Canadian LRT/RT projects U/C

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

I think part of the reason the Crosstown is so behind is because Metrolinx is trying to avoid a repeat of Ottawa.

The line is effectively done at this point and could probably open tomorrow if Metrolinx wanted to. They are just being ridiculously rigorous with pre-opening testing.

That explains why the final stretch is taking a while, but doesn't explain why it's 4 years late.

[GeneralLeeTPHLS]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

I think part of the reason the Crosstown is so behind is because Metrolinx is trying to avoid a repeat of Ottawa.

The line is effectively done at this point and could probably open tomorrow if Metrolinx wanted to. They are just being ridiculously rigorous with pre-opening testing.

Yeah, this is how I see it too. But it still infuriates me whenever I walk 5 minutes in any direction to see pristine, well taken care off LRT station buildings (even active landscaping going on) that are fenced off.
The new street redesign of part of Yonge and Eglinton is a good step in the right direction, but with its flaws typical to Toronto or any city cutting corners.

That being said, it is nice to at least have 80% of the street level construction away and done with for now. Until of course the second phase of Eglinton's redesign goes forth.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Stage 3 Ottawa won't happen anytime soon. Doug is using the issues with Stage 1 as an excuse to hold funding, and Mayor "Stop the War on Cars!" agrees.

Funny how Ford thinks Ottawa mismanaged Stage 1 so bad that he's holding funding, but keeps pouring tens of Billions on Metrolinx projects when they can't even get the Crosstown open.

So yeah, GTA projects are not in danger because they are highly supported by the Province, but nothing else will get built anywhere else in Ontario if Skippy gets in.

We all know that when Conservatives get into power, the City of Ottawa stagnates.

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Stage 3 Ottawa won't happen anytime soon. Doug is using the issues with Stage 1 as an excuse to hold funding, and Mayor "Stop the War on Cars!" agrees.

Funny how Ford thinks Ottawa mismanaged Stage 1 so bad that he's holding funding, but keeps pouring tens of Billions on Metrolinx projects when they can't even get the Crosstown open.

So yeah, GTA projects are not in danger because they are highly supported by the Province, but nothing else will get built anywhere else in Ontario if Skippy gets in.

Sounds to me like an issue of municipal politics being different in Ottawa vs. in the GTA. In Ottawa, there's clearly a constituency for "war on cars" rhetoric and anti-transit policy; whereas in Toronto that has largely been relegated to a fringe view and there is instead a fairly bi-partisan consensus on transit development.

Hence, funding transit in Toronto is an easier, more political expedient opportunity for a politician at the provincial or federal level, as it translates directly to support. Why spend precious infrastructure dollars on a city where it's going to be politically contentious and even the mayor supposedly doesn't want it?

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

Sounds to me like an issue of municipal politics being different in Ottawa vs. in the GTA. In Ottawa, there's clearly a constituency for "war on cars" rhetoric and anti-transit policy; whereas in Toronto that has largely been relegated to a fringe view and there is instead a fairly bi-partisan consensus on transit development.

Hence, funding transit in Toronto is an easier, more political expedient opportunity for a politician at the provincial or federal level, as it translates directly to support. Why spend precious infrastructure dollars on a city where it's going to be politically contentious and even the mayor supposedly doesn't want it?

It's always been that way, even when Ottawa had a more progressive City Halls compared to Toronto. Stage 1 and 2, City of Ottawa got less than 33% funding. In fact, City of Ottawa had to pay 50% for Stage 2 ultimately. Meanwhile, the City of Toronto and GTA have continuously received 100% upper level funding for subway lines and commuter rail.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

It's always been that way, even when Ottawa had a more progressive City Halls compared to Toronto. Stage 1 and 2, City of Ottawa got less than 33% funding. In fact, City of Ottawa had to pay 50% for Stage 2 ultimately. Meanwhile, the City of Toronto and GTA have continuously received 100% upper level funding for subway lines and commuter rail.

I'll definitely admit that Toronto gets favoured by higher governments than Ottawa when it comes to money for transit expansion, but I think the roots of that kind of snuck up on higher governments, rather than Toronto being automatically the darling of premiers and prime ministers.

The government of Ontario created GO transit because Toronto extended over multiple regions/counties and there was a clear need for some kind of regional transit provider. As the suburban regions expanded and there was a need for even more regional transit and system integration, Metrolinx was created and swallowed GO. After that, Metrolinx took on a bit of a life of its own, eventually becoming the main stakeholder in building rapid transit of any kind even if it was wholly within a single municipality and didn't really serve any regional travel needs (e.g. Finch LRT).

Since Ottawa's entire metropolitan region on the Ontario side is wholly within what was formerly Ottawa-Carleton, there was never a need to create a parallel agency to OC Transpo to deliver regional transit.

Ottawa is even worse off since 1/4 of the metro population lives in Quebec and the provinces don't coordinate with each other. In any other Canadian city, a LRT connecting Gatineau to downtown Ottawa would have made the Phase 2 priority list and would be u/c by now. In Washington DC, the Federal government by act of Congress created WMATA (operator of the Washington Metro) as a pact between the District, Virginia and Maryland to ensure that the metro system actually served regional needs. This is not on the Feds' radar, but ideally STO and OC Transpo could be merged into something like this.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

Ottawa is even worse off since 1/4 of the metro population lives in Quebec and the provinces don't coordinate with each other. In any other Canadian city, a LRT connecting Gatineau to downtown Ottawa would have made the Phase 2 priority list and would be u/c by now. In Washington DC, the Federal government by act of Congress created WMATA (operator of the Washington Metro) as a pact between the District, Virginia and Maryland to ensure that the metro system actually served regional needs. This is not on the Feds' radar, but ideally STO and OC Transpo could be merged into something like this.

Cooperation between provinces? Or make a NCR that actually encompasses the entire metro? Are you mad?!?

[J.OT13]

Ride the O-Train Line 1/3 train simulator with Rail Fans Canada!

East extension Blair Station to Trim along Highway 174 in Orleans:

• Video Link

West extension from Tunney's Pasture to Algonquin (Line 1) and Moodie (Line 3).

• Video Link

[Coldrsx]

Edmonton's WLRT is well underway.
• Video Link

[Coldrsx]

A few screenshots from the above video.

WEM and its station






The Mis Hospital station


156st/Stony Plain Road


142st


124st


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...Njg0MiwyMzg1MQ

[SpongeG]

cool. how has the other new line been performing?

[Coldrsx]

Generally pretty good. It looks awesome and really adds an urban feel to more of central Edmonton.

“We are seeing over 100,000 trips a day on the Valley Line and that’s been growing month over month,” Rutherford said.

Overall, considering all modes of public transportation, ridership reached 5.3 million in May 2024, “which is phenomenal,” Feldman said.

https://globalnews.ca/news/10564914/...ndemic-levels/

[biguc]

100k daily trips is great! It looks like Edmonton has complemented the new line with some nice place-making along 96th street and there's been some recent development to go with it. It will be great to see the Valley Line catalyze more.

How are plans shaping up for Bonnie Doon? I look forward to that anchoring an extended Whyte Ave (and LRT down Whyte itself).

Also, how are people using the Davies Transit Centre? Is it getting good two-way traffic from people working in its industrial surroundings and downtown commuters?

[Coldrsx]

Bonnie Doon has long term TOD plans that are incredibly ambitious...



Unsure about Davies, but it is very convenient for that area's workers, HS students and otherwise.

[J.OT13]

100k a day? I thought I read articles that said it was far lower than projected a few months ago, something like 15k or whatever? Did it take a while for people to get on board (no pun intended)?

EDIT: they expected 30k a day, but ridership was 6k a day.

https://andrewknack.ca/blog/valley-line-lrt

https://globalnews.ca/video/10322094...it-in-edmonton

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

Bonnie Doon has long term TOD plans that are incredibly ambitious...



Unsure about Davies, but it is very convenient for that area's workers, HS students and otherwise.

Very nice! Morguard owns the St. Laurent Shopping Centre in Ottawa, directly linked to an underground O-Train Station. They've done absolutely no future planning for the site. Very disappointing.

[Coldrsx]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

100k a day? I thought I read articles that said it was far lower than projected a few months ago, something like 15k or whatever? Did it take a while for people to get on board (no pun intended)?

EDIT: they expected 30k a day, but ridership was 6k a day.

https://andrewknack.ca/blog/valley-line-lrt

https://globalnews.ca/video/10322094...it-in-edmonton

Yeah, I thought it was 75-85k to be honest and yes, it did take awhile to get people onboard.

Transit in Edmonton is near pre-pandemic now.

I cannot wait to see what the WLRT will do for movement and growth nodes in the city.

[Coldrsx]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Very nice! Morguard owns the St. Laurent Shopping Centre in Ottawa, directly linked to an underground O-Train Station. They've done absolutely no future planning for the site. Very disappointing.

Well... in more than 5-6 yrs they have only repaved a lot and added some better connection to LRT, so we will see...

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

Yeah, I thought it was 75-85k to be honest and yes, it did take awhile to get people onboard.

Transit in Edmonton is near pre-pandemic now.

I cannot wait to see what the WLRT will do for movement and growth nodes in the city.

Some impressive numbers for sure. That's comparable to Canada Line's first full non-Olympic year.

[Innsertnamehere]

Are we sure those numbers are right? I'm far from an expert on Edmonton transit but they seem suspiciously high. The entire LRT network in Edmonton prior to the Valley Line opening was reporting 85,000 daily riders and that was on a network which has had decades to build ridership patterns.