Trillium Line Upgrades & Extension (Stage 2) [Greenboro to Airport/Limebank] | U/C

[ponyboycurtis]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Closed in Spring 2020, was supposed to re-open Summer 2022.

I was speaking of the pathway from Juno bridge specifically. It stayed open for the initial portion of construction thankfully.

Continuing on about our speculation of the day to day operations of the train, when I was avoiding the rain yesterday and skipping the walk home...

A single Airport train shows up in the northbound track(I've seen them arrive in the southbound track more often than not?) The train was labeled Bayview. It stopped in the middle of the platform, so the train was centered with the yellow wickets.. and then the driver switched sides... departed southbound with the train still labeled Bayview. I am confuse!

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by ponyboycurtis

I was speaking of the pathway from Juno bridge specifically. It stayed open for the initial portion of construction thankfully.

Continuing on about our speculation of the day to day operations of the train, when I was avoiding the rain yesterday and skipping the walk home...

A single Airport train shows up in the northbound track(I've seen them arrive in the southbound track more often than not?) The train was labeled Bayview. It stopped in the middle of the platform, so the train was centered with the yellow wickets.. and then the driver switched sides... departed southbound with the train still labeled Bayview. I am confuse!

We have to test the inevitable closure of the north half of the line. I have seen test single Lint trains on Line 2, which have run north from South Keys.

[SL123]

Not sure how recent this is or if its already been posted here but It was my first time seeing the old carleton Station Art put back in place.

[bartlebooth]

The pedestrian bridge across the Rideau River at Carleton is open now according to the university and news outlets.

Link

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by SL123

Not sure how recent this is or if its already been posted here but It was my first time seeing the old carleton Station Art put back in place.

I was wondering when that was finally going to go back up

[Uhuniau]

Last time I was at Carleton two or three weeks ago, it wasn't up.

I am still mad at the patheticnessosity of that station.

[ponyboycurtis]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Last time I was at Carleton two or three weeks ago, it wasn't up.

I am still mad at the patheticnessosity of that station.

InDEED! For all the grand entrances to the new stations along the line there surely could have been room in the budget for a better platform here. Think of all the out of town and international students that you could have made a minor impression on. Step up to the plate man.

Aside from Mooney's Bay, it's easily the most unimpressive station along the line while being the busiest by far. Typical Ottawa logic.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by ponyboycurtis

Aside from Mooney's Bay, it's easily the most unimpressive station along the line while being the busiest by far. Typical Ottawa logic.

It was Careton's mistake not to locate its campus in Leitrim.

[DTcrawler]

Originally Posted by ponyboycurtis

InDEED! For all the grand entrances to the new stations along the line there surely could have been room in the budget for a better platform here. Think of all the out of town and international students that you could have made a minor impression on. Step up to the plate man.

Aside from Mooney's Bay, it's easily the most unimpressive station along the line while being the busiest by far. Typical Ottawa logic.

Two key stations, Carleton and Dow's Lake, look more like they belong in suburban Houston while stations surrounded by overgrown empty fields like Limebank are built almost to Line 1 standards. Oh that's right, because they're meant for "TOD" (but really, a few fast food chains with drive thrus, a Shopper's, a bank (also with a drive thru) and a cell phone repair shop).

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by phil235

It was Careton's mistake not to locate its campus in Leitrim.

Right in the middle of the old Leitrim garbage dump (immediately west of the station).

[MountainView]

Carleton Station - June 20, 2024

[zzptichka]

Originally Posted by MountainView

Carleton Station - June 20, 2024

Awesome. Did you get any photos of the Hospital site?

[OCCheetos]

The latest "New Ways to Bus" update shows the addition of the N10 which will replace Line 4 and the northern part of Line 2 at night.

A pretty substantial addition to the night service network.

It's not clear what that means for the N98, which was also supposed to connect the airport to downtown overnight.

I have been told that the N98 will run between South Keys and Rideau (via Hurdman), with the N10 taking over service to the airport. Either way, a nice addition!

[kmcamp]

Given that the "New ways to bus" update also indicates they are starting to put up the new route signage seems to indicate they are banking on Line 2 opening by the Fall, yet the fact they are going to cover the signs seems to indicate they are hedging their bets and aren't ready to commit to a date

[lrt's friend]

There was a fairly large fire at an auto shop next to the Hunt Club Transitway loop this afternoon. I wandered over to have a look and then I realized I had an alternative access to the Line 2 right of way.

I made some interesting observations:

1. The Hunt Club Road bridge MUP was open to cross, at least while I was there. I have a sneaking suspicion that it is not officially opened and may be closed at certain times, like after normal working hours. The north end of the bridge was gated, open while I was there, but could easily be closed.
2. The link from that MUP to Bridle Path, immediately behind the Hunt Club Transitway loop is also open.
3. The MUP going south is far from ready. It is nothing more than a rough track. No real work has been done. I doubt that it will be completed this year.
4. The old pathway going south from South Keys station has been eliminated and the new path was sort of open. When I was there, they asked me to leave, because they wanted to close the gates. The same situation as the walkway to the Juno pedestrian bridge before it finally opened. I am not sure why the walkway needed to be gated when paving of the new walkway has been completed.
5. The next train signs on the South Keys platform were mostly working, but their were glitches. Phantom trains were occasionally displayed. There was flipping between Line 2 and 4 for the Airport, hiccups. Airport trains were shown as Line 2 for a second or two, before it correctly displayed Line 4.
6. The airport trains were running on a 12 minute schedule steadily.
7. The mainline trains were not running on a 12 minute schedule, missing trips, delays, etc.
8. It appears that they were trying to have a 6 minute wait time between mainline and airport trains. However, this was not entirely true. Yes, southbound there was about a 6 minute wait before the airport train arrived. But the real wait time was about 10 minutes, with the airport train waiting at least 4 minutes at South Keys station before it departed. Going in the opposite direction was worse. The airport train would depart just as the northbound train arrived, so a 12 minute wait. Southbound, there was about a 6 or 7 minute wait, 4 minutes while the airport train sat at South Keys and an additional 2 minutes before the southbound mainline was allowed to enter the station.

I have mentioned before how South Keys is going to make or break the line reliability because both Line 2 and 4 have to share this station. More specifically, it is the use of the southbound platform. The airport train is requiring at least 8 minutes of each 12 minute slot, to arrive, for the operator to change ends and to depart. Arrival and departure, is not just about the platform itself, but passing the signal south of Hunt Club in both directions. Only one train can be in that slot between the signal north of South Keys and the signal south of Hunt Club.

This is further telling me that there is no possibility of improving frequency. Double tracking Walkley accomplishes nothing, because of that tight time slot at South Keys, and the likelihood that the airport shuttle cannot operate at a 10 minute frequency. This is why the airport shuttle uses the southbound platform. The trains could not complete the 12 minute cycle when using the pocket track. Unless, we are prepared to double track north of South Keys, so that airport trains can also proceed to Bayview, we are likely stuck with 12 minute frequency, which as far as I have seen, is still not proven on the mainline with tests so far.

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

There was a fairly large fire at an auto shop next to the Hunt Club Transitway loop this afternoon. I wandered over to have a look and then I realized I had an alternative access to the Line 2 right of way.

I made some interesting observations:

1. The Hunt Club Road bridge MUP was open to cross, at least while I was there. I have a sneaking suspicion that it is not officially opened and may be closed at certain times, like after normal working hours. The north end of the bridge was gated, open while I was there, but could easily be closed.
2. The link from that MUP to Bridle Path, immediately behind the Hunt Club Transitway loop is also open.
3. The MUP going south is far from ready. It is nothing more than a rough track. No real work has been done. I doubt that it will be completed this year.
4. The old pathway going south from South Keys station has been eliminated and the new path was sort of open. When I was there, they asked me to leave, because they wanted to close the gates. The same situation as the walkway to the Juno pedestrian bridge before it finally opened. I am not sure why the walkway needed to be gated when paving of the new walkway has been completed.
5. The next train signs on the South Keys platform were mostly working, but their were glitches. Phantom trains were occasionally displayed. There was flipping between Line 2 and 4 for the Airport, hiccups. Airport trains were shown as Line 2 for a second or two, before it correctly displayed Line 4.
6. The airport trains were running on a 12 minute schedule steadily.
7. The mainline trains were not running on a 12 minute schedule, missing trips, delays, etc.
8. It appears that they were trying to have a 6 minute wait time between mainline and airport trains. However, this was not entirely true. Yes, southbound there was about a 6 minute wait before the airport train arrived. But the real wait time was about 10 minutes, with the airport train waiting at least 4 minutes at South Keys station before it departed. Going in the opposite direction was worse. The airport train would depart just as the northbound train arrived, so a 12 minute wait. Southbound, there was about a 6 or 7 minute wait, 4 minutes while the airport train sat at South Keys and an additional 2 minutes before the southbound mainline was allowed to enter the station.

I have mentioned before how South Keys is going to make or break the line reliability because both Line 2 and 4 have to share this station. More specifically, it is the use of the southbound platform. The airport train is requiring at least 8 minutes of each 12 minute slot, to arrive, for the operator to change ends and to depart. Arrival and departure, is not just about the platform itself, but passing the signal south of Hunt Club in both directions. Only one train can be in that slot between the signal north of South Keys and the signal south of Hunt Club.

This is further telling me that there is no possibility of improving frequency. Double tracking Walkley accomplishes nothing, because of that tight time slot at South Keys, and the likelihood that the airport shuttle cannot operate at a 10 minute frequency. This is why the airport shuttle uses the southbound platform. The trains could not complete the 12 minute cycle when using the pocket track. Unless, we are prepared to double track north of South Keys, so that airport trains can also proceed to Bayview, we are likely stuck with 12 minute frequency, which as far as I have seen, is still not proven on the mainline with tests so far.

They don't seem to be running all 9 trains, which is why they aren't matching frequency. I pass by South keys almost daily, and I've seen much faster than 12 minutes and much slower as well. I don't feel as concerned about them maintaining 12 minute frequency, but I do think the service will end up like the service of old, with lots of sitting around waiting for a train to pass

[kmcamp]

One thing that really does concern me though is that places like Findlay Creek are now totally disconnected from the rest of the bus system and are dependent on line 2. At least with the confed line there's always alternate routes available. You don't have to use R1 if you're willing to take a slower route. Not the case with line 2, there's no other option

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by kmcamp

One thing that really does concern me though is that places like Findlay Creek are now totally disconnected from the rest of the bus system and are dependent on line 2. At least with the confed line there's always alternate routes available. You don't have to use R1 if you're willing to take a slower route. Not the case with line 2, there's no other option

I have pointed this out to OC and my city councillor, and they don't care. Ridership between Blossom Park and Leitrim/Findlay Creek is expendable. The current bus route which serves more or less the Bank Street corridor is being done away with even though Line 2 is not within a walkable distance. I know people who are transit dependent and they are being left without any reasonable service, in areas which are not at all pedestrian friendly. I fear screwed up trains will make Findlay Creek very unreliable to reach by transit. Any hiccup with the single track sections or at South Keys, will send the service off schedule and difficult to get it back on track. There are a lot of low income/immigrant families in Blossom Park and an increasing number of retail jobs in Leitrim/Findlay Creek, which become inaccessible.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by kmcamp

They don't seem to be running all 9 trains, which is why they aren't matching frequency. I pass by South keys almost daily, and I've seen much faster than 12 minutes and much slower as well. I don't feel as concerned about them maintaining 12 minute frequency, but I do think the service will end up like the service of old, with lots of sitting around waiting for a train to pass

This is a symptom of problems with trains not on schedule and gaps in the opposite direction, allowing two trains to go in one direction in less than 12 minutes. I have seen that happen and this does not suggest that trains can run more frequently.

Unlike you, I don't share your confidence. Not once have I seen trains on the mainline running on a 12 minute schedule for any reasonable length of time, like 1 hour.

We are at the end of June, and no word of final testing, which will need to happen soon if we expect a Labour Day launch. If final testing does not begin by mid July, forget Line 2 for the opening of Carleton, and what happens with revised bus routes and schedules?

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Unlike you, I don't share your confidence. Not once have I seen trains on the mainline running on a 12 minute schedule for any reasonable length of time, like 1 hour.

Train scheduling is a well understood math problem including allowances for delays and buffer time. Even with our general incompetence in rail projects, I really don't think the line is incapable of supporting an average 12 minute headway. Engineers wouldn't have designed the tolerances to be that tight. Also, since these trains aren't automated like the confed line, they aren't likely to be as clockwork, and they would probably have an expected a variability of +- 1-2 minutes in the schedule. These variances probably will average out to 12 minutes. You're not likely to be standing there for 30 minutes waiting for a train, but it might be from 10 to 14 minutes, usually landing around 12ish.

The testing criteria is tighter though, +/- 30 seconds

"The 14-day test requires a minimum of 98.5 per cent on-time performance, calculated using a 14-day rolling average of the on-time performance achieved each day. The city defines 98.5 per cent on time performance as "a train departing the terminus station no later than 30 seconds after its scheduled departure time, while respecting a minimum terminus dwell time of three minutes."