Burrard Inlet Rapid Transit - Park Royal-Metrotown via 2nd Narrows | BRT/RRT?

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Yes, but no. The Federal funding contribution for the Ontario, Eglinton, Younge North and Scarborough lines is $10.4 bn, so they aren't paying up as much for some more expensive projects. On the other hand the $3.4bn Hamilton LRT they're covering 50%, with the province the other half.

You'd have to create a spreadsheet of Federal funding on transit over time by Province to see how 'fair' any allocations have been.

Obviously we don't have an existing network of non-electric trains to electrify like GO, so some expenditure is going to be legitimately more, where the goal is carbon reduction and lower cost operations.

we definitely get the short end of the stick. from direct funding, to equalization. youd have to include all of our payments to the east in equalization, as a negative to federal funding to the west. even if they stopped stealing out money to send east, we would be able to afford more infrastructure.

but not only do they steal from us, they also deny us the same level of funding.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

we definitely get the short end of the stick. from direct funding, to equalization. youd have to include all of our payments to the east in equalization, as a negative to federal funding to the west. even if they stopped stealing out money to send east, we would be able to afford more infrastructure.

but not only do they steal from us, they also deny us the same level of funding.

Equalization is an entirely different financial program to federal funding for transportation, so it's hardly relevant to a thread about trasit to the North Shore. You do know that BC doesn't make any actual payments for equalization, and that Ontario barely receives any money under equalization? "Provincial governments make no contributions to the Equalization program. All Canadians are subject to the same federal income tax system and its progressive rate structure, regardless of where they live."

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Equalization is an entirely different financial program to federal funding for transportation, so it's hardly relevant to a thread about trasit to the North Shore. You do know that BC doesn't make any actual payments for equalization, and that Ontario barely receives any money under equalization? "Provincial governments make no contributions to the Equalization program. All Canadians are subject to the same federal income tax system and its progressive rate structure, regardless of where they live."

...You do realize that when all provinces are subject to the same federal tax system, and some provinces get equalization payments but BC does not, that literally does mean that BC dollars are being funnelled towards have-not provinces for equalization payments, right? That's called the fungibility of money.

Not making a judgement on the morality of it all, but denying basic facts just breeds discontent.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by chowhou

...You do realize that when all provinces are subject to the same federal tax system, and some provinces get equalization payments but BC does not, that literally does mean that BC dollars are being funnelled towards have-not provinces for equalization payments, right? That's called the fungibility of money.

Not making a judgement on the morality of it all, but denying basic facts just breeds discontent.

Almost everybody pays federal taxes, either income tax or GST. Since 1957 Canada has had a system where some provinces are given some of the federal funds that go into general revenue, and others don't receive anything.

No money is paid by the BC government, or withheld from them, and there is no cheque or direct debit to the federal government to help other provinces, which seems to be how the system was being characterized.

Federal funds allocated for transit are entirely a different story, and I really have no idea whether the larger provinces in the east get more than their fair share, based on population. Certainly larger urban areas which can justify a rail transit system qualify for funds that others don't, but that doesn't seem to be a 'hard done by west' story. Halifax is only a bit smaller than Hamilton, but it's not getting transit funds any time soon.

[chowhou]

I, a British Columbian, pay a dollar to the federal government.

A New Brunswicker pays a dollar to the federal government.

The federal government gives New Brunswick 50c in equalization.

The federal government gives British Columbia nothing in equalization.

New Brunswick got 25c from me.

That should be fairly simple to understand.

[madog222]

Originally Posted by chowhou

I, a British Columbian, pay a dollar to the federal government.

A New Brunswicker pays a dollar to the federal government.

The federal government gives New Brunswick 50c in equalization.

The federal government gives British Columbia nothing in equalization.

New Brunswick got 25c from me.

That should be fairly simple to understand.

That has nothing to do with federal transit funding.

[casper]

Originally Posted by chowhou

I, a British Columbian, pay a dollar to the federal government.

A New Brunswicker pays a dollar to the federal government.

The federal government gives New Brunswick 50c in equalization.

The federal government gives British Columbia nothing in equalization.

New Brunswick got 25c from me.

That should be fairly simple to understand.

It more like you give 25c in tax to the feds. Someone in New Brunswick gives 25c. Shell Canada (and other corporations) gives 25c Various other importing things into the country of living outside of Canada give another 12c. Federal government generates another 12c from other places.

Out of those one dollar, 22c is given out as equalisation. Given only about half of the federal revenue is from personal income tax good luck trying its being taken from people in one region to give to people in another region.

Getting back to transit. Generally its allocated based on population and is used to match projects proposed by the provincial government.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by madog222

That has nothing to do with federal transit funding.

No, but it does affect provincial transit funding when BC does not get any equalization payments.

[Tvisforme]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

....even if they stopped stealing out money to send east, we would be able to afford more infrastructure.

but not only do they steal from us, they also deny us the same level of funding.

You really, really don't understand what "stealing" means.

[BaddieB]

Chowhou, I think based on our other conversation about development fees, is that some people aren't very good at conceptualizing tax burdens.

[Migrant_Coconut]

If anything, it's the territories getting robbed by equalization. Despite paying the same taxes, and being the most underdeveloped part of Canada which would greatly benefit from additional funding, AFAIK they get Nunavut.

Here's the part I don't get though: if Quebec's got the second-highest GDP and higher average wages than Ontario (and only slightly-lower GDP/capita), how come they need 58% of the payments?