Heavy Rail, Commuter Rail, & Intercity Transportation

[Migrant_Coconut]

They are twinning tracks near Glen Drive (there was some NIMBY rage about it a while ago)… that’s about it.

[madog222]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

They are twinning tracks near Glen Drive (there was some NIMBY rage about it a while ago)… that’s about it.

Back in 2019 CN said they were and that it would be complete by the end of 2020. For now that plan seems to be dead especially as they had no interest in throwing a little money into the Prior/Venables grade separation design.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by mcj

There's two major examples. Your claim of it being "simply not true" is disingenuous at best.

You don't get to say "here's two examples of them not upgrading" to make the argument that they aren't constantly upgrading. Or are they supposed to be adding one more track everywhere always? There are so many untouched SFHs in Vancouver, so there must not be continuous construction in Vancouver I guess?

CN just a couple of years ago upgraded the Thornton Tunnel along with triple tracking Willingdon to Burnaby Lake, CP and the Port of Vancouver are constantly pushing out the shoreline as they widen the railbed along Burrard Inlet, and there are significant rail upgrades planned for the RBT2 expansion.

There are also a lot of upgrades you don't see, CN is pumping lots of dollars into upgrading the entire corridor from Prince Rupert to Edmonton.

It's disingenous to say that they "refuse to upgrade the infrastructure that was built over a century ago".

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

No, because of foreign billionaires parking all their money in Swiss bank accounts in order to dodge taxes back home - it's a common practice which most people are aware of, and not one which Canada should keep emulating. The Swiss have the fourth shortest work week in the world and don't take calls outside of business hours, so if anything, Canadians have a "stronger" work mentality with nothing to show for it.

Also BTW, a Zurich-Bern one-way fare is $25-40 CAD, which is a large part of how the trains pay for themselves. If British Columbians have to pay that much for a train trip to Chilliwack, they're taking the car.

That's called "trust". I'm sure Canadian banks would love that. Parked money in banks do not equate to massive railway connectivity of a country, so I am not sure what you are alluding to. Also, what does short work week in the world have anything to do with good railway system? Are you saying that the Swiss are more efficient and productive, hence the government has more money to spend on building great railway?

Dollar-to-dollar per earnings in respective currencies, that's only $16-26 CAD for 125km. That's distance from Downtown Vancouver to Whistler, or Downtown Vancouver to Hope. I will definitely take the comfortable SBB-style train.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by mcj

Both railways still have substantial portions of single tracked railways for their mainlines.

The railways will upgrade when the benefits of the upgrade outweigh the costs. Like taxpayers, they are reluctant to spend money unless there's a pretty good reason for it.

The Fraser Canyon is a bottleneck because of the extremely high cost of double-tracking in such rugged geography. The railways have alleviated the problem with a bilateral running agreement that lets them use each others track, so that each track runs in a single direction that eliminates meets. So that means there is essentially no benefit to double-tracking the lines east of Mission / Abbotsford because those portions are unidirectional anyway.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Vin

That's called "trust". I'm sure Canadian banks would love that. Parked money in banks do not equate to massive railway connectivity of a country, so I am not sure what you are alluding to. Also, what does short work week in the world have anything to do with good railway system? Are you saying that the Swiss are more efficient and productive, hence the government has more money to spend on building great railway?

Dollar-to-dollar per earnings in respective currencies, that's only $16-26 CAD for 125km. That's distance from Downtown Vancouver to Whistler, or Downtown Vancouver to Hope. I will definitely take the comfortable SBB-style train.

It's called "opacity." Rich people park their money in Switzerland because their bankers don't care where the money is coming or going, so long as it goes through them.
You were trying to attribute Swiss GDP to their "work ethic," so I corrected you. Money 101: more slush fund revenue means higher GDP means more taxes means more revenue for railway construction and maintenance... and across a country the size of the Lower Mainland at that. Ask Chilliwack to pack up and move to Langley or Abbotsford (and Ontario and Quebec to stop hogging all the federal funding), or watch BC's much smaller transit budget go to more important projects.

Rail isn't funded in "relative earnings." It'll be a flat $25-40 CAD one-way - triple the WCE's fare - for a trip that's just as long as the FVX, if not longer. Have fun having the whole train to yourself.

[jollyburger]

Seems like the old rail bridge near Riverrock is on fire

https://x.com/leilaharris/status/180...341077/photo/1

[logicbomb]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Seems like the old rail bridge near Riverrock is on fire

https://x.com/leilaharris/status/180...341077/photo/1

Northern side was destroyed by an arsonist. Barge strike pretty much killed any hopes of seeing traffic on this bridge.This one was probably started by another arsonist.

CP will still probably not elect to clean up this mess.

[MIPS]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

Northern side was destroyed by an arsonist. Barge strike pretty much killed any hopes of seeing traffic on this bridge.This one was probably started by another arsonist.

CP will still probably not elect to clean up this mess.

It's a conspiracy that the city by proxy of Shaughnessy proper used their weight to strong arm CP out of the line. Remember the first offer the city made that CP slapped down? Then there was the mysterious fire. A message was given.

There was many millions on the line in the form of property value if the wealthiest neighborhood in the city suddenly had a viable (but not active) commercial rail link next to it again. I'm in the same camp that the fires are acts of sabotage to protect the neighborhoods West of Granville and not just Sketchy the Crackhead playing with matches.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by MIPS

It's a conspiracy that the city by proxy of Shaughnessy proper used their weight to strong arm CP out of the line. Remember the first offer the city made that CP slapped down? Then there was the mysterious fire. A message was given.

There was many millions on the line in the form of property value if the wealthiest neighborhood in the city suddenly had a viable (but not active) commercial rail link next to it again. I'm in the same camp that the fires are acts of sabotage to protect the neighborhoods West of Granville and not just Sketchy the Crackhead playing with matches.

It's not entirely clear what you're referring to, but if it's the purchase of the Arbutus Line, CP had no intention of running any sort of commercial service on the line once they had no freight customers. They had already submitted development applications for housing on some of the land the tracks occupied in the late 1990s.

The City response in 2000 was to rezone the land for transportation, both active as light rail and as a greenway. CP fought, and lost several cases to try to have the rezoning annulled. In 2014 CP, in an effort to negotiate a higher price from the City, (they wanted $100m) started clearing the community gardens that had been developed (with no authorization) over the years, and put fences up again. It was purely a negotiating tactic, as there were no freight customers left using the line by then. The City tried to stop the use, but the Supreme Court in 2015 said CP could reactivate the line to store railcars.

It wasn't too long before the deal to sell to the City was announced in March 2016. CP got $55m, which was a lot less than the land would have been worth for the housing they had proposed a decade earlier, and the City got a possible future light rail route, and a greenway.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Changing City

CP got $55m, which was a lot less than the land would have been worth for the housing they had proposed a decade earlier, and the City got a possible future light rail route, and a greenway.

I believe that CP got not only the $55m, but also a cut of the future proceeds of any land sold for the purposes of housing development. Which seemed to me like a decent compromise solution.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

I believe that CP got not only the $55m, but also a cut of the future proceeds of any land sold for the purposes of housing development. Which seemed to me like a decent compromise solution.

this is correct. it was a good compromise. CP was worried about CoV stopping CP from developing it, getting it cheap, then changing their mind and making way more $$$ on it.

it was a good compromise.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

Northern side was destroyed by an arsonist. Barge strike pretty much killed any hopes of seeing traffic on this bridge.This one was probably started by another arsonist.

CP will still probably not elect to clean up this mess.

News reports this morning are saying the fire started in a warehouse, and spread to the trestle.

[logicbomb]

Originally Posted by Changing City

News reports this morning are saying the fire started in a warehouse, and spread to the trestle.

Found out this morning it was the former Shannon Buoys boat launch spot. The new owners (2012) have been trying to sell the plot for 3.5mil + but my guess is the zoning has been unappetizing for developers.

Originally Posted by Changing City

It's not entirely clear what you're referring to, but if it's the purchase of the Arbutus Line, CP had no intention of running any sort of commercial service on the line once they had no freight customers[/B]. They had already submitted development applications for housing on some of the land the tracks occupied in the late 1990s.

The City response in 2000 was to rezone the land for transportation, both active as light rail and as a greenway. CP fought, and lost several cases to try to have the rezoning annulled. In 2014 CP, in an effort to negotiate a higher price from the City, (they wanted $100m) started clearing the community gardens that had been developed (with no authorization) over the years, and put fences up again. It was purely a negotiating tactic, as there were no freight customers left using the line by then. The City tried to stop the use, but the Supreme Court in 2015 said CP could reactivate the line to store railcars.

It wasn't too long before the deal to sell to the City was announced in March 2016. CP got $55m, which was a lot less than the land would have been worth for the housing they had proposed a decade earlier, and the City got a possible future light rail route, and a greenway.

They were legitimately planning to store unused freight cars along the Arbutus Corridor, south of Broadway. This was a very real threat and one that finally forced the City's hand.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

They were legitimately planning to store unused freight cars along the Arbutus Corridor, south of Broadway. This was a very real threat and one that finally forced the City's hand.

That's not how their actions were viewed at the time. They also suggested they might use the corridor for welding rails, and that they thought it was worth $400m+. The City's valuation was based on the price CP agreed to sell the Richmond spur in 2006.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Seems like the old rail bridge near Riverrock is on fire

https://x.com/leilaharris/status/180...341077/photo/1

Even has its own special air quality statement from Environment Canada:

1:50 AM PDT Friday 21 June 2024

(June 20, 2024) Metro Vancouver Regional District has issued an Air Quality Bulletin due to thick smoke being released from a train trestle fire on the Fraser River near the Oak Street bridge, bordering Vancouver and Richmond. The fire is expected to be burning through Thursday night and into Friday.

Metro Vancouver issues Air Quality Bulletins to inform people about short-term air quality issues at a local level that are not widespread enough to trigger a broader Air Quality Advisory.

Metro Vancouver staff are at the site and liaising with Richmond Fire-Rescue. Metro Vancouver staff are monitoring air quality data being received from air quality monitoring stations located throughout the region.

Air Quality Bulletin in effect for:

Metro Vancouver – Northwest
Metro Vancouver – Southwest
Metro Vancouver – Northeast
Metro Vancouver – Southeast

https://weather.gc.ca/forecast/hourl..._metric_e.html

[CanSpice]

I did a cursory search here, but I think this is the first I've heard of "Mountain Valley Express"...?

Lee Haber, a representative of Mountain Valley Express, said the B.C.-based non-profit society is committed to bringing a world-class regional rail system to the south coast of British Columbia. He said one of the decisive factors when people choose between driving and riding transit is travel time.

“Although our region and province have made significant strides in improving transit in recent decades, one key piece of the transit puzzle is still missing – fast, frequent regional rail service,” he said. “Regions of a similar scale and … are already served with extensive regional rail networks.”

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

I did a cursory search here, but I think this is the first I've heard of "Mountain Valley Express"...?

The group's expensive and increasingly unlikely to be developed idea was first mentioned in 2020, (and more recently on the Burrard Inlet thread). It doesn't seem to have gained any traction.

[Migrant_Coconut]

They're very enthusiastic amateurs. If their effort manages to get the province interested in commuter rail out of the metro, by all means, but that's not likely... and if it was, it would probably mean taking resources from TransLink or BC Transit's other, more important projects.

[Vin]

Glad there are forward-thinking groups around. The government should be working more with these groups to bring their visions into fruition.

They do not agree with intercity travels using the skytrain, and instead the most efficient form of travel would be using frequent commuter railway. Yes!

Haber said SkyTrain is great for urban trips, but it fails when it comes to travelling longer distances and doing inter-regional trips. He said regional rail trains that travel up to 160 kilometres per hour are “much more suitable” for trips such as those from Vancouver to Langley, Abbotsford, or Mission.