West Gatineau LRT & Downtown Loop | Proposed

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

How in Hades is the proposed Kettle Bridge in any way a battle in the Great Patriotic War on Cars?

It is those who both oppose the bridge while also wanting to restrict car traffic downtown. That is the war on cars. Eventually, traffic just bogs down. Transit cannot possibly address suburb to suburb trips, at least, in our current political environment.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by GeoNerd

Putting another city's suburban streetcar down Wellington Street is one of the dumbest ideas I've heard. Bury it or keep it out of downtown Ottawa. The Wellington surface tram only makes sense if you completely turn off your brain to every issue this would cause.

Has it come to this?

But I do agree that Wellington is the worst possible place for a surface tram. Every major event at Parliament Hill will close a trunk transit line.

We have spoken of the heresy of putting a surface tram on Albert and Slater in 2006, but look today, with most buses gone. It would certainly work now, more central to downtown, and away from most protests, crowd events and parades.

What is the plan for Albert and Slater today? Patios in shadows (who really wants to go to that?) and more cycle tracks, just one block from the existing Laurier cycle track.

[J.OT13]

Albert and Slater rebuild will include bike lanes. I do think that cyclists should have more choices than Laurier. Laurier is not the only destination for cyclists. It's like saying we have the Queensway for cars, and Metcalfe, Kent and Lyon bring cars to the Queensway, so lets close all other streets to cars.

Sidewalks will also be widened. They are ridiculously narrow on Albert and Slater at the moment.

I'd say Wellington is the best option as it reduces conflicts with cars. If Wellington is shut off completely to cars, we can also pedestrianize part of Elgin, Metcalfe and O'Connor, reducing the number of intersections the tramway will need to go through.

Can't find the project website for the CBD Albert-Slater, but this gives a good idea.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottaw...-lrt-1.4598796

[zzptichka]

The irony is that had there been a tram on Wellington 2 years ago, there wouldn't have been a convoy. They would've shut it down immediately.

Yes, Wellington is the best place for a tram and only a car brain would suggest to bury it.

But then again, in this city they find it normal to shut down an actual trunk transit line for 2 weeks every summer for maintenance, and nobody bats an eye, so...

[J.OT13]

This is the City that has sit down the Trillium Line twice, once for about 6 months, and now for two years.

[vtecyo]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

This is the City that has sit down the Trillium Line twice, once for about 6 months, and now for two years.

Ackschully - it was planned for 2 years - but so far it's been 4 years and 2 months

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

The irony is that had there been a tram on Wellington 2 years ago, there wouldn't have been a convoy. They would've shut it down immediately.

Yes, Wellington is the best place for a tram and only a car brain would suggest to bury it.

But then again, in this city they find it normal to shut down an actual trunk transit line for 2 weeks every summer for maintenance, and nobody bats an eye, so...

This has nothing to do with having 'a car brain'. It has everything to do with Wellington being closed for all kinds of events including Canada Day or Remembrance Day. And if Wellington is closed to regular traffic, there will be greater temptations for blocking a tramway for protest marches simply because the street is quieter. We have already learned our lesson about convoys and that will never happen again.

[zzptichka]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

This has nothing to do with having 'a car brain'. It has everything to do with Wellington being closed for all kinds of events including Canada Day or Remembrance Day. And if Wellington is closed to regular traffic, there will be greater temptations for blocking a tramway for protest marches simply because the street is quieter. We have already learned our lesson about convoys and that will never happen again.

1) This is not a trunk route. It's a branch that can easily be short-stopped at Bank for a couple of days a year on a weekend if needed.
2) Actual trunk route is Confederation Line that is meant to be closed for 2 weeks every year for maintenance, and apparently it's fine.
3) Portage bridge is closed today (Happy Canada Day!) and would've been closed for the tram, so the point is moot.
4) When protesters block the rails, the cops can start enforcing rules right away because detours are not possible, as opposed to just waiting for the protesters to disperse and doing nothing (that's how Convoy started).

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

1) This is not a trunk route. It's a branch that can easily be short-stopped at Bank for a couple of days a year on a weekend if needed.
2) Actual trunk route is Confederation Line that is meant to be closed for 2 weeks every year for maintenance, and apparently it's fine.
3) Portage bridge is closed today (Happy Canada Day!) and would've been closed for the tram, so the point is moot.
4) When protesters block the rails, the cops can start enforcing rules right away because detours are not possible, as opposed to just waiting for the protesters to disperse and doing nothing (that's how Convoy started).

What? Your definition of trunk line is pretty restrictive. Since when does the Confederation Line serve the Quebec side at all? It doesn't.

I guess, by your standards, the Vancouver's Canada Line is only a branch.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Has it come to this?

But I do agree that Wellington is the worst possible place for a surface tram. Every major event at Parliament Hill will close a trunk transit line.

That's functionally the same as status quo, with no interprovincial transit on Canada Day.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

That's functionally the same as status quo, with no interprovincial transit on Canada Day.

There used to be an interprovincial bus on the interprovincial bridge on Canada Day.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

There used to be an interprovincial bus on the interprovincial bridge on Canada Day.

We used to have a lot of things but now we are so risk adverse we can't have anything nice.

[Acajack]

If you guys want to get depressed look at the Winterlude program from the late 80s approximately.

Or news articles about what was going on on New Year's Eve in Ottawa from that same era.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Acajack

If you guys want to get depressed look at the Winterlude program from the late 80s approximately.

Or news articles about what was going on on New Year's Eve in Ottawa from that same era.

Depressed at how good it was then compared to now?

It's sad people and not a question of money. The no cost events are very successful. All it takes is a bit of organization and the willingness to try.

[zzptichka]

Originally Posted by Acajack

If you guys want to get depressed look at the Winterlude program from the late 80s approximately.

Or news articles about what was going on on New Year's Eve in Ottawa from that same era.

Anecdotally, when I immigrated to Canada with my parents 15 years ago, we went on the Parliament Hill at midnight on NYE. It was dead. There were maybe 20 people other than us.

Now it's completely different. Thousands of people doing the countdown and having fun, and there were even some fireworks several years ago.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

Anecdotally, when I immigrated to Canada with my parents 15 years ago, we went on the Parliament Hill at midnight on NYE. It was dead. There were maybe 20 people other than us.

Now it's completely different. Thousands of people doing the countdown and having fun, and there were even some fireworks several years ago.

Not doubting at all but his is certainly news to me. I did not know there were impromptu gatherings on Parliament Hill on New Year's Eve these days.

When I was younger and lived in Ottawa there was an official celebration on the Hill, with a show and fireworks.

I also wasn't aware of fireworks at midnight on Dec. 31 in the NCR. Usually any downtown fireworks I can hear from my place.

[Kitchissippi]

Winterlude in the 1980's was really good with so much community participation. The snow sculptures on Dow's Lake done by the general public was a highlight. I remember participating with our university group to do one.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

Winterlude in the 1980's was really good with so much community participation. The snow sculptures on Dow's Lake done by the general public was a highlight. I remember participating with our university group to do one.

Yes, there was that plus the huge ice sculpture garden at Confederation Park, waiter's races with trays and glasses, the bed race, old timers' hockey games, a "winter terrace" bar in a temporary wooden building the NAC used to set up with live music...

I am sure I am forgetting stuff as well.

(As for New Year's Eve, the Parliament Hill event I recall had thousands of people, somewhere between 10,000 and 30,000 in my estimation.)

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

What? Your definition of trunk line is pretty restrictive. Since when does the Confederation Line serve the Quebec side at all? It doesn't.

I guess, by your standards, the Vancouver's Canada Line is only a branch.

If you cut the Confederation Line through Downtown, there would be no way for people to travel east-west. If you cut a portion of the downtown tram route, it only adds a short walk. I think that's what zzptichka means.

It would be like closing Waterfront Station in Vancouver a few times a year. Expo and Canada Line would still be fine otherwise.