The Next Nashville? Billions In New Investment Could Put Baltimore Back On The Map

[craigs]

Originally Posted by wwmiv

https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/governmen...n-st-louis.cfm

https://waterwayscouncil.org/media/i...-in-the-future

Thank you.

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by Prahaboheme

This article is a bit dated but this all seems logical in terms of major port cities (not suggesting there aren’t others but it’s quite telling where they are located and not):

https://nowthatslogistics.com/top-15...-the-americas/

This is a list of major ports. Of course sea ports have the most traffic! They have access to less restricted waterways. Rivers (and by extensions most lakes) go in two directions: upstream and downstream (plus whatever navigable tributaries and distributaries there are), whereas sea lanes are plentiful.

https://usace.contentdm.oclc.org/dig...1coll2/id/7447

If you broaden your group only a bit, and consider only rankings and tonnage rather than city names and their cultural cache:

Of the fiftiest busiest ports in the United States, numbers 17, 19, 21, 22, 37, 39, 40, 41, 42 are all on rivers and NOT accessible by oceangoing vessels.

26, 28, 43, and 49 are on the Great Lakes and are accessible by smaller oceangoing vessels.

33, 47, and 48 are on the Columbia River and are accessible by many oceangoing vessels, but they are significantly upriver.

And as a matter of completeness, the following ranked ports are located on rivers (rather than on bays, harbors, or other non-riverine water bodies) even though in practice they are operate as seaports: 2, 5, 7, 13, 16, 18, 23, 38.

To recap, 9 out of the 50 see only river barge traffic and 24 out of the 50 are actually located on rivers or must pass thru rivers to get there.

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

Still light years more fascinating than the circle-jerk dip-shittery of the CE toilet

I turned the tele off years ago.

[Six Corners]

So if I follow this discussion correctly, St. Louis's port is a bigger part of the city's identity than Philadelphia's port is to it because Philadelphia's identity is more tied to all the Asian and Latin neighborhoods everyone is so familiar with, but the type of boats that dock at the St. Louis port don't count as port boats so it's not a port.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

But then further down there's a "types" section which states,

And there's also a page that lists ports in the US, and Port of St. Louis and East St. Louis is listed.

Ocean-going ships can't pull up to random spots on the Atlantic and Pacific coastlines to load/unload cargo. This is because a)they have keels and so need deep water and b)the ocean has waves.

The U.S. rivers are completely different. The towboats and barges don't need keels because waves are minimal and wind is less extreme. This means that they're usually able to pull up very close to the shoreline almost anywhere along thousands of miles of inland waterways.

This means there is no need for a harbor where cargo must be transfered to rail or trucks before reaching its end user. Instead, the power plants, factories, etc., are situated right on the riverbank. Coal, gravel, etc. is conveyed directly from the barge to the end-user. These sites are often in rural counties, far from St. Louis or any other major river city.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV

St. Louis isn't a port city, more of a beer city. Now Porto, that's a port city.

Is St. Louis a beer city or a lager beer city?

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Is St. Louis a beer city or a lager beer city?

St. Louis is a bigger legacy lager beer city than Portland is a legacy river port city.

[Six Corners]

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV

St. Louis isn't a port city, more of a beer city. Now Porto, that's a port city.

Nah, Porto is more of a wine city. Or really Gaia is, borrowing prestige on Porto's name. It has wine legacy, you might say.

But then is port wine really a wine? And if St. Louis were to produce port wine would it be considered port wine since St. Louis's port is, to some people, not a port? Would it instead be, say, barge dock wine?

[Steely Dan]

"barge dock wine" is the most amazingly Midwestern thing I've heard of.

I desperately want some!

[SIGSEGV]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

"barge dock wine" is the most amazingly Midwestern thing I've heard of.

I desperately want some!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missouri_wine

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

"barge dock wine" is the most amazingly Midwestern thing I've heard of.

I desperately want some!

Yeah, I'm about to call it quits for the next four days get into some barge dock wine!

[pj3000]

I'm kinda surprised Chuck Berry didn't have a song about barge dock wine.

[Notonfoodstamps]

Originally Posted by Six Corners

So if I follow this discussion correctly, St. Louis's port is a bigger part of the city's identity than Philadelphia's port is to it because Philadelphia's identity is more tied to all the Asian and Latin neighborhoods everyone is so familiar with, but the type of boats that dock at the St. Louis port don't count as port boats so it's not a port.

St. Louis has a port. It’s just not a deep water seaport which fill an entirely different niche for the economy (international trade vs. domestic goods transportation)

It’s like comparing a regional airport to an international one. Apples and oranges.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by pj3000

I'm kinda surprised Chuck Berry didn't have a song about barge dock wine.

Ingram whiskey is aged on a barge on the Mississippi River:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KB34qFY_SF4

They stole the idea from Jefferson Ocean.

Bringing the thread full-circle, Ingram Barge and the other Ingram companies are HQ'd in Nashville and predate the boom by 50+ years. The Ingrams are an old money family who funded the symphony hall in DT Nashville and many other philanthropic endeavors. As I have mentioned in other threads, Nashville's tech connection came through Ingram Micro and Ingram Book (which was the original Amazon distribution warehouse for the eastern half of the United States).

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by pj3000

Yeah, I'm about to call it quits for the next four days get into some barge dock wine!

"23 percent sounds a bit strong for wine", he said with a smile... before going on a 3 day bender

[Centropolis]

slight quibble - small ocean going ships from latin america loaded with fruit have docked at St. Louis but its a seasonal, dicey proposition that hasn't been common since the mid twentieth century. but, there are no locks all the way to the gulf starting at the port of St. Louis so its an entirely feasible proposition dependent on draft vs channel depth. so, technically the port of St. Louis 100% has functioned as a seaport. i'm going to assume that some international ocean going shipping have gone up the ohio river as well but the lock and dam system is an issue that doesnt apply to St. Louis.

Ocean going sailing vessels have also historically docked at St. Louis - before the USACE it was also risky to go that far north but it was done seasonally.

here's the USS Inaugural moored at St. Louis before she foundered.


NPS.GOV


(shes still there, i've walked on her hull during low river levels).

[Centropolis]

Here's some (small) anti-submarine ships moored downtown St. Louis:


mohistory.org

Sailing vessel downtown St. Louis around 1849:


mohistory.org

[mhays]

Shipping is another sector that's aggregated into big players (cities, ships, ports) and much less for everyone else...

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by Centropolis

i'm going to assume that some international ocean going shipping have gone up the ohio river as well but the lock and dam system is an issue that doesnt apply to St. Louis.

The Ohio River was canalized in 1929 to a depth of nine feet. The same depth was achieved when the Upper Mississippi was canalized in the 1930s. But every few years the Lower Mississippi experiences a low water period and barge traffic ceases there while it continues uninterrupted above the dams.

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

The Ohio River was canalized in 1929 to a depth of nine feet. The same depth was achieved when the Upper Mississippi was canalized in the 1930s. But every few years that Lower Mississippi experiences a low water period and barge traffic ceases there while it continues uninterrupted above the dams.

This is true - I have spent considerable time along the Mississippi south of St. Louis between the Ozarks and southern Illinois uplift and vast beaches and geologic formations emerge. At St. Louis the channel is extremely narrow and deeply dredged south of the chain of rocks, so it's not as evident but south of the port area and into the lower Mississippi it can get pretty interesting.

https://media.cnn.com


https://media.cnn.com/api/v1/images/...,c_fill/f_webp