Federal Government & Politics II

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I don’t think that is ethnic Palestinians doing that, it is mostly white people. These were the people arrested attacking the Indigo

Nisha Toomey, Sharmeen Khan, MacDonald Scott, Mercedes Lee, Suzanne Narain, Lesley Wood Sarom Rho, Ian Doty, Stuart Schussler, Karl Sebastian Gardner, Clement Cheng.

I know you can’t tell ethnicity from names, but none of those are Arab-associated names.

Fair point and somehow not surprising. We are stuck with the Mercedes Lees and Scott McDonalds of the world so no need to bring in anyone who supports their views even.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Al Jazeera is owned and operated by the Qatar royal family (Sheikh Hamad bin Thamer bin Mohammed Al Thani is the Chairman of the Board) which is the largest backer of Hamas (and host of its leadership), so they are hardly a neutral source.

Netanyahu used Qatari money to support Hamas. Qatar has mediated and tried to broker a peace deal.

[Rollerstud98]

Can we bring this thread back to Canadian federal politics. Use the foreign affairs thread for foreign affairs discussions.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Rollerstud98

Can we bring this thread back to Canadian federal politics. Use the foreign affairs thread for foreign affairs discussions.

Agreed!
It's infecting several threads. It doesn't seem like it's an election issue here unlike it's decisive role in French and to a lesser extent a few seats in the UK.

[casper]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I don’t think that is ethnic Palestinians doing that, it is mostly white people. These were the people arrested attacking the Indigo

Nisha Toomey, Sharmeen Khan, MacDonald Scott, Mercedes Lee, Suzanne Narain, Lesley Wood Sarom Rho, Ian Doty, Stuart Schussler, Karl Sebastian Gardner, Clement Cheng.

I know you can’t tell ethnicity from names, but none of those are Arab-associated names.

I don't think we should be surprised about that.

I few weeks ago I was talking to someone who was directly involved in a logging blockade on the island from a few years ago that gained nation wide attention. Their take was interesting, there were the native right sub-group, the environmental sub-group and there the adrenaline junkies. When the local indigenous communities asked them to leave it was the adrenaline junkies that had the hardest time. It was a cause for them to be associated with and they thrived off the confrontation.

Most people are shocked with the excessive force directed at civilians by the Israel military just was we are shocked by the terrorist attacks from the other side. Wanting to escalate that into a Canadian domestic conflict is going to be driven by other domestic factors.

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Agreed!
It's infecting several threads. It doesn't seem like it's an election issue here unlike it's decisive role in French and to a lesser extent a few seats in the UK.

PP is trying to position the Conservatives as pro-is real. The Liberals have a more neutral position. It has the potential to be an election issue with a small subset of the Canadian population. I just don't see it being a major factor.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by casper

PP is trying to position the Conservatives as pro-is real. The Liberals have a more neutral position. It has the potential to be an election issue with a small subset of the Canadian population. I just don't see it being a major factor.

I don't think there is any evidence PP is trying to position them as anything. Maybe he is continuing the successful Harper strategy of peeling away Jewish voters which is key in a handful of ridings. It seems that might have won him St. Paul. Overall I think there are more Muslim votes that go Conservative deciding ridings though and really who else can the Zionist oriented Jews vote for ? Bernier?

I think he just believes like a lot of Conservative oriented people it is a simple case of right and wrong and has little empathy for those caught in the crossfire which is also a conservative trait.

It could be an issue with vote splitting on the left but as you say it doesn't seem like it will be a factor.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Auto industry said it couldn’t be met anyway.

Of course it can be met. Tesla alone could meet it.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by casper

...


PP is trying to position the Conservatives as pro-is real. The Liberals have a more neutral position. It has the potential to be an election issue with a small subset of the Canadian population. I just don't see it being a major factor.

Even-handed. Not "neutral".

[theman23]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Fair point and somehow not surprising. We are stuck with the Mercedes Lees and Scott McDonalds of the world so no need to bring in anyone who supports their views even.

Those goal posts have slid right off the field.

[casper]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

I don't think there is any evidence PP is trying to position them as anything. Maybe he is continuing the successful Harper strategy of peeling away Jewish voters which is key in a handful of ridings. It seems that might have won him St. Paul. Overall I think there are more Muslim votes that go Conservative deciding ridings though and really who else can the Zionist oriented Jews vote for ? Bernier?

I think he just believes like a lot of Conservative oriented people it is a simple case of right and wrong and has little empathy for those caught in the crossfire which is also a conservative trait.

It could be an issue with vote splitting on the left but as you say it doesn't seem like it will be a factor.

There is a video floating around from a few months ago that has PP talking to the Jewish community and he is very clearly positioning himself on one side of the debate. I will try to find it.

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Even-handed. Not "neutral".

Yes, Even-handed is a better term to describe the Liberal position.

[Hecate]

Originally Posted by casper

There is a video floating around from a few months ago that has PP talking to the Jewish community and he is very clearly positioning himself on one side of the debate. I will try to find it.



Yes, Even-handed is a better term to describe the Liberal position.

Following in the footsteps of proud former liberals. Like Frederick Blair and his “none is too many” comments.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

Netanyahu used Qatari money to support Hamas. Qatar has mediated and tried to broker a peace deal.

He didn’t stop Qatar from giving money to Hamas, that isn’t the same as using it. You would have freaked out if he did stop it.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by casper

There is a video floating around from a few months ago that has PP talking to the Jewish community and he is very clearly positioning himself on one side of the debate. I will try to find it.

It's from April, and apparently on YouTube. It's referenced here. He outlines his personal experience in Israel, and blames Iran for the Hamas attack.

"Poilievre told the audience he says the same things in mosques as he does in synagogues: "I love meeting with the Muslim people. They are wonderful people. When the issue of Israel comes up, I say, 'I'm going to be honest with you. I am a friend of the State of Israel, and I will be a friend of the State of Israel everywhere I go.'

"Poilievre said he believes in a negotiated two-state solution, with Palestinians and Israel living in peace and harmony."

[casper]

Originally Posted by Hecate

Following in the footsteps of proud former liberals. Like Frederick Blair and his “none is too many” comments.

Canada's history is filled with examples of very dark aspects of how as a country we acted. The relationship with indigenous communities. How we treated Italian and Japanese Canadians during the war. There are multiple examples. The Frederick Blair comments and treatment of Jewish refuges is another example. There is no defence for that.

I believe JT did make a formal apology on behalf of Canadians for those actions. If he did not, he should have.

Just as we should do our part to take in Palestinian refuges today, we should have done more to take in Jewish refuges during the war. We did not and we need to learn from that mistake.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Agreed!
It's infecting several threads. It doesn't seem like it's an election issue here unlike it's decisive role in French and to a lesser extent a few seats in the UK.

It wasn't even a massive issue in France outside certain minority communities. Certain proponents want to insist it is to argue for their own relevance. It is even less relevant in Canada.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

It wasn't even a massive issue in France outside certain minority communities. Certain proponents want to insist it is to argue for their own relevance. It is even less relevant in Canada.

It is always hard to determine how relevant it is. There was a massive Paris suburbs turnout and demonstrations waving Palestinian flags though they were also voting against a stridently anti-immigrant (rather than only anti immigration) party. There is no such dynamics in Canada for sure.


There are rumblings it could cost Biden Michigan for example which would be a very hard loss to make up.

In the UK a few independants actually knocked off incumbent Labour MPs which is pretty dramatic. The same thing could have happened in Canada if the Liberals didn't move rather substantially towards the Palestinan side on a lot of issues. If the NDP was at all competent they could be stealing those votes which would have the potential to put them ahead of the Liberals (would require across the board competence) I think if we get a few NDP ahead of the Liberals polls we could see a substantial break. Honestly the NDP should dump Singh more than the Liberals should dump Trudeau.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by casper

Canada's history is filled with examples of very dark aspects of how as a country we acted. The relationship with indigenous communities. How we treated Italian and Japanese Canadians during the war. There are multiple examples. The Frederick Blair comments and treatment of Jewish refuges is another example. There is no defence for that.

I believe JT did make a formal apology on behalf of Canadians for those actions. If he did not, he should have.

Just as we should do our part to take in Palestinian refuges today, we should have done more to take in Jewish refuges during the war. We did not and we need to learn from that mistake.

I am not against Canada accepting refugees from Gaza, but I don't think the situation is really equivalent to that of European Jews in the Second World War. For all sorts of reasons.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by casper

Canada's history is filled with examples of very dark aspects of how as a country we acted. The relationship with indigenous communities. How we treated Italian and Japanese Canadians during the war. There are multiple examples. The Frederick Blair comments and treatment of Jewish refuges is another example. There is no defence for that.

I believe JT did make a formal apology on behalf of Canadians for those actions. If he did not, he should have.

Just as we should do our part to take in Palestinian refuges today, we should have done more to take in Jewish refuges during the war. We did not and we need to learn from that mistake.

Ridiculous to call our history dark. There are barely a force with a more universally positive record on these issues. I'd put our Indigenous record up against the US or Australia but also Russia and China though the latter two are openly asimilist and have much less economic divergence for it than we do.

While we had anti-semitism before and through world war 2 that was a very different culture and a product of religion. The Canadian self flagalation is sometimes tiresome. I was at a holocaust conference as a student and it was borderline hilarious to see Canada talk about the shame of turning away a ship while Polish and Hungarian scholars talked about the bravery of those hiding a few Jews ignoring the widespread collaboration.

I was suprised to hear the host at Canada day on Parliament hill repeatidly say this is the greatest country in the world and certainly the very diverse crowd agreed with that sentiment. It will be nice to have a government again that believes it as well.

[Marshsparrow]

Never thought I would feel sorry for Michelle Ferreri - "Conservative MP attacked online after praising police for arrest in alleged homophobic crime"

This mob is very very very dangerous.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/con...rime-1.7257454

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I am not against Canada accepting refugees from Gaza, but I don't think the situation is really equivalent to that of European Jews in the Second World War. For all sorts of reasons.

Palestinian refugees is an issue that sets off strong reactions among Palestinians themselves. It is seen by some as an existential threat.