Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

sans déc!

That's a bit old-fashioned now. France's French slang has a way of evolving extremely rapidly. Slang words or ways of saying things that were very popular 20 or 30 years ago now make you sound old if you still use them. Young people in Paris these days speak a language that simply didn't exist 20 years ago. This is much less true in English, where I find slang tends to remain more over time.

These days in Paris young people use and abuse "frère" (equivalent of "bro") and "en mode" all the time. At my gym it drives me nuts. It's like they don't know any other words. There is also the abuse of "vas y", and of "wesh". But "frère" in particular drives me literally nuts (I hear it almost every 5 minutes when I go to the gym, and this is a rich neighborhood with sons of upper bourgeoisie Parisians!).

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

I still think Quebecois isn't too bad on the Anglicisme front.. you hear a lot more in France.

No, not in everyday's life. You'll see lots of English words in advertisement, in the media, in silly business talk, etc, but the way people speak in the street, they don't use all these English words. The Québécois use far more English words on a casual base, and it always grates on European ears. Also, the Québécois have this way of pronouncing English words like the Anglophones, complete with perfect English r, which seems very unnatural to European ears. In Europe you would sound very pedantic if you pronounced English words the way the Québécois do it (i.e. the way North American English speakers do it).

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

Or even different genders, I recall hearing in Paris un job, but in Montreal it's always une job.

"Job" is on its way out in France (except in the expression "un job d'été", i.e. summer job for students). It's what I said about slang. It changes very quickly in France. These days it's more likely to be "du taf" or "un boulot" than "un job". There's even the verb "taffer", and the neologism "vélotaffeur" (those going to work with a bicycle, i.e. the rudest species of Parisians).

PS: Footing is also on its way out. It was my father's generation sort of word. These days in commercial speak it's been replaced by "le running" (as in "où est le rayon running ?" in a sports apparel store, but outside of stupid commercial speak I don't think people use "running" on a daily base, personally I say "je vais courir", I think a lot of people say "faire de la course", and many people say "jogging" too... you rarely hear "footing" anymore)

[harls]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

No, not in everyday's life. You'll see lots of English words in advertisement, in the media, in silly business talk, etc, but the way people speak in the street, they don't use all these English words. The Québécois use far more English words on a casual base, and it always grates on European ears. Also, the Québécois have this way of pronouncing English words like the Anglophones, complete with perfect English r, which seems very unnatural to European ears. In Europe you would sound very pedantic if you pronounced English words the way the Québécois do it (i.e. the way North American English speakers do it).

How do you read all these posts on this thread and it what accent? Come on, 'don be zhy'..

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

. Also, the Québécois have this way of pronouncing English words like the Anglophones, complete with perfect English r, which seems very unnatural to European ears. In Europe you would sound very pedantic if you pronounced English words the way the Québécois do it (i.e. the way North American English speakers do it).

This is kind fo funny Americans have the same criticism of Canadians for prouncing French words properly. "It's CrossanT not Croissan(t)"

[thebasketballgeek]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

That's a bit old-fashioned now. France's French slang has a way of evolving extremely rapidly. Slang words or ways of saying things that were very popular 20 or 30 years ago now make you sound old if you still use them. Young people in Paris these days speak a language that simply didn't exist 20 years ago. This is much less true in English, where I find slang tends to remain more over time.
.

Honestly not sure I agree with this at all. I don’t think there’s a language that develops slang as fast as English. This is prob due to the huge reach it has as a lot of slang straight up comes from other languages.I always say to my students that slang and standard English are essentially 2 different languages.

Since I’m still at the age where it’s acceptable to use as much slang as I want I’ll give an example of a conversation I had with a friend. This is the evolution of mostly Toronto slang in the last 10 or so years.

M: Yo wagwan fam tryna link styll? It’s been a min

Bro: Wallah mans was just boutta hit u up.

M: Nize dat crodie! Can u scoop?

Bro: I gotchu bro, my bad tho u dunno I been staying a wasteyute

M: Dfkmmm bruh

Bro: I’ll reach in 10

M: Aii bet check u soon.

[harls]

Originally Posted by thebasketballgeek

Honestly not sure I agree with this at all. I don’t think there’s a language that develops slang as fast as English. This is prob due to the huge reach it has as a lot of slang straight up comes from other languages.I always say to my students that slang and standard English are essentially 2 different languages.

Since I’m still at the age where it’s acceptable to use as much slang as I want I’ll give an example of a conversation I had with a friend. This is the evolution of mostly Toronto slang in the last 10 or so years.

M: Yo wagwan fam tryna link styll? It’s been a min

Bro: Wallah mans was just boutta hit u up.

M: Nize dat crodie! Can u scoop?

Bro: I gotchu bro, my bad tho u dunno I been staying a wasteyute

M: Dfkmmm bruh

Bro: I’ll reach in 10

M: Aii bet check u soon.

Ben la, man. Imagine being English from western canada, raising a kid in Québec bilingually and having to hear this as vernacular.


• Video Link

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by thebasketballgeek

Honestly not sure I agree with this at all. I don’t think there’s a language that develops slang as fast as English. This is prob due to the huge reach it has as a lot of slang straight up comes from other languages.I always say to my students that slang and standard English are essentially 2 different languages.

Since I’m still at the age where it’s acceptable to use as much slang as I want I’ll give an example of a conversation I had with a friend. This is the evolution of mostly Toronto slang in the last 10 or so years.

M: Yo wagwan fam tryna link styll? It’s been a min

Bro: Wallah mans was just boutta hit u up.

M: Nize dat crodie! Can u scoop?

Bro: I gotchu bro, my bad tho u dunno I been staying a wasteyute

M: Dfkmmm bruh

Bro: I’ll reach in 10

M: Aii bet check u soon.

Crossing the threshold from slang to dialect?

[thebasketballgeek]

Originally Posted by harls

Ben la, man. Imagine being English from western canada, raising a kid in Québec bilingually and having to hear this as vernacular.


• Video Link

T’as raison man. I check 2 out of 3 boxes mais I’m still too young to be thinking about raising a kid here. Instead I have to learn the Québecois slang for my age group (which thankfully just includes a bunch of English slang that I already know). I also notice that a lot of older expressions have staying power or that the parents will pick up on the new terms pretty fast. There’s also the slang coming from France that has invaded Quebec such as wesh and vas-y (no verlan yet tho thank god).

[thebasketballgeek]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Crossing the threshold from slang to dialect?

I don’t think so. I would say that’s an extreme example, but I’d wager to bet a lot of Canadians who are 25 and younger will completely understand what I typed there. Then there’s the brainrot that Harls posted which even flabbergasts me (unfortunately I still understand it), but I expect that English slang will continue to evolve at a rate that no other language can match.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

This is kind fo funny Americans have the same criticism of Canadians for prouncing French words properly. "It's CrossanT not Croissan(t)"

I dunno. I would wager the vast majority of English Canadians say "cruhssanT". Like over 90%.

My siblings who are native francophones who live in Ontario say "cruhssanT" when speaking English.

They also say "poo-teen" in English as opposed to "poo-tzin".

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I dunno. I would wager the vast majority of English Canadians say "cruhssanT". Like over 90%.

My siblings who are native francophones who live in Ontario say "cruhssanT" when speaking English.

They also say "poo-teen" in English as opposed to "poo-tzin".

They also

Bunch of rosbifs.

[harls]

I just say 'Kwa son' at the IGA and they understand me.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by harls

I just say 'Kwa son' at the IGA and they understand me.

After all these years I would assume you'd be able to say "croissant" the proper French way, no?

[harls]

Originally Posted by Acajack

After all these years I would assume you'd be able to say "croissant" the proper French way, no?

Yeah I can.

When I moved here in 2001, everyone thought I was Russian or Australian.

Now I'm an agent provocateur.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by thebasketballgeek

Honestly not sure I agree with this at all. I don’t think there’s a language that develops slang as fast as English. This is prob due to the huge reach it has as a lot of slang straight up comes from other languages.I always say to my students that slang and standard English are essentially 2 different languages.

I've lived in both language areas, so I can confidently speak about it, from first hand experience. French (especially in France, less so in Québec) has FAR MORE difference between the formal language and the casual slangish language. English has far less difference. And slang evolves much more in French. I mean people still routinely use US English slang (or British English slang) from the 1990s or earlier, whereas French slang from more than 15 years ago already marks you as someone for the generation before.

This is a little bit like US slang from before WW2 like "honest" or "nifty" or "swell". If you still used it, you'd sound quaint and old-fashioned. The other day they broadcasted a US movie from the 1930s on French television, set in NYC, and it struck me how US slang had evolved since then, what sounded "cool" to them just sounds so old-fashioned and quaint now. Well in French you wouldn't have to go all the way back to the 1930s. Already the slang of the late 1990s or early 2000s would be a bit old-fashioned now and mark you as someone from the 1970s generation.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Crossing the threshold from slang to dialect?

Sounds Jamaican to me...

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by thebasketballgeek

There’s also the slang coming from France that has invaded Quebec such as wesh and vas-y (no verlan yet tho thank god).

In fact you're slightly behind the curve... There WAS a verlan term for vas y, which was zy-va, but it has faded out of use since 5-10 years ago, and now it's vas y that is universal. Go figure!

In fact this is a good illustration of what I was saying. If you used "zy-va" now, you'd sound a bit old... like 30 or 40 something trying to sound "young" but being 10 years late.

[Nashe]

The "evolution" of English is something I both love and hate at the same time.

Linguistic carcinisation at it's finest. Maybe in 1000 years we'll all be speaking some sort of Earth-creole.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

I've lived in both language areas, so I can confidently speak about it, from first hand experience. French (especially in France, less so in Québec) has FAR MORE difference between the formal language and the casual slangish language. English has far less difference. .

I've lived all my life sitting on the fence between the two languages, and one thing I tell people trying to learn "the other" is also that there is a far greater difference between spoken and written French than between spoken and written English.

You can write English essentially the same way you speak it and not come across as a total rube.

But in French if you do that people will think you dropped out of school way too young.

I've experimented with this in a workplace setting with emails as well. Everyone intuitively switches to more formal language in French when they start writing.