Carlingwood Shopping Centre

[Jay31]

Originally Posted by rdaner

Interesting. It looks like this site is less than a km from two future lrt stations.

Close, but it's a stretch to say that it's well connected by them in the way that Rideau, St. Laurent or Bayshore are (or will be). If they ever improve transit along Carling, with all of the development in progress and planned along that stretch, Carlingwood will be the prime shopping destination for a large stretch of the city. The need for parking won't go away though with Canadian Tire as the anchor tenant though. There'll have to be a better located (or more accessible) parking garage to consolidate the surface parking (which does fill up on weekends). The current parking garages are behind the mall and offer poor access to CT (at least if you're wheeling a shopping cart).

It'll be interesting to see what happens to the mall - as a nearby resident, my only hope is that they develop it while keeping access to the current mall and retail that serve the community (ie not like Lincoln Fields where they bull dozed the mall for only Metro and future considerations). Even Westgate, they've at least kept the illusion of a mall (if for nothing else than as a place to hang out while waiting for Service Ontario).

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Jay31

Close, but it's a stretch to say that it's well connected by them in the way that Rideau, St. Laurent or Bayshore are (or will be). If they ever improve transit along Carling, with all of the development in progress and planned along that stretch, Carlingwood will be the prime shopping destination for a large stretch of the city. The need for parking won't go away though with Canadian Tire as the anchor tenant though. There'll have to be a better located (or more accessible) parking garage to consolidate the surface parking (which does fill up on weekends). The current parking garages are behind the mall and offer poor access to CT (at least if you're wheeling a shopping cart).

It'll be interesting to see what happens to the mall - as a nearby resident, my only hope is that they develop it while keeping access to the current mall and retail that serve the community (ie not like Lincoln Fields where they bull dozed the mall for only Metro and future considerations). Even Westgate, they've at least kept the illusion of a mall (if for nothing else than as a place to hang out while waiting for Service Ontario).

A larger Loblaws and a reduction (half?) of the retail space in favour of residential would be a nice result. I think Service Ontario would be a good addition, once they need to leave Westgate.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by rdaner

Interesting. It looks like this site is less than a km from two future lrt stations.

If you compare that with driving and parking within 50 m of your destination, does this really make transit appealing for most people? Hardly. I am not walking 1 km to transit, unless I have absolutely no alternative. Making people walk further to transit (worse convenience), is not going to get more people on transit.

[OTSkyline]

For many though, a 1km walk to Line 1 means direct access to many important destinations including downtown. Someone could be at their office downtown within 20-30min.

Given our current transit options, personally I'd rather walk 1km to the LRT and hop on than to take a bus at my doorstep (that might show up every 15-30min) to then switch over to LRT midway through.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by OTSkyline

For many though, a 1km walk to Line 1 means direct access to many important destinations including downtown. Someone could be at their office downtown within 20-30min.

Given our current transit options, personally I'd rather walk 1km to the LRT and hop on than to take a bus at my doorstep (that might show up every 15-30min) to then switch over to LRT midway through.

This assumes good weather (no snow storm, properly cleared sidewalks, no -30 wind chill, no pouring rain or thunderstorms etc.), no personal safety concerns on your walk especially after dark, you are not carrying two heavy bags and you have no disabilities.

The problem here is that we are not designing transit for everybody which should include efficient transfers. Why would you rather walk 15 minutes especially in less than ideal circumstances rather than a bus to your door with a 5 minute wait to/from rapid transit?

If we expect people to walk 15 minutes (from Lincoln Fields to Carlingwood or whatever), aren't we being ageist and ableist ?

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

A larger Loblaws and a reduction (half?) of the retail space in favour of residential would be a nice result. I think Service Ontario would be a good addition, once they need to leave Westgate.

Under this circumstance, Carlingwood ceases to be retail destination for transit riders. A Canadian Tire and large Loblaws is designed for drivers mostly.

This seems to be a trend that suburban retail is becoming only big box stores that is very difficult to service with transit and are almost entirely car based. At least indoor malls were retail destinations. Our ongoing 'improved' planning is sadly anti-transit.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

If you compare that with driving and parking within 50 m of your destination, does this really make transit appealing for most people? Hardly. I am not walking 1 km to transit, unless I have absolutely no alternative. Making people walk further to transit (worse convenience), is not going to get more people on transit.

One km for me is a ten-minute walk, maybe less if it's good weather and I'm not heavily laden with cargo.

One km is also my closest walk to a regular "frequent" (such as it is) bus route that doesn't completely suck, and this is in the "inner transect" of the city, as it's now known.

A 1-km hoof kinda sucks for the bus, especially when the bus part of the trip also sucks, but for access to frequent, higher-order transit, it's not much, especially not in the city that uses FIVE km as a standard for being adjacent to transit for some reason.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

If we expect people to walk 15 minutes (from Lincoln Fields to Carlingwood or whatever), aren't we being ageist and ableist ?

I don't think anyone is expecting that; they are enabling it.

[Williamoforange]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Under this circumstance, Carlingwood ceases to be retail destination for transit riders. A Canadian Tire and large Loblaws is designed for drivers mostly.

This seems to be a trend that suburban retail is becoming only big box stores that is very difficult to service with transit and are almost entirely car based. At least indoor malls were retail destinations. Our ongoing 'improved' planning is sadly anti-transit.

Well it's currently not a retail destination for a high volume of people, hence why it's dying.....

So exactly how would putting 1000+ units of housing on a site within a 1km walk of mass transit make things worse for locals & TRANSIT users.....

Make it worse for drivers sure, but again it's already not the first choice for them so who cares....

[AuxTown]

Bayshore, Rideau and St Laurent will be the only survivors of this spell of dying malls IMO. Maybe Billings just due to it's use as a bus hub. Line 1 will just solidify these malls' dominance as well.

[J.OT13]

On the 15 minute walk to the Byron Strip Line 1 stations. My take is that if you live within a 15 minute walk, you'll use it regularly, at least to go to work. But if you're destination is within a 15 minute walk (like shopping), then you might not.

The key is to build the Carling bus lanes and have service, reliable/quick service, every 10 minutes at the very minimum.

[Davis137]

I think Billings, in comparison, will be around for a long time, regardless of being a transitway hub or not. There aren't any retail properties like it that service South Ottawa. People that live in OOS, Confederation Heights, and Alta Vista would rather use the amenities there, than travel to Saint-Laurent, Trainyards, South Keys or College Square. With the upcoming redevelopment in the area, which will create an influx of residential properties and the need for a local mall will only be strengthened.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Davis137

I think Billings, in comparison, will be around for a long time, regardless of being a transitway hub or not. There aren't any retail properties like it that service South Ottawa. People that live in OOS, Confederation Heights, and Alta Vista would rather use the amenities there, than travel to Saint-Laurent, Trainyards, South Keys or College Square. With the upcoming redevelopment in the area, which will create an influx of residential properties and the need for a local mall will only be strengthened.

Makes sense. Alta Vista is strangely devoid of commercial/retail areas. Quite possibly the most car centric of the mid-century suburbs.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Davis137

I think Billings, in comparison, will be around for a long time, regardless of being a transitway hub or not. There aren't any retail properties like it that service South Ottawa. People that live in OOS, Confederation Heights, and Alta Vista would rather use the amenities there, than travel to Saint-Laurent, Trainyards, South Keys or College Square. With the upcoming redevelopment in the area, which will create an influx of residential properties and the need for a local mall will only be strengthened.

I think it will, but not necessarily in the same form. At some point, I'd not be surprised to see it replaced, either holus-bolus or in phases.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

I think it will, but not necessarily in the same form. At some point, I'd not be surprised to see it replaced, either holus-bolus or in phases.

I can't see a holus-bolus redevelopment. If this were to happen, then the shopping centre is dead. Shopping patterns will change permanently.

Regardless, shopping centre redevelopment will not occur until after the empty lots at Bank and Riverside are built. Those projects will be easier to get going once Bank Street is rebuilt, which is now starting.