[Saint John] 91 King Street | ?m | ?s | Site Prep

[OliverD]

Originally Posted by sailor734

56% is quite a significant increase in the number of units for only changing 2 floors of office to residential. perhaps the originally proposed grocery story on the ground floor will be residential as well?

I also wonder if the redesign hasn't seen the individual unit size shrink? An increase to 12 floors of residential from 9 shouldn't give you a 50+% increase in unit count.

It's likely that the units are smaller. That seems to be a trend in smaller cities with increased construction costs and with increases in allowed density. Most of the apartments build pre-COVID in Fredericton were 1100-1400 sq ft for two bedrooms, now many are sub 1000 sq ft.

[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by Pugsley

Agreed, I think that is the item that I dislike as well. Overall, I feel it is a bit "meh" and perhaps an improvement over the last design but it is more of a horizontal move design-wise v. an improvement. IMHO

Would be nice if these were removed and not sure of the need to have a darker grey on the top two floors. At this stage, it might as well just resemble the Irving Oil HQ....which I do like. But everyone has their own taste.

A bit of a setback, even a small one, for the top two floors would look nice. Probably not feasable.

[905er]

it's an improved design, however, I would have preferred a nicer roofline. The corners makes it look like a Pottery Barn dresser turned upside-down. Not a fan of that element.

[Helladog]

Originally Posted by darkharbour

I'm curious what is up in the background of the third render in that image [furthest to the right]. The angle is directed toward the RBC building on the corner of King St., but there is clearly another tall building in the skyline behind it, but there isn't anything that tall in that are there presently. Maybe this is an idea of an infill project in the city's parking lot between Charlotte and Germain, or the development lot on the corner of Princess and Canterbury? I know it could be just an artistic liberty from the rendering, but considering that the Brunswick Square tower is missing in the other oblique view, it seems intentional to have placed any buildings in the background at all.

Looks like artifacts from doing a flip in Photoshop without removing the background. I also notice the new street cutting through Kings Square.

[bridgeoftea]

Originally Posted by Helladog

Looks like artifacts from doing a flip in Photoshop without removing the background. I also notice the new street cutting through Kings Square.

Aren't you aware of the new roundabout around the gazebo?

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by OliverD

It's likely that the units are smaller. That seems to be a trend in smaller cities with increased construction costs and with increases in allowed density. Most of the apartments build pre-COVID in Fredericton were 1100-1400 sq ft for two bedrooms, now many are sub 1000 sq ft.

Would eliminating most balconies also reduce cost significantly?
Seems like “making the numbers work” could result in a building that is more on the budget end of the spectrum. Shame if that’s the case for such a prominent location.

[OliverD]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Would eliminating most balconies also reduce cost significantly?
Seems like “making the numbers work” could result in a building that is more on the budget end of the spectrum. Shame if that’s the case for such a prominent location.

Good point – that would simplify things. Would be nice to offset that with a rooftop patio.

[sailor734]

This report talks about the increased number of residential units and dropping the two floors of office/commercial space. No mention of the once proposed first floor grocery but it does say three levels of parking now vs two. ......That makes me think the ground floor will now be parking.

I'm told Loblaw's had been looking at expanding their urban presence but the idea has been shelved. The new CEO's focus is very much on growing the discount/ NO Frills side of the business.

https://www.thewave.ca/2024/06/28/ne...-john-project/

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by sailor734

This report talks about the increased number of residential units and dropping the two floors of office/commercial space. No mention of the once proposed first floor grocery but it does say three levels of parking now vs two. ......That makes me think the ground floor will now be parking.

I'm told Loblaw's had been looking at expanding their urban presence but the idea has been shelved. The new CEO's focus is very much on growing the discount/ NO Frills side of the business.

https://www.thewave.ca/2024/06/28/ne...-john-project/

The article states, “ a third level of underground parking is being added.” An above ground floor being used for parking would seem like a huge waste.

Gotta hope for the sake of the people who will be living here, and everyone else already living around that area, that the grocery store remains part of the plan. Even without a loading dock, a decent, corner grocer type store is possible.

Brunswick Square still seems like the logical location for a full scale grocery store.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

The article states, “ a third level of underground parking is being added.” An above ground floor being used for parking would seem like a huge waste.

Gotta hope for the sake of the people who will be living here, and everyone else already living around that area, that the grocery store remains part of the plan. Even without a loading dock, a decent, corner grocer type store is possible.

Brunswick Square still seems like the logical location for a full scale grocery store.

Excavating for parking can be hugely expensive given Saint John's rock. Given this project's constant struggle to "make the numbers work" going down that far seems less likely.

I was recently talking to an engineer who was saying he can't understand why more projects in general don't go with an above grade garage the way many Moncton buildings do.

As to the grocery store I understand Loblaws was somewhat interested a few years ago but have since moved away from the idea. Apparently the new CEO is very focused on building the discount/big box end of the business and less so on small urban sized stores.

[Gnarly]

I liked the original better. The original rendering had much more character.

[darkharbour]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Excavating for parking can be hugely expensive given Saint John's rock. Given this project's constant struggle to "make the numbers work" going down that far seems less likely.

I was recently talking to an engineer who was saying he can't understand why more projects in general don't go with an above grade garage the way many Moncton buildings do.

As to the grocery store I understand Loblaws was somewhat interested a few years ago but have since moved away from the idea. Apparently the new CEO is very focused on building the discount/big box end of the business and less so on small urban sized stores.

Those are worse for the urban fabric in a proper city street grid though. That kind of solution works when you are developing in a suburban area or increasing density in existing neighbourhoods, but they take away from the streetscape in a place like Uptown.

[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by Gnarly

I liked the original better. The original rendering had much more character.

Other than the massing, and the somewhat drab podium, the previous render looked like a cast-in-place storage facility.

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

It's a lot better than this monstrosity (originally proposed):

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by darkharbour

Those are worse for the urban fabric in a proper city street grid though. That kind of solution works when you are developing in a suburban area or increasing density in existing neighbourhoods, but they take away from the streetscape in a place like Uptown.

Fair point. In the conversation I referenced we were actually talking about Sea Bird Suites in Millidgeville and how they spent almost a year hammering that reddish conglomerate that is so hard to break.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

Other than the massing, and the somewhat drab podium, the previous render looked like a cast-in-place storage facility.

I always thought it looked like a detention facility in major US city.

[Monctoncore]

The new render, looks great! The top is a bit weird, but overall it will fit in the look of the city. Uptown Saint John has so much beautiful character, I think this will only add to it. As it will blend in at the street level, but no pun intended standout in its height.

[cdnguys]

There were workmen there today. Not exactly sure what they were doing but looked like drilling into the neighboring building’s brick wall.

[cdnguys]

Anyone else worried Percy will use the same faux brick paneling-like material on the Wentworth instead of real brick? Or should be protected as in heritage zone?

[sailor734]

Pretty sure this site isn't in one of the heritage zones.

https://saintjohn.ca/sites/default/f...s%20By-Law.pdf

Page 20 is the map of Trinity Royal

[adamuptownsj]

That side of King is not heritage. What National Bank did to their facade at 71 King is a war crime, all the same.