AUSTIN | ABIA Updates

[GoldenBoot]

Originally Posted by wwmiv

Provo is its own MSA as well, much larger than the size of Killeen (732k v 501k), and the location of the Killeen regional airport is on the same distance from downtown Austin as the towns you mentioned.

Yes. I know. Provo-Orem-Lehi. It is also a component of the Greater Salt Lake City CSA ("Salt Lake-Provo-Orem" - home to just over 2.8 million).

The locations I listed were right on the outskirts of a 50-mile circle radiating from downtown Austin. As the crow flies, GRK is roughly 56 miles from CBD Austin.

Bottom line point - Austin does need another commercial airport!

[Mikey711MN]

1x daily on E175 starts in Oct 2024

Not sure if any changes are planned to AUS-MFE, but that could be something to watch.

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by GoldenBoot

There is very little reason for a second commercial airport in the Austin metro area. Maybe when the met's population approaches 5 or 6 million. But, that is decades away.

Originally Posted by GoldenBoot

Yes. I know. Provo-Orem-Lehi. It is also a component of the Greater Salt Lake City CSA ("Salt Lake-Provo-Orem" - home to just over 2.8 million).

The locations I listed were right on the outskirts of a 50-mile circle radiating from downtown Austin. As the crow flies, GRK is roughly 56 miles from CBD Austin.

Bottom line point - Austin does need another commercial airport!

Does or does not?

I would argue that GRK is well positioned to capitalize on the regional growth. As we both mention, it is within a reasonable commute difference and becoming moreso with better infrastructure connections and the growth of the northern suburbs. Airports are not dime a dozen infrastructure and new airports should only be pursued when we max out the build-out capacity of the existing ABIA land area. Not only is that bad land-use policy (airports are HUGE expanses of land, and they generally are surrounded by significant amounts of industrial land none of which are suitable as good neighbors to residential areas. To the degree possible, any and all additions to air infrastructure capacity should be kept on the existing footprint. If/when they cannot, eminent domain of adjacent parcels should be pursued first and foremost before any new airports somewhere else are built from scratch. San Antonio had this relocation battle before settling on an expansion and renovation plan of their existing facilities, which is the smart choice.

Also: San Marcos is perhaps the better bet for cargo expansion, being centrally located between Austin and San Antonio. IIRC, isn’t there some push for that?

These four airports (SAT, ABIA, GRK, and HYI) plus the handful of smaller facilities, including Austin Executive) when considering expansion potential are enough for the entire region even if we ever approach 10 million people. We don’t need to waste more land on this infrastructure for some major new cohesive regional intercontinental airport until Austin and San Antonio are without a doubt a single urban entity anchoring a broader region of 15+ million.

[drummer]

I agree with wwmiv. The proximity of all of these other airports that already include commercial passenger service (specifically Killeen and San Antonio) remove any need for another one in the Austin metro. Those will grow also. San Antonio may hit its cap sooner given the growth all around it, but I seem to remember that they're still actively expanding it, or planning to, right?

Killeen has room to grow, and obviously supports the base.

San Marcos would make a phenomenal location for a cargo-specific airport (a la Alliance in Fort Worth). I think this is especially true with the new road better connecting it to I-35 and the opportunity for easy connections to 130, just a few miles to the east. There's also a nearby UP line (just south of the airport) - unsure what opportunities that may or may not bring.

[Scuba]

Originally Posted by Mikey711MN

1x daily on E175 starts in Oct 2024

Not sure if any changes are planned to AUS-MFE, but that could be something to watch.

https://atxjetsetter.com/post/delta-...ingen-flights/

I read elsewhere that this is a new city on the map for Delta, but net the same # of flights intra-Texas for Delta at Austin. They are dropping one flight to Midland and moving it to one flight a day to Harlingen. I guess they have a certain fixed number of planes to fly, and just one flight will move, effective in October

[Tyrone Shoes]

Originally Posted by Scuba

https://atxjetsetter.com/post/delta-...ingen-flights/

I read elsewhere that this is a new city on the map for Delta, but net the same # of flights intra-Texas for Delta at Austin. They are dropping one flight to Midland and moving it to one flight a day to Harlingen. I guess they have a certain fixed number of planes to fly, and just one flight will move, effective in October

Look for additional Austin to other Texas cities on Delta. Corpus and maybe Laredo, San Angelo, or Abilene.

[LightChop]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoes

Look for additional Austin to other Texas cities on Delta. Corpus and maybe Laredo, San Angelo, or Abilene.

ABI would be very tough. Envoy has had a maintenance base there for a long time and AA has no problem flying 4 flights from DFW to shuttle nearly empty planes for maintenance.

United (Continental) has tried it many times in the past only to pull out months later. UA doesn’t serve SJT either.

I like the idea of LRD and CRP in the future. Adding an MSY and more Florida would bolster connections.

[uhhh_idk]

I can reasonably see Delta adding LBB and AMA: decent amount of O&D generated from these cities and they'd be new destinations in the Delta network. Unless Delta doesn't want to further compete with Southwest on intra-Texas routes.

[ATX2030]

Condor reducing flights from from Frankfurt to San Antonio from 3x weekly to 2x weekly as well as shortening the season from 16 weeks to 14 weeks for '25. Doesn't look good and more than likely Condor will pull out after the '25 season. This bodes well for AUS and the long-term viability for Austin's route to Frankfurt on Lufthansa.

[Tornado]

Originally Posted by ATX2030

Condor reducing flights from from Frankfurt to San Antonio from 3x weekly to 2x weekly as well as shortening the season from 16 weeks to 14 weeks for '25. Doesn't look good and more than likely Condor will pull out after the '25 season. This bodes well for AUS and the long-term viability for Austin's route to Frankfurt on Lufthansa.

I don't think any SA international flight was ever going to threaten anything out of ABIA. I hope the Condor flight can sustain and they can figure out what they need to do to make it a sustaining seasonal. Agree it doesn't look good at the moment but they have time to fix.

The one thing I appreciate is our city leaders are focused on increasing flights in and out of SAT which is different from years past.

Like I posted in the SAT thread, here is the link to the proposed '25 summer schedule.

https://www.condor.com/us/generated/timetable_S2025.pdf

[ATX2030]

Originally Posted by Tornado

I don't think any SA international flight was ever going to threaten anything out of ABIA. I hope the Condor flight can sustain and they can figure out what they need to do to make it a sustaining seasonal. Agree it doesn't look good at the moment but they have time to fix.

The one thing I appreciate is our city leaders are focused on increasing flights in and out of SAT which is different from years past.

Like I posted in the SAT thread, here is the link to the proposed '25 summer schedule.

https://www.condor.com/us/generated/timetable_S2025.pdf

Like it or not the two airports do compete for service and passengers. Long haul service is extremely competitive. SAT is the only N. America destination served by Condor that will see a reduction in service from '24 to '25. Not only is SAT competing against AUS and Lufthansa but they are also competing against all the other airports that currently have Condor or want service.

AUS is no stranger to losing long haul service. Case in point, Virgin Atlantic ending service and redeploying the aircraft on a more lucrative route.

[Tornado]

Originally Posted by ATX2030

Like it or not the two airports do compete for service and passengers. Long haul service is extremely competitive. SAT is the only N. America destination served by Condor that will see a reduction in service from '24 to '25. Not only is SAT competing against AUS and Lufthansa but they are also competing against all the other airports that currently have Condor or want service.

AUS is no stranger to losing long haul service. Case in point, Virgin Atlantic ending service and redeploying the aircraft on a more lucrative route.

Oh I know they compete, I just don’t believe SA having a successful flight would hurt Austin. I think a lot of passengers are flying through connecting cities like Houston or Dallas when they go to Europe from SA.

Igive my friends a hard time every time they fly out of austin instead of SA when going to domestic locations. Right now, the condor flight feels like air Canada from a few years ago which isn’t good.

[Scuba]

Say goodbye to the Allegiant base at Austin. It opened in 2021 but as of January, is no more.

They also just cut a 4 nonstop cities from Austin. Hopefully they'll add more flights back eventually. the cities Allegiant cut were Las Vegas, Omaha, Washington Dulles, and Eugene Oregon.

https://airlinegeeks.com/2024/06/23/...tin-crew-base/

I don't see more Delta cities added until there is more space in the terminal for Delta to have gates at. A couple of rando towns in Texas from Austin on a regional airline small aircraft of Delta's is not going to compete well for a passenger experience with full size planes on Southwest or American or Delta if they can fly thru Dallas or Houston or wherever, in my opinion.

[GoldenBoot]

Originally Posted by Scuba

Say goodbye to the Allegiant base at Austin. It opened in 2021 but as of January, is no more.

They also just cut a 4 nonstop cities from Austin. Hopefully they'll add more flights back eventually. the cities Allegiant cut were Las Vegas, Omaha, Washington Dulles, and Eugene Oregon.

https://airlinegeeks.com/2024/06/23/...tin-crew-base/

I don't see more Delta cities added until there is more space in the terminal for Delta to have gates at. A couple of rando towns in Texas from Austin on a regional airline small aircraft of Delta's is not going to compete well for a passenger experience with full size planes on Southwest or American or Delta if they can fly thru Dallas or Houston or wherever, in my opinion.

This was foreseen as Allegiant is loosing the South Terminal as its base of operations. And, there are not as many available slots in the BJT to keep it going. There is a potential they will reconsider opening it up (again) upon completion of more gates.

As for Delta using regional jets to smaller Texas locations - pretty much all the airlines are using the same equipment to said locations - regardless of origination. Delta still has some leeway in gate usage and allocation in the BJT.

[ATX2030]

May 2024 was the busiest month on record at AUS.

2,068,404

https://www.kxan.com/news/local/aust...ssenger-stats/

https://www.austintexas.gov/news/may...stin-bergstrom

[gillynova]

Damn, I actually just used Allegiant to fly into Las Vegas in May