If they were to replace the towers with modern towers, keeping the same aesthetic, that would lessen the blow.

Jesus, this is awful. Unfortunately this seems to be a growing trend with Skyscrapers in the rust belt

[BuildThemTaller]

Originally Posted by Yackemflaber69

Jesus, this is awful. Unfortunately this seems to be a growing trend with Skyscrapers in the rust belt

What do you mean by trend? Cleveland, Detroit, Milwaukee, and Pittsburgh are all building towers right now.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I think the hotel is safe. Downtown Detroit needs far more hotel rooms than it currently has now. Prices for rooms downtown are often through the roof now because of the shortage in rooms. The redevelopment plan for the site will probably center around the hotel tower plus one or two of the office towers.

The current hotel is a dump, and has very low rates. So maybe the hotel use is safe, but not that operator & brand. That tower will need a full redevelopment. And it's enormous, something like 1,300 rooms. Very hard to fill when there isn't a special event.

I'd bet a hotel use would be combined with residential, which is likely a safer long-term play. Do a luxury 400-room hotel, and convert the rest to high end rentals.

Re. the remaining towers, it's not like the site would be some giant wasteland. I'm sure Gilbert would build stuff there. But the current office buildings are likely worth less than the land. Build some midrise residential that actually orients around the riverfront. And another benefit of removing the office towers is you (hopefully?) get rid of those giant garages to the east. Residential and parkland.

[animatedmartian]

^Marriott???

Anyway, I do feel like a rebuild would be a bit of a waste when conversion would make more sense.

However, I'd want to see visions and plans for how it would look if there was a partial demolition. The podium is huge and it'd be interesting to see if they can divide it up somehow and maybe create some new developable city blocks so that it's not one huge complex.

It'd be a massive undertaking but there seems to be enough motivation to do it if it activates that part of downtown.

Now if only we could give Jefferson a road diet after 375 is removed.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

^Marriott???

I don't know what this means. Yeah, the current brand is a Marriott.

Twenty years ago, this was the fancy hotel downtown, with the highest rates. Now it has the lowest rates among the major hotels. It's pretty dumpy.

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

Anyway, I do feel like a rebuild would be a bit of a waste when conversion would make more sense.

The entire thing? Conversion to what? That would be like 7,000 apartments.

The Book Tower received most of a block of $620 million in tax subsidies to covert 500,000 square feet. The public subsidies for a RenCen conversion would be ridiculous.

[edale]

I love the Ren Cen and think it's an incredibly iconic tower complex, so I'd hate to see it go. But I also understand it's deeply flawed, and residential conversion for the office towers seems unlikely due to the size and design of those towers. If a decision is made to demolish part or all of the complex, I would seriously consider making a trip to Detroit to actually visit and walk through the Ren Cen. I've driven by it countless times, but have never actually gone in, and I'd love to see it in person before it goes away.

[Crawford]

If you're in LA, it has more or less the same interior feel as the Westin Bonaventure, but supersized. A 1970's vision of the future. Quite interesting but also weird.

[Steely Dan]

I still remember th first time I visited the Ren Cen in 1984 as an 8 year old boy.

I thought that I WAS in the future.