Winnipeg City Transit/Rapid Transit

[BlackDog204]

Originally Posted by EdwardTH

At the end of the day, you couldn't do much on Pembina anyway other than a glorified bus lane, which if I understand correctly is essentially part of the master plan anyway. Putting a grade-separated line on Pembina would cost billions and would simply never happen. With the dog leg we get an actual separated line which is (slowly) creating TOD, and we'll still get the souped-up bus lane on Pembina too.

You are correct. Putting a grade separated line on Pembina Hwy would ahve cost too much. That is why some civil engineers and city planners were pushing for the line to be located along the rail line ROW directly parallel to Pembina.

I have no idea having a grade separated line on Pembina was even considered.

[BlackDog204]

Originally Posted by optimusREIM

Our cheapness when it comes to building stuff drives me nuts. Fare-paid zones are the golbal standard for good transit.

^ well said.

Maybe we can install some toll booths if we plan on making the Perimeter Hwy limited access, or at any extension along the inner city beltway.

[BlackDog204]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

The problem with the BRT is paying fares at the bus door. Need to pay the fares prior to boarding to eliminate the delays associated with 80 people paying the fare at the door.

As we speak, the City of Edmonton is constructing turnstyles at entry points for most of their LRT stations. This will serve to make the lines safer (there are dozens of drug addicts loitering, and smoking meth in the open, as well as mentally unstable people just scaring transit users away).

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by BlackDog204

^ well said.

Maybe we can install some toll booths if we plan on making the Perimeter Hwy limited access, or at any extension along the inner city beltway.

Totally onboard, make it some nominal fee, it doesn't have to be a ton, but enough that it can generate a little revenue to help upgrade and maintain other strategic corridors in the province. That said, pushback would be immense.

[3de14eec6a]

Originally Posted by optimusREIM

Totally onboard, make it some nominal fee, it doesn't have to be a ton, but enough that it can generate a little revenue to help upgrade and maintain other strategic corridors in the province. That said, pushback would be immense.

I'd spin it as a way to fund getting rid of the at grade intersections/rail crossings on the perimeter as well. Start paying a bit now, and it will get faster sooner.

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by 3de14eec6a

I'd spin it as a way to fund getting rid of the at grade intersections/rail crossings on the perimeter as well. Start paying a bit now, and it will get faster sooner.

It's not a bad pitch, but I fear that it would not be able to clear the hurdle of pissed off motorists.

[EdwardTH]

Originally Posted by BlackDog204

You are correct. Putting a grade separated line on Pembina Hwy would ahve cost too much. That is why some civil engineers and city planners were pushing for the line to be located along the rail line ROW directly parallel to Pembina.

I have no idea having a grade separated line on Pembina was even considered.

But then wouldn't you still have like a dozen streets to cross at-grade? Is it really any faster than the dog leg if the buses have to stop at all those lights? I suppose you can sync them up when they detect a bus coming but it's also going to mess with traffic having all those new lights on the side streets 50 meters away from Pembina

[FactaNV]

Originally Posted by EdwardTH

But then wouldn't you still have like a dozen streets to cross at-grade? Is it really any faster than the dog leg if the buses have to stop at all those lights? I suppose you can sync them up when they detect a bus coming but it's also going to mess with traffic having all those new lights on the side streets 50 meters away from Pembina

Seems like a wash to me. What really slows down the Blue line is the lack of fare paid zones and too many stops. Clarence station does not need to exist 350 m from Chevrolet station.

[Kinguni]

Originally Posted by FactaNV

Seems like a wash to me. What really slows down the Blue line is the lack of fare paid zones and too many stops. Clarence station does not need to exist 350 m from Chevrolet station.

Clarence Station has a large park and ride as well as connecting with the 680/681. Chevrier Station connects for the 649, as well as service for a large number of industrial workers nearby.

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by Kinguni

Clarence Station has a large park and ride as well as connecting with the 680/681. Chevrier Station connects for the 649, as well as service for a large number of industrial workers nearby.

Right but that can be designed differently from the outset. Why wasn’t it.

[reallycoolguy]

.

[BlackDog204]

Originally Posted by EdwardTH

But then wouldn't you still have like a dozen streets to cross at-grade? Is it really any faster than the dog leg if the buses have to stop at all those lights? I suppose you can sync them up when they detect a bus coming but it's also going to mess with traffic having all those new lights on the side streets 50 meters away from Pembina

It's closer to 1/2 dozen as the city would close off 2-3 of the streets that would intersect the BRT. In addition, they would build a overpasse/underpass in the most congested areas, like they did with the dog leg route.

Having the BRT parallel the rail line would have provided service to the high density areas along Pembina, and the high school. Instead they built the route in an area where people use vehicles to commute. So not only esthetic BRT commute longer, but it serves less of its targeted population.

[FactaNV]

Maaaaan, Saskatoon can get a fully funded BRT and we're stuck with fuck all for another decade. Right in the feels.

https://thestarphoenix.com/news/loca...-fully-forward

[Arcticwolf33]

This tells us how screwed up our Province of Manitoba is! You figure Brandon and Saskatoon are about the same size give and take. Yet they have a leg up with their plans moving full steam ahead.

Our City is running a circus show of unable to get anything done that includes:

#1 Complete all the BRT routes by 2030. Won't happen!
#2 Complete the Cheif Pegus Trail. Who know when this will happen.
#3 The Arlington bridge needs to be replaced. This is a no brainer for all of us to figure out. Someone explain it to Public Works and city councilors.
#4 The Lousie Bridge needs to be replaced. Not 30yrs from now! Same as #3 pretty much.
#5 Keneston to Route 90 is a circus show itself along with the overpass from Academy rd to the Polo Park area.
#6 Brandon will want to their BRT going one day.

All talk, no action! Yet people who own their homes and pay taxes should step forward and speak up about the government and City Hall scratching their butts insteading of asking for grants from Ottawa for help to scratch their butts.

This must be rocket science for our government and city hall not able to figure out.
Someone mail them instructions with how to call Ottawa and email them on what is needed.
At the end the end of the day. They'll all get a dog biscuit and a scratch behind the ear for being good. Sigh!

[pegster]

^I get the complaints, but just on the facts, Saskatoon (pop. ~300k) is about 6 times the size of Brandon (pop. ~50k).

[EdwardTH]

Let's keep this in perspective though. Saskatoon's "BRT" is actually just sharing the roadway with cars for 90% of the lines. There are only 3km that are separated and the rest is just a glorified bus lane. Most of the money is going to new buses and stations, no overpasses or new lanes. If they were building this here and calling it "fully funded BRT" we would be tearing it apart.

[FactaNV]

Originally Posted by EdwardTH

Let's keep this in perspective though. Saskatoon's "BRT" is actually just sharing the roadway with cars for 90% of the lines. There are only 3km that are separated and the rest is just a glorified bus lane. Most of the money is going to new buses and stations, no overpasses or new lanes. If they were building this here and calling it "fully funded BRT" we would be tearing it apart.

I suppose that's some good perspective, but it doesn't excuse the city for dithering for years on the infrastructure side of the house.

[Kinguni]

Originally Posted by BlackDog204

It's closer to 1/2 dozen as the city would close off 2-3 of the streets that would intersect the BRT. In addition, they would build a overpasse/underpass in the most congested areas, like they did with the dog leg route.

Having the BRT parallel the rail line would have provided service to the high density areas along Pembina, and the high school. Instead they built the route in an area where people use vehicles to commute. So not only esthetic BRT commute longer, but it serves less of its targeted population.

The only bridge they would have built would have been of Bishop Grandin.

Read the report: https://info.winnipegtransit.com/ass...ptions-web.pdf

[BlackDog204]

Originally Posted by Kinguni

The only bridge they would have built would have been of Bishop Grandin.

Read the report: https://info.winnipegtransit.com/ass...ptions-web.pdf

That is sad. This city has no ambition.

Even with all at-grade stops, the the 2nd plan (along the rail ROW) was the superior route. I just hope the city does not mess up the next BRT route, but my gut feeling is they will. I really do not fully trust any "study" conducted by the City of Winnipeg. I would much rather prefer studies completed by an impartial source.

[rebl]

I'd just like to play devils advocate here. Why would servicing a high-school be important for BRT? The population going to a high-school is predominantly local.

Also, I'd actually argue the route they chose demonstrates the city has ambition since it lends itself to upgrading to free flowing traffic...which as stated in the report is not possible if they used the rail ROW.

Pembina is not the high density area people make it out to be. But there are a ton of opportunities along the route they chose to increase density dramatically. I would judge the city on how that goes since that is entirely up I the air. But you can't tell me the potential isn't there. Even if it doesn't...it serves a huge industrial district where I can actually see people taking the BRT from other parts of the city to work.