Canadian Transit Thread II

[DirectionNorth]

Originally Posted by theman23

That map was for trains, not trams.

The schedule posted earlier was cherry picked. Train service is 10-20minutes or so during daytime hours on weekdays and evenings on weekends and can be as short as 6 minutes during peak times for service to inner city stations.

It was not cherry picked - this is the typical Sunday schedule, and I looked through them to find the most frequent line. And you'll notice that the subway runs at single digit headways at all times (20 minute headways isn't that bad in the midday, LOL), including the Sheppard Line. When GO RER is complete, it will have higher frequencies than Melbourne's Metro Trains. Or Sydney Trains, which (based on a first glance) runs every 15 minutes on weekends.

The point is that Melbourne doesn't run off-peak service at a high frequency, not that it doesn't run peak service, which even American cities do.

[Truenorth00]

GO Lakeshore is already every 15 mins on weekends:

https://www.metrolinx.com/en/news/ma...oming-april-28

Post-RER, parts of the GO network, where lines overlap could see trains every 5 mins, with a lot of the network getting 15 min service. I am curious to see how cities like Melbourne compare to the GTA in a decade (post-RER).

[Nouvellecosse]

Interesting to hear about some of Melbourne's bus weaknesses after the topic came up recently here. Some of the areas discussed in this news clip are on the edge of the metro area akin to the outer 905 so not really comparable to the TTC service area. But it none-the-less does suggest lots of room for improvement including areas with very poor frequency and some with no service at all.

• Video Link

[Doady]

Updated scatterplot for US and Canadian. Kinda depressing to see places like San Fracisco and Ottawa fall into single digit transit mode share, but oh well. Hopefully numbers return to normal by 2026.

[Doady]

Some maybe interesting info about ridership recovery in Mississauga:











Even though weekday ridership up 5% in Q4 2023 compared to Q4 2019, morning and afternoon peak ridership (7AM and 4PM) still lower in 2023 compared to 2019.

Evening rush hour now starts at 1:30PM instead of 3PM.

Most of the weekday ridership increase is at 1PM and at 7PM to 5AM.

Even though weekday ridership increased only 5%, Saturday ridership increased 33%, Sunday 43% compared to 2019.

123% ridership increase at 9PM to 7AM on Sundays.

[cranes]

ION 5th birthday
https://www.grt.ca/en/about-grt/ion-5th-birthday.aspx

ION light rail launched June 21, 2019. In the five years since, it has transformed our region. ION trains have carried more than 19 million passengers, and more than $5 billion has been invested in development along the ION line. We're celebrating this milestone with free service, a birthday party, and the Great ION Puzzle Quest!

Free service
All transit service will be free on Saturday, June 22 and Sunday, June 23. That includes ION light rail, conventional buses and MobilityPLUS services.

ION 5th birthday party
Join us at Fairway Station on Saturday, June 22 from 11 a.m. - 3 p.m. for the ION 5th birthday party! Plus additional community events at Waterloo Public Square, Queen/Frederick Station (Speaker's Corner) and Ainslie Terminal.
Fairway Station: Live mural painting, live music, fire arts animation, aerial silks performances, face painting and balloon creations, outdoor games, giveaway and food trucks.
Waterloo Public Square: Roaming stilt walking performances, face painting, balloon creations, outdoor games, giveaways and food trucks.
Queen/Frederick Station (Speaker's Corner): Magicians, face painting, outdoor game, live music by the KW Symphony performers, sponsored by the Kitchener BIA.
Ainslie Terminal: Live music, face painting, balloon creations, outdoor games, giveaways and food trucks.

Great ION Puzzle Quest
https://www.grt.ca/en/about-grt/grea...zle-quest.aspx

Celebrate five years of ION light rail with the Great ION Puzzle Quest! You'll travel along the ION line finding clues and solving puzzles along the way, with the goal of revealing the secret code word. It's part scavenger hunt, part escape room, all centred on ION light rail. Registration is FREE!

Tackle the puzzle quest solo, with a partner or in a team. Everyone who completes the puzzle quest within the time limit receives an ION-themed prize pack. You'll also be entered in a draw for one of 10 custom wooden ION trains!

Plus enjoy the ION celebrations and entertainment along the way.

Date: Saturday, June 22
Time: Approximately 1.5-2 hours to complete (bring water and snacks!)
Starting location: Waterloo Public Square
Kids under 16 should complete the Puzzle Quest with adult help. You'll need a smart phone for some of the puzzles.

Registration - Register for your preferred start time below. If you're completing the Puzzle Quest with a team, reserve a ticket for each member of your team...

[hipster duck]

So a bit Toronto-centric, but the TTC will replace the 510 Spadina streetcar with buses starting June 23 while it does repairs.

The 510 streetcar was slow, but it was reliable. You could expect it to arrive every couple of minutes and it had the ridership to show for it. I'd actually argue that, unless they had special constables positioned at key intersections to keep the King (504) streetcar moving, that the Spadina streetcar was the only reliable streetcar route in the entire city. Now that it's out of service, the TTC streetcar system is a dog's breakfast of short turned routes, bus-substitutions, detours and unacceptable wait times. It's very difficult for anybody to keep track of what's in service and what's not. Reece Martin was right in this video when he said that the streetcar system is the worst thing the TTC does.

[SteelTown]

Update on the huge Hamilton Transit Bus Maintenance & Storage Facility







Source: Branden Simon @ https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/thread...arcadis.35591/

HSR turns 150 years old this year, so to celebrate, most of the bendy buses have retro-wrapped buses, and on special days, the adult bus fare will be $1.50.



Source: HSR @ https://twitter.com/hsr

[Nite]

Here is where federal transit funding or lack of will likely go under the next government

Poilievre says he supports 3rd link for cars
On Thursday, federal Conservative Leader Pierre Poilievre wrote on X, formerly known as Twitter, that as prime minister he wouldn't invest a cent in the tramway project, saying Prime Minister Justin Trudeau's government and the Bloc Québécois are "obsessed with a war on cars and are ignoring people in the suburbs and the regions."
He says he will continue to respect Quebec motorists by supporting a third link for cars.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montr...0suburbs%20and

[tayser]

Originally Posted by DirectionNorth

The purpose of transit isn't to look impressive on a map, or Dallas and Los Angeles would be leaders in transit.

Transit is fundamentally about moving people efficiently. Higher ridership implies a more attractive service in comparison to the competition. And the TTC seems to be a far more attractive service than Melbourne's hodgepodge of low-frequency bus operators and tram vs. train competition, remembering that PTV (theoretically) coordinates Melbourne's transit networks.

Besides, you mention that there should be more operators. Are you suggesting the government compete against itself?



Melbourne's trams are surface trams, much like our streetcars.

----------------------------------------------------
I think the people who call for more operators are missing what makes the TTC successful and keeps subsidy low. The subway was (pre-COVID), substantially profitable, which cross-subsidised the feeder buses which made it profitable. Combining crosstown travel and feeder buses allowed a level of high frequency on the surface routes that matches most European cities, with ridership results.

For an example of why Melbourne's transit ridership remains low, here's a comparison of the highest frequency Metro Trains lines to the YUS. And note that I cherry picked the best line in Melbourne.

Let alone the bus frequencies, where even Melbourne's high ridership lines cannot compare to the 10 minute network, and might lose against Brampton Transit. Splitting frequency leads to worse results for everyone.

You picked a line that is most definitely not the best. Pakenham/Cranbourne (via Dandenong) or Lilydale/Belgrave (via Ringwood) are the best for frequency at the moment.

And overall, yes, Melbourne's train system is low frequency.. at least until next year when MM1 opens and capacity is created through the re-organisation of lines that will create.

Throw in about $15billion (out of $20bil budgeted) of level crossing removals - in 12 years 82 have been removed, we have a list of 115 that are in that budget and there's another 50 beyond that - on top of the Metro tunnel investment and 2+ years of massive driver training programmes we could be moving to something like 10 minute all day every frequencies on all the radial lines (14 in total including branches, 10 if you exclude the branches).

Nothing is (annoyingly) confirmed, but watch this space, lots of things start aligning in 2025.

[DirectionNorth]

Originally Posted by tayser

You picked a line that is most definitely not the best. Pakenham/Cranbourne (via Dandenong) or Lilydale/Belgrave (via Ringwood) are the best for frequency at the moment.

And overall, yes, Melbourne's train system is low frequency.. at least until next year when MM1 opens and capacity is created through the re-organisation of lines that will create.

Throw in about $15billion (out of $20bil budgeted) of level crossing removals - in 12 years 82 have been removed, we have a list of 115 that are in that budget and there's another 50 beyond that - on top of the Metro tunnel investment and 2+ years of massive driver training programmes we could be moving to something like 10 minute all day every frequencies on all the radial lines (14 in total including branches, 10 if you exclude the branches).

Nothing is (annoyingly) confirmed, but watch this space, lots of things start aligning in 2025.

The lines you mentioned currently run at about 6 TPH on weekends on the combined section, which is worse than the (admittedly much degraded) Toronto Subway or Montréal Métro. 12 TPH combined would be above what we run on the off-peak though.

We have our own suburban rail program in the form of GO Expansion, which will give us a properly layered metro and regional rail network when it's complete. Any decade now ...

Melbourne AFAIK has the Metro Tunnel and the Suburban Rail Link, but $100 billion for the latter's construction is totally crazy, that's probably as much as all the transit under construction in Canada combined.

Here's to future transit improvements everywhere.

[casper]

Originally Posted by Nite

Here is where federal transit funding or lack of will likely go under the next government

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montr...0suburbs%20and

Yes. The conservatives, who are willing to accept that climate change is real, but are not willing to do anything about it.

Sad, disappointing but are we surprised? No.

[ssiguy]

I can't say I blame PP. The cost of the QC tramway was astronomical.............$7 billion for just 20 km with only 2 underground stations? That's obscene. Calgary's entire Green Line LRT is expected to now come in at $6 billion but with 46km and 4 underground stations. The price per km of the QC tramway was ridiculously high. I agree with transit infrastructure but, like all infrastructure projects, the price must be justifiable and QC's isn't.

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by DirectionNorth

Melbourne AFAIK has the Metro Tunnel and the Suburban Rail Link, but $100 billion for the latter's construction is totally crazy, that's probably as much as all the transit under construction in Canada combined.

Here's to future transit improvements everywhere.

We're very lucky that Toronto doesn't need to spend $100B+ on a suburban loop. Otherwise I could see such a boondoggle killing off transit expansion permanently in the city given its outrageous price tag.

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

Update on the huge Hamilton Transit Bus Maintenance & Storage Facility

This really confused me because Metro Vancouver's TransLink has a Hamilton Transit Centre and I could have sworn it wasn't being expanded...

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

We're very lucky that Toronto doesn't need to spend $100B+ on a suburban loop. Otherwise I could see such a boondoggle killing off transit expansion permanently in the city given its outrageous price tag.

Lucky for Melbourne in that it doesn't "need" to spend it either. It just happens to be that some politicians there think it would improve regional transportation and seem open to making the investment. Personally I think that an orbital route would be just as useful in Toronto. But hopefully if such a thing is proposed it would be mainly above ground to keep costs more manageable.

[tayser]

Originally Posted by DirectionNorth

The lines you mentioned currently run at about 6 TPH on weekends on the combined section, which is worse than the (admittedly much degraded) Toronto Subway or Montréal Métro. 12 TPH combined would be above what we run on the off-peak though.

We have our own suburban rail program in the form of GO Expansion, which will give us a properly layered metro and regional rail network when it's complete. Any decade now ...

Melbourne AFAIK has the Metro Tunnel and the Suburban Rail Link, but $100 billion for the latter's construction is totally crazy, that's probably as much as all the transit under construction in Canada combined.

Here's to future transit improvements everywhere.

No idea where you got the $100 billion figure from. The entire (automated) line from Cheltenham to Airport will likely come in under that figure by a long margin.

SRL East will be $32billion (the one's that's under construction).

The real cost data is slowly coming to light as each contract gets inked. The first contract for tunnelling is $3.6 billion (16km), the preferred contractor for the second contract (10km, price to be announced when the deal is inked in a few months) was announced today.

Station build, rolling stock procurement and operations contracts are all still to come.

[Coldrsx]

Time-Sensitive: Alberta Must Commit to Rail Proposals Now

There’s been lots of activity on the Alberta Passenger Rail File since we last communicated with you.

The Calgary Airport Rail Connection Study is well underway by the City of Calgary and scheduled to report recommendations by the Fall of 2024. The Government of Alberta announced the launch of a Passenger Rail Master Plan to prioritize the delivery of Passenger Rail Service across the Province. Devin Dreeshen, the Minister of Transportation and Economic Corridors, sent a letter to Mayor Gondek indicating two key conditions for the Province’s $1.53 billion funding of the Green Line. The first condition is no additional funding will be available from the Government of Alberta and second, the current provincial funding is contingent on the Green Line being fully integrated with the Province's recently announced Master Rail Plan.

On June 29th the Calgary Herald published an op-ed written by Liricon Capital’s Managing Partner, Jan Waterous (Calgary Airport – Banff Rail (CABR) lead proponent) which addresses the budgetary challenges of the Green Line, the Province’s desire for a Central Station in the Rivers District as part of its Master Rail Plan and CABR’s solution for a timely and cost-effective passenger rail service connecting Calgary’s Airport to Downtown.

The op-ed highlights the following critical points and solutions:

Private-Sector Delivery Model – Lower Cost, Lower Risk
A private-sector delivery model will reduce costs to taxpayers and transfer the development and operational risk to a public-private-partnership. CABR’s public-private-partnership will finance its $2.6 billion capital cost, 50 percent by Canada Infrastructure Bank (CIB) and 50 percent by the private sector, and not only assume development and construction risk but ongoing revenue and operational risk. Similarly, the central station could also be developed with risk capital from CIB, in stark contrast to the Government of Alberta stepping in to finance a station without any certainty of the future rail service to be provided. CABR, in the near term, can anchor the potential central station, providing critical integration with the adjacent private-sector owners and a clear line of sight to a real train service for the newly expanded BMO Centre and future Event Centre projects.

Timely Delivery of Passenger Rail
A private-sector delivery model will reduce development time — in CABR’s case, years ahead of any government-led project, since CABR already has eight years of studies and a detailed memorandum of understanding with CPKC Rail, in whose corridor the system would be built. With a targeted construction date of 2027 and completion in 2029, CABR can be built and operational before the Green Line’s expected in-service date beyond 2030. Without this certainty, there’s a real risk that the private-sector property owners will proceed with current development plans in the Rivers District, which will preclude a Central Rail Station. A near-term rail project connecting the airport to downtown and Banff with a stop in the Rivers District will also provide the expanded tourism market hotel developers need to advance projects adjacent to the newly expanded BMO Centre and the future Event Centre.

Cost Savings CABR Connecting to the Blue Line
A private-sector delivery model for the airport-to-downtown connection will increase available funding for the city to complete the Green Line. CABR has proposed to extend its service four kilometres east of the airport to replace the city’s planned Airport Transit Line — which would connect the Blue Line to the airport — saving the city $750 million, which could be reallocated to the Green Line.

Time Sensitivity for a Private Sector Delivery Model
Should this private sector delivery model be of interest to the province, the urgency to advance the Green Line, secure the central station site and lock up CIB funding will require that the private-sector rail proposals be evaluated in parallel with the Master Rail Plan. CIB will not survive if the Conservatives win the federal election next year. To secure that funding, the province must advance a project development agreement by fall 2024 or CABR will be terminated. This still preserves the province’s flexibility on delivery models to reach a final investment decision at a later date.

Concluding Remarks
We are at a critical juncture with consultants about to be engaged to deliver the Master Rail Plan in the Summer of 2025, the Calgary Airport Rail Connection Study set to report its findings this fall and the CIB funding window set to expire in June 2025. CABR proponents are urging the Government of Alberta to initiate a thorough professional review of the Passenger Rail Unsolicited Proposals of which CABR is one. We are urging the Government of Alberta when doing its Rail Master Plan to look closely at commercial viability, cost containment and the risk mitigation opportunities associated with CABR’s private sector delivery model. In doing so a private sector delivery solution can be equally considered concurrent with the development of the Rail Master Plan.

Bruce Graham
Executive Director
--

via email

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

Cost Savings CABR Connecting to the Blue Line
A private-sector delivery model for the airport-to-downtown connection will increase available funding for the city to complete the Green Line. CABR has proposed to extend its service four kilometres east of the airport to replace the city’s planned Airport Transit Line — which would connect the Blue Line to the airport — saving the city $750 million, which could be reallocated to the Green Line.

I'm not sure this is such a great idea. Building greenfield heavy rail is more expensive than light rail, and it serves a different purpose and is kind of sub-optimal at what the blue line extension is supposed to do.

So, instead of the blue line being extended to the airport, people in NE Calgary would transfer to a Banff-bound heavy rail train that comes less frequently, ride to the airport at a subsidized fare and get off to go to their airport jobs?

The rail link should be to serve airport passengers heading to downtown and Banff. Local transit to the airport would better be served either by extending the blue line or simply by having an express bus leave Saddletowne more frequently.

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

Lucky for Melbourne in that it doesn't "need" to spend it either. It just happens to be that some politicians there think it would improve regional transportation and seem open to making the investment. Personally I think that an orbital route would be just as useful in Toronto. But hopefully if such a thing is proposed it would be mainly above ground to keep costs more manageable.

Yes the Midtown CP line and expansion of the Milton GO I believe would make the best orbital route, and much more cost effective than anything Melbourne is building.