noirish Los Angeles

[ethereal_reality]

Let's momentarily return to our NOIRISH roots.

Here is the LINK to perhaps the most noirish post on NLA. It's an amazing list of murders in Los Angeles in the 1940s by NoirCityDame. (it was posted back in 2016)

I rediscovered her post because I was curious about the 1947 'butterfly' murder of Dorothy Montgomery.


julydogs/wordpress

I thought it was a real butterfly but it's a butterfly pin the victim was wearing.





From NOIRCITYDAME's post.



I am 99% certain this is the only time Dorothy Montgomery's murder has been mentioned on NLA.



I found some additional information.



Los-Angeles-Times (I think)


And this.

Oakland CA Newspaper

Unless I missed it somehow her murder was never solved.


Here's where I could use some help, noirishers. ..

I've been trying to locate the lot with the Pepper Trees. (of course it's probably not an empty lot any longer but there might still be some pepper trees at the location)
Per the articles it is (was) somewhere near 9115 Grape Street. I checked it out but it's confusing.

This requires the SuperWhip emoji. Go forth, minions!

.

[Noir_Noir]

I've arrowed what I think is 9115 Grape Street on this detail from an aerial dated May 1st 1947 ... a day before the murder.



mil.library.ucsb.edu


The “pepper tree lane” mentioned could be one of the the paths that run across the top.

The trees I've circled maybe the most likely area for where the body was found.


There are some trees in that area in this last GSV from 2018 but I can't identify any of them as pepper tree or not.



GSV

[ProphetM]

A blast from the past, please don't kill me!

From the 'beating a dead horse' department: Old timers here may recall the nearly-unending saga of the Arcade Depot palm tree. Many photographs of the palm at the depot featured a sign in front of the tree, but as I recall we never managed to find a photo large enough to 100% confirm what the sign said.

A post on Facebook finally enabled easy reading of 2 out of 3 lines, and a Google search based on that post led me to an even larger version of the photo where the entire sign could be read. I found the photo here:
https://delivery.library.ca.gov:8443...ps_pid=IE33015

At full zoom, the sign reads:

FAST DRIVING
NOT ALLOWED
On These Premises



A photo which was posted (checks notes) 11 years ago confirmed "NOT ALLOWED" as the middle line and "FAST DRIVING" as the probable first line, but the last line was still in question. JScott made a best guess of 'In These Premises' which is now confirmed as entirely correct but for the first letter. Good eyes, JScott.

Anti-climactic, I know, but I had to share.

[tovangar2]

Thank you ProphetM.

Much appreciated

[ethereal_reality]

.
re: The 'Butterfly' Murder - Dorothy Montgomery. R.I.P.


Holy Cow, Noir Noir!

Originally Posted by Noir_Noir

I've arrowed what I think is 9115 Grape Street on this detail from an aerial dated May 1st 1947 ... a day before the murder.



The trees I've circled maybe the most likely area for where the body was found.

What are the odds that the aerial was taken the day before the murder. I'm stunned. (stunned, I tell you)

And you're no doubt correct that the spot where Montgomery's body was found is (was) among the clump of trees.

Also note the two diagonal lines. They are short cuts that people took across the lot. Perhaps Mrs. Montgomery was walking on one of the paths.
I've seen similar lines in other empty lots. I remember one such short cut clearly visible on an empty lot along Wilshire Blvd.


For example: (this isn't the Wilshire one)


I'm going to be really embarrassed if these lines are something other than paths and shortcuts. (written in 2018)

You can see other examples HERE.


.

[Mackerm]

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality

RE: RKO Hillstreet Theater, 1933


Positive posted by Scott Charles



It looks like I was wrong about the movie camera. Perhaps it's a speaker. ..Of course the other thing is a kleig light.
.

American Widescreen Museum

Some of the blimped cameras were big and boxy, notably the 3-strip Technicolor ones. The above picture is a blimped Ultra Panavision camera filming Raintree Country (1957.)

[westcork]

Originally Posted by ProphetM

A blast from the past, please don't kill me!

From the 'beating a dead horse' department: Old timers here may recall the nearly-unending saga of the Arcade Depot palm tree. Many photographs of the palm at the depot featured a sign in front of the tree, but as I recall we never managed to find a photo large enough to 100% confirm what the sign said.

A post on Facebook finally enabled easy reading of 2 out of 3 lines, and a Google search based on that post led me to an even larger version of the photo where the entire sign could be read. I found the photo here:
https://delivery.library.ca.gov:8443...ps_pid=IE33015

At full zoom, the sign reads:

FAST DRIVING
NOT ALLOWED
On These Premises



A photo which was posted (checks notes) 11 years ago confirmed "NOT ALLOWED" as the middle line and "FAST DRIVING" as the probable first line, but the last line was still in question. JScott made a best guess of 'In These Premises' which is now confirmed as entirely correct but for the first letter. Good eyes, JScott.

Anti-climactic, I know, but I had to share.

Seems like Los Angeles had a speeding problem before there were cars.

[JScott]

Originally Posted by ProphetM

JScott made a best guess of 'In These Premises' which is now confirmed as entirely correct but for the first letter. Good eyes, JScott.

Cool! Appreciate the followup.

[JeffDiego]

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality

.
re: The 'Butterfly' Murder - Dorothy Montgomery. R.I.P.


Holy Cow, Noir Noir!



What are the odds that the aerial was taken the day before the murder. I'm stunned. (stunned, I tell you)

And you're no doubt correct that the spot where Montgomery's body was found is (was) among the clump of trees.

Also note the two diagonal lines. They are short cuts that people took across the lot. Perhaps Mrs. Montgomery was walking on one of the paths.
I've seen similar lines in other empty lots. I remember one such short cut clearly visible on an empty lot along Wilshire Blvd.


For example: (this isn't the Wilshire one)


I'm going to be really embarrassed if these lines are something other than paths and shortcuts. (written in 2018)

You can see other examples HERE.


.

Very interesting post about poor Dorothy Montgomery. I hadn't remembered Noir City Dame's impressive list of 1940's murders of women, and now have just skimmed it - but noticed what looks like a big boo-boo in her mention of Jean Spangler's disappearance, which has always interested me. It says that Jean had once been Beth Short's roommate....What! Wait a minute!... Never heard that one before. Guess Noir City Dame just made a mistake. I googled the subject and no reference anywhere to any personal connection between the two women.
If anyone cares to correct me, please do.
By the way, was it here at NLA (or elsewhere?) that I read a couple of months ago that Mamie Van Doren, still going strong in Newport Beach at 94 or so, said that she was working on a new book & was going to give details about her and her mother's accquaintance with Elizabeth Short. I believe Mamie said that her mother was so frightened by the Black Dahlia murder that she asked Mamie to never publicly talk about it. Color me very intrigued.
Update: I read the MamieVan Doren item at Mamie's blog...here's what she wrote:
https://mamievandoreninsideout.wordp...-black-dahlia/

[Snix]

An incredible group of Chinatown photos is currently on eBay.
Marked 1929 but I think I see a "beer" sign in one window, so maybe post 1933?

Other signs include

"Chinatown's Big Removal Sale"

Chew Fun & Co. Chinese Herbs
Man Jen Low Cafe
F. See On Co.
Soochow Cafe Soo Chow Cafe?






Seller: Up All Day https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ssn..._name=upallday

[Snix]

I don't think it's all that complicated why the older photo looks better. It's just the economics of changing ownership and a changing neighborhood. What some might call 'practical upgrades' on a rental property. The original medical building was catering to a better off clientele that would appreciate amenities found in a new modern home. The elaborate stone work and planters and residential-style door. Seventy years later, it's a lower rent locale (businesses keep cycling in and out of there) with tenants and/or property owners who don't see the value in maintaining the integrity.
A) The windows have been pushed out to gain a few more feet of square footage inside
B) Iron bars and a security door have been added to mitigate crime
C) A larger sign has been added, likely because failing tenants thought that was why their business was going under.

Originally Posted by Martin Pal

One view I have on that is that when we see old buildings they often have artistic detailing that just isn't allowed now because it's not safe during earthquakes. Anything that might possibly fall on you is verboten.

Also, the comparison shots we use for "now" are most always from GSV. Photos in the past were taken with more care because you were using film (expense), and you probably made certain allowances for lighting or whatnot. In other words, someone wanted to take the photo you're seeing. GSV doesn't care about that. They just show you what's there whenever they happen to be driving by. Also, we have a context for the past which also gives us some connection or history or idealized thought that comes with it that we don't have for the present because we don't have any backward context to it.

I'm reminded of the film Midnight in Paris. The lead character is enamored with the 1920s past he's visiting whereas the woman he meets in the '20s thinks he's crazy; it's the Belle Epoque era in the 1890s that she thinks is the bees knees.

When I see photos on this site of the 1950s I think day to day living in Los Angeles in that decade would be my least favorite. The smog was burning people's eyes, neighborhoods were being ripped apart with freeway construction all over, downtown was being dismantled and rebuilt, the streets were being dug up to remove all of the P.E. car tracks, among other things.

[Martin Pal]

JimCraig's comment was a general one about old photos compared to now photos.

Originally Posted by JimCraig

Why do the older ones always look better?
_______________________________________________________________

So my comment was meant to be more general. If you look at The Garden of Allah website the daily photos are usually accompanied by a recent photo of the same place and you invariably get comments from some about it all being better originally. Same thing happens on youtube videos (like NASS's site) how everything looked better, was better, always cleaner, now sucks... etc.

[Scott Charles]

Originally Posted by westcork

Seems like Los Angeles had a speeding problem before there were cars.

I've always liked this sign that hung over the 3rd Street tunnel next to Angels Flight:

NOTICE: $100.00 FINE
For Riding, Driving, Or Propelling Any Vehicle
Faster Than Eight (8) Miles Per Hour In This Tunnel







Fellow Noirishers, here's something I've never understood about the above sign:

Wasn't $100 an INCREDIBLY high price for a simple traffic ticket circa 1905??



According to this link, $100 was HALF A YEAR'S SALARY in 1905.

Seems more than a bit draconian to me...

[Scott Charles]

Originally Posted by Snix

An incredible group of Chinatown photos is currently on eBay.

Marked 1929 but I think I see a "beer" sign in one window, so maybe post 1933?

... and it would have to be before 1939, as the construction of Union Station was complete by that point:


https://www.thereallosangelestours.com/the-old-los-angeles-chinatown/

Thanks for posting these amazing photos, Snix!

[richie_starky]

Hi all

Apologies if this is a little out of timing with the thread's intentions, but there doesn't seem to be a catch-all LA thread.

Long shot, but any chance someone recognizes this location? I'm certain it's in the Hollywood Hills somewhere, and I think it's a southwest perspective, i.e. looking down onto LA proper.



I'm thinking it's in the general area of Harold Way/Carlton Way/Kings Road but can't be certain. There's what looks like a TV antenna or something similar on the left hand side which might help. This is the closest image I could find from what I think is the same perspective (I think the trees and antenna line up):



any help would be greatly appreciated!

[fullpower]

Originally Posted by Scott Charles

I've always liked this sign that hung over the 3rd Street tunnel next to Angels Flight:

NOTICE: $100.00 FINE
For Riding, Driving, Or Propelling Any Vehicle
Faster Than Eight (8) Miles Per Hour In This Tunnel







Fellow Noirishers, here's something I've never understood about the above sign:

Wasn't $100 an INCREDIBLY high price for a simple traffic ticket circa 1905??



According to this link, $100 was HALF A YEAR'S SALARY in 1905.

Seems more than a bit draconian to me...

They had speedometers in 1905? on a horse?

[unihikid]

Originally Posted by richie_starky

Hi all

Apologies if this is a little out of timing with the thread's intentions, but there doesn't seem to be a catch-all LA thread.

Long shot, but any chance someone recognizes this location? I'm certain it's in the Hollywood Hills somewhere, and I think it's a southwest perspective, i.e. looking down onto LA proper.



I'm thinking it's in the general area of Harold Way/Carlton Way/Kings Road but can't be certain. There's what looks like a TV antenna or something similar on the left hand side which might help. This is the closest image I could find from what I think is the same perspective (I think the trees and antenna line up):



any help would be greatly appreciated!

The skyline to the right reminds me of Century City especially with the "Twin Towers". The tall buildings to the left might be Beverly Hills (Flynt Towers area)?

[edmeyer]

Anybody know where the 1930s "Yale Hotel" or maybe "Vale Hotel". Not Sure. Most likely it was 975 Wilshire Blvd.

I need old pics?

Send me a PM and I'll send a picture from my dad's old photo album...

[HossC]

Originally Posted by edmeyer

Anybody know where the 1930s "Yale Hotel" or maybe "Vale Hotel". Not Sure. Most likely it was 975 Wilshire Blvd.

I need old pics?

Send me a PM and I'll send a picture from my dad's old photo album...

The Yale Hotel/Hotel was at 1407 W 11th Street throughout the 1930s, and even up to at least 1969 according to the city directories. The property websites give a build date of 1924 (with renovation in 2020), so the extant building is probably the Yale Hotel. You can see StreetView here, or a nice view of the rear of the building at LoopNet.

[odinthor]

There was as well a Yale Apt. Hotel at 975 Wilshire in the 1930s:


Los Angeles Times, 6/17/1935


Los Angeles Times, 10/16/1938