PHILADELPHIA | Lowrise/General Developments Thread II

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by Raja

I go back and forth thinking it's lack of funding and thinking it's just incompetence.

I drive to DE at least three times a week for work. Immediately--like, immediately--over the state line, the interstate goes from disgusting to beautiful. Smooth surface, maintained vegetation, and virtually no litter.

Why?

Well, as to the litter and the vegetation, I see maintenance crews along 95 in Delaware at least once a week. By comparison, I see them once or twice a year in Pennsylvania. I mean, JFC there was a whole dead deer that was left decomposing for months on the shoulder last winter near the airport. This could be a symptom of underfunding. Delaware's state income tax is more than double Pennsylvania's. And clearly some of that extra money is going to maintenance.

As to the road surface, I've concluded that it simply has to be at least partly incompetence. PA seems to resurface the roads as frequently as DE and NJ. But it seems that no matter how often PennDOT scrapes and repaves, within months the road forms terrible transverse cracks and bumps and, eventually, potholes. This doesn't happen in DE, and I don't see them on the roads in NJ either when I get re-routed that way. I don't understand why it's so hard for PA to maintain its roads.

I will say that, of late, the Philadelphia sections of the road have been cleaner, and for several months now the litter has been far worse in Delaware County than it is in Philadelphia. Also, the cleanup of the refinery site at the bottom of the Platt has, by any and every measure, improved the "welcome to Philadelphia" experience you get coming in from the airport.

I know many folks on here are anti-highway and avoid driving as much as possible; I wish that was my life, too. But man... the lack of upkeep on the roads is truly atrocious and really does set us apart in a bad way. Hopefully things keep marginally improving.

Delaware charges people to use I95. There is your answer. If PA charged $6 to every car on 95 or 76 rest assured you would see better maintenance. Same applies to MD and the NJ and PA turnpikes, etc. The PA turnpike is in better shape than almost every interstate in PA that is funded from the general pot. PA refuses to do a straight up gas tax increase- the last increase was some sort of GOP derived indirect increase on the wholesale price of gas to avoid saying the actual tax went up. These decisions have consequences. I was just in CA with $4.70 gas and the shoulders were a bit cleaner and the highways were in decent condition- a combination of better weather and higher taxes.

BTW, I76 is being repaved as we speak as is 476 and 95 north of 676 is actively being rebuilt. 95 in delaware county was completely repaved last year from the airport to DE state line- so not sure where you are seeing all this lack of investment in major roads.

[cardeza]

I just saw in one earlier comment that someone is jealous of JErsey roads- you cant be serious. The major roads in South JErsey like 38 and 130 and 73 were notoriously bad for decades- things may be better now only because NJ increased its gas tax several years ago.

[El Duderino]

Construction updates at Broad & Girard - including a new construction permit for a 94-unit project that was stalled since 2018.

320+ New Units at Broad & Girard
https://jackphillyre.substack.com/p/...oad-and-girard
July 1, 2024

[Raja]

Originally Posted by cardeza

95 in delaware county was completely repaved last year from the airport to DE state line- so not sure where you are seeing all this lack of investment in major roads.

1487, I don't think you read what I wrote. The road's already pocked with buckles and cracks.

I'm totally on board with tolls. You use, you pay.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by cardeza

Nonsense, no street cleaning of any type is taking place- just ask people on here. Funny how in all the complaining of how nothing ever changes, the citywide cleaning by Parker isn't mentioned. Just last week someone on here incorrectly said the street cleaning program is in "pilot" stage- which is was about 5 years ago.

The city itself calls it a pilot still and for your information, this years pilot extension is literally no extension to new neighborhoods at all. Just the same neighborhoods as last year.

5 years into street cleaning and like 20% of the city is being cleaned. It's the definition of incompetence.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by cardeza

Delaware charges people to use I95. There is your answer. If PA charged $6 to every car on 95 or 76 rest assured you would see better maintenance. Same applies to MD and the NJ and PA turnpikes, etc. The PA turnpike is in better shape than almost every interstate in PA that is funded from the general pot. PA refuses to do a straight up gas tax increase- the last increase was some sort of GOP derived indirect increase on the wholesale price of gas to avoid saying the actual tax went up. These decisions have consequences. I was just in CA with $4.70 gas and the shoulders were a bit cleaner and the highways were in decent condition- a combination of better weather and higher taxes.

BTW, I76 is being repaved as we speak as is 476 and 95 north of 676 is actively being rebuilt. 95 in delaware county was completely repaved last year from the airport to DE state line- so not sure where you are seeing all this lack of investment in major roads.

I know this is your take, but you know what else is spotless in Delaware and New Jersey. ALL OF THEIR ROADS.

202 in Delaware. Spotless. Naamans Rd in Delaware. Spotless. Philadelphia Pike (Rt 13) in DE. Spotless. 130 in NJ. Spotless. Rt 52 in NJ. Spotless. These are not toll roads. I can continue with my list if you'd like.

Also. 95 was repaved in PA in Delco last year. And it looks horrendous. Already. Trash everywhere. The shoulder of 95 between the Blue Route and Rt 322 in Upper Chichester is a continuous line of trash and debris. End to end trash.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by cardeza

I just saw in one earlier comment that someone is jealous of JErsey roads- you cant be serious. The major roads in South JErsey like 38 and 130 and 73 were notoriously bad for decades- things may be better now only because NJ increased its gas tax several years ago.

We also increased our gas tax. What's your point?

[TonyTone]

Originally Posted by Raja

1487, I don't think you read what I wrote. The road's already pocked with buckles and cracks.

I'm totally on board with tolls. You use, you pay.

https://www.phillyvoice.com/penndot-...%20the%20plan.

A PennDOT initiative to implement tolls on up to nine interstate bridges has been temporarily halted by a Commonwealth Court judge, who issued a preliminary injunction on Wednesday to freeze progress on the plan. Cumberland County and seven other municipalities have filed a lawsuit claiming the bridge tolling program is illegal and unconstitutional.

PennDOT introduced the $2.2 billion plan early last year with support from Pennsylvania Gov. Tom Wolf. The proposal involves using a public-private partnership model to implement tolls between $1-$2 on some of the state's most cost-intensive bridges, ensuring that they receive critical repairs and maintenance.

The candidate bridges for the plan — including South Philadelphia's Girard Point Bridge on I-95 — are pictured in the map below. PennDOT had selected a consortium of companies in March to manage construction projects and long-term maintenance on these bridges, but the early planning stages of the initiative faced heavy resistance from some of the affected communities

The lawsuit stems from local opposition to a toll on Harrisburg's South Bridge, which carries Interstate 83 and the Capital Beltway over the Susquehanna River in Cumberland County. The Girard Point Bridge crosses a roughly mile-long stretch of I-95 that heads southwest toward Philadelphia International Airport and northeast toward FDR Park, the Navy Yard and the sports complex.

[TonyTone]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

The city itself calls it a pilot still and for your information, this years pilot extension is literally no extension to new neighborhoods at all. Just the same neighborhoods as last year.

5 years into street cleaning and like 20% of the city is being cleaned. It's the definition of incompetence.

I've seen street sweepers in more areas than what the map shows, ive seen them in S Philly around Washington Ave, N Philly, Kensington (of course) & other areas around the city.

The city is getting cleaner and being taken care of, the program to clean every single block in the city has been a success with 4000 blocks being cleaned in 4 weeks, they are cleaning blocks, towing abandoned cars, and boarding up vacant and open homes, this is a major win for the city in terms of QOL.

https://www.audacy.com/kywnewsradio/...ee-week-report

She says the work, so far, has defied expectations. As of Monday, Parker said, crews had cleaned 4,000 residential blocks and commercial corridors, putting the initiative on track to achieve its target of 17,000 blocks by the end of August.

“I heard people say, ‘Thirteen weeks? She’s going to clean every block? She’s setting herself up for failure,’” the mayor said.

“I don’t apologize for being bold, for reaching high. If we reach for the moon and get the stars, at least Philadelphia will see that we used every resource, every tool, to address the issues.”

She said she had used the “tool of convening” different agencies to get results.

“There is nothing that we cannot do if we put our mind and our resources together,” she said.

[TonyTone]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

I know this is your take, but you know what else is spotless in Delaware and New Jersey. ALL OF THEIR ROADS.

202 in Delaware. Spotless. Naamans Rd in Delaware. Spotless. Philadelphia Pike (Rt 13) in DE. Spotless. 130 in NJ. Spotless. Rt 52 in NJ. Spotless. These are not toll roads. I can continue with my list if you'd like.

Also. 95 was repaved in PA in Delco last year. And it looks horrendous. Already. Trash everywhere. The shoulder of 95 between the Blue Route and Rt 322 in Upper Chichester is a continuous line of trash and debris. End to end trash.

Brown, I travel from Delaware to Philly every week, 95 from the border thru the airport is the best looking it has ever been, 10 years ago it was a mess with damaged infrastructure and bad roads especially thru the Chester section which is already a bottleneck, it's been improving over the past decade.

Also Cardeza is not wrong the reason why 95 and other roads in Delaware and NJ are better is because of the Tolls, you gotta think, the tolls bring in an extra dollar amount every year to fund the highway plus more, and allows more money to be spent elsewhere.

Also we cannot compare Jersey or Delaware to the Philly Metro.

The Philly Metro has millions in movement in a single day, A SINGLE DAY. The Upkeep required to keep things in order is very very EXPENSIVE, and PA has funding issues across the board especially in Philly a city thats just now getting on it's feet after decades of loss and disinvestment.

Lets look at it this way, the Reason Center City stays clean even though it's the busiest part is because another entity pours the resources into upkeep, those CCD workers, & City Workers that are out there around the clock keeping Center City in order.

So it's simple, you want more upkeep we need more FUNDING

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by Raja

1487, I don't think you read what I wrote. The road's already pocked with buckles and cracks.

I'm totally on board with tolls. You use, you pay.

You cannot add tolls to highways that were funded by the feds as part of the original interstate system- PA tried this with I80 and it was a failure. The highways that are part of the interstate system that have tolls generally were initiated by their states prior to the feds funding the full system and thus the tolls could remain.

I was on I95 going to and from DE less than 3 weeks ago- the newly paved section is absolutely not full of potholes. I mean I get you have an ax to grind but some shit just doesn't make sense. Like saying a recently paved section of interstate is in poor condition.

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by TonyTone

Brown, I travel from Delaware to Philly every week, 95 from the border thru the airport is the best looking it has ever been, 10 years ago it was a mess with damaged infrastructure and bad roads especially thru the Chester section which is already a bottleneck, it's been improving over the past decade.

Also Cardeza is not wrong the reason why 95 and other roads in Delaware and NJ are better is because of the Tolls, you gotta think, the tolls bring in an extra dollar amount every year to fund the highway plus more, and allows more money to be spent elsewhere.

Also we cannot compare Jersey or Delaware to the Philly Metro.

The Philly Metro has millions in movement in a single day, A SINGLE DAY. The Upkeep required to keep things in order is very very EXPENSIVE, and PA has funding issues across the board especially in Philly a city thats just now getting on it's feet after decades of loss and disinvestment.

Lets look at it this way, the Reason Center City stays clean even though it's the busiest part is because another entity pours the resources into upkeep, those CCD workers, & City Workers that are out there around the clock keeping Center City in order.

So it's simple, you want more upkeep we need more FUNDING

People are totally out of touch with what kind of state we live in and how this being a "purple" state affects everything that happens in Philly and beyond. There is zero chance of this state passing even a modest gas tax increase, no matter how much one is justified. Its the same at the federal level where gas tax hasn't changed in over 30 years and will not because politicians are scared to death to admit that after 30 years of inflation its overdue for an increase. State politics and the demographics of this state are why we are behind in EV incentives, gas tax, educational funding, gun regulations and a host of other issues. While other states are offering tax rebates or in NJ's case, no sales tax on EVs- PA has no statewide incentive to encourage EV ownership which is probably an anomaly in the NE part of the US.

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

We also increased our gas tax. What's your point?

First of all, that was a decade ago and secondly, the actual tax on retail sales of gas were not increased because Republicans would never have signed off on it. They did a tax increase on wholesalers of gas and some of that was passed on to consumers, but it was not what was needed and even if it was after 10 years of inflation its inadequate and PA needs a gas tax increase to align with current cost of doing business.

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

I know this is your take, but you know what else is spotless in Delaware and New Jersey. ALL OF THEIR ROADS.

202 in Delaware. Spotless. Naamans Rd in Delaware. Spotless. Philadelphia Pike (Rt 13) in DE. Spotless. 130 in NJ. Spotless. Rt 52 in NJ. Spotless. These are not toll roads. I can continue with my list if you'd like.

Also. 95 was repaved in PA in Delco last year. And it looks horrendous. Already. Trash everywhere. The shoulder of 95 between the Blue Route and Rt 322 in Upper Chichester is a continuous line of trash and debris. End to end trash.

So your new argument is every single state road in PA is full of trash? I could at least see you were grounded in reality if you are talking about interstates. What PA state roads have you ever been on? 611? 132? 202? PA82? 252? 452? I have NEVER seen an abundance of trash on two or 4 lane state roads through the PA burbs. There are places where you drive from DE into PA out in DE or Chester county and you would have no clue which state is which. The PA state roads in the Philly suburbs are absolutely on par with surrounding states when it comes to upkeep and roadside trash. US13 in DE is a horrible stroad that I have been on countless times, its congested, its horrible from an optics perspective with all the rundown shopping centers and its condition is average at best- and I wouldn't even say it's all that clean. Never in my life have I been on Dupont highway in new castle and had DE envy. Ever.

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

The city itself calls it a pilot still and for your information, this years pilot extension is literally no extension to new neighborhoods at all. Just the same neighborhoods as last year.

5 years into street cleaning and like 20% of the city is being cleaned. It's the definition of incompetence.

Absolutely untrue. They expanded it again for 2024 and it is NOT called a pilot program. If you have a link saying otherwise feel free to show it. They are expanding outward each year from where things started in North, West, SW and SOuth philly. Saying it hasn't changed is flat out lie. It was like half this size when it started. And from the beginning it was noted to be a multi year rollout due to the need to add equipment and manpower and it was delayed by COVID and Kenney's incompetence.

https://www.phila.gov/2024-03-21-san...nning-april-1/

[Justin7]

This is the Groundhog Day of internet forums.

[El Duderino]

If people on this forum spent as much time cleaning up the streets as they did posting about cleaning up the streets, the entire city would be spotless by Thursday.

[Mark in Mount Airy]

Originally Posted by cardeza

First of all, that was a decade ago and secondly, the actual tax on retail sales of gas were not increased because Republicans would never have signed off on it. They did a tax increase on wholesalers of gas and some of that was passed on to consumers, but it was not what was needed and even if it was after 10 years of inflation its inadequate and PA needs a gas tax increase to align with current cost of doing business.

I am personally not opposed to an increase in the gas tax. But we need to realize that Pennsylvania has the third highest gas tax in the nation after California and Illinois, and that it is far higher than any neighboring state. So saying that the gas tax in Pennsylvania is too low, compared to what?

I would argue the bigger problem is that electric vehicles, which experts say are heavy and hard on roads, are exempt from the gas tax and so aren't paying their share of the road usage. And I am not a lover of oil or internal combustion engines.

[Gatorade_Jim]

Originally Posted by Mark in Mount Airy

I am personally not opposed to an increase in the gas tax. But we need to realize that Pennsylvania has the third highest gas tax in the nation after California and Illinois, and that it is far higher than any neighboring state. So saying that the gas tax in Pennsylvania is too low, compared to what?

I would argue the bigger problem is that electric vehicles, which experts say are heavy and hard on roads, are exempt from the gas tax and so aren't paying their share of the road usage. And I am not a lover of oil or internal combustion engines.

Yeah the right place to levy fees is for registration or as a property tax. The rate should be directly tied to the weight of your vehicle. That's the most equitable way to do it. Road wear is a function of vehicle weight, so it stands to reason that if you buy a heavier vehicle like a pickup or an SUV, you should pay more than the person who bought a civic.

[Justin7]

When it comes to road damage, the increase in weight on an EV is a rounding error, and while EV drivers may not contribute to the gas tax they are saving the state orders of magnitude more in medical costs and climate damage mitigation. You're falling for oil industry propaganda.