Calgary International Airport III

[Tobuz]

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory

https://aviationweek.com/air-transpo...port-authority

This article mentions that YYC is pursing additional Transborder destinations and specifically mentioned PHL, MSY and BWI as targets.

Of those 3, I’m guessing PHL is the most likeliest. I believe WS has already attempted MSY previously.

They all seem unlikely, no?

None seem like they’d have big O+D numbers, and none are really relevant hubs for any airlines — so they could only be “spoke” routes for WestJet out of YYC. (PHL is a small hub for AA, but that’s about it for this list.) And all are already pretty easily accessed as one-stop connections through our existing hub links like YYZ, MSP, ATL, etc.

Not to sound like a broken record, but I’d love it if YYC would aggressively pursue destinations that are hard to get to from YYC — like major centres in Mexico and LatAm. Our connectivity to the south (minus vacation beach resort airports) is generally pretty awful. For a city of our size, we’re really well served (spoiled, in fact) for Europe, Asia and the U.S. But much of the world south of Texas remains a “you can’t really get there from here” black hole requiring multiple connections and/or overnights at hub airports and/or a whole lot of travel time.

[hollywoodcory]

Originally Posted by Tobuz

They all seem unlikely, no?

None seem like they’d have big O+D numbers, and none are really relevant hubs for any airlines — so they could only be “spoke” routes for WestJet out of YYC. (PHL is a small hub for AA, but that’s about it for this list.) And all are already pretty easily accessed as one-stop connections through our existing hub links like YYZ, MSP, ATL, etc.

Not to sound like a broken record, but I’d love it if YYC would aggressively pursue destinations that are hard to get to from YYC — like major centres in Mexico and LatAm. Our connectivity to the south (minus vacation beach resort airports) is generally pretty awful. For a city of our size, we’re really well served (spoiled, in fact) for Europe, Asia and the U.S. But much of the world south of Texas remains a “you can’t really get there from here” black hole requiring multiple connections and/or overnights at hub airports and/or a whole lot of travel time.

You could also have argued CLT as being unlikely too but AA is taking a crack at it and even upped the aircraft before its launch. Not necessarily saying PHL likely, just that it has a better chance than MSY and BWI.

[hehehe]

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory

https://aviationweek.com/air-transpo...port-authority

This article mentions that YYC is pursing additional Transborder destinations and specifically mentioned PHL, MSY and BWI as targets.

Of those 3, I’m guessing PHL is the most likeliest. I believe WS has already attempted MSY previously.

PHL/MSY/BWI would be nice, but I'd prefer to see UA back to 2x daily on ORD and IAH in the wintertimes first lol.

[ace.yyc]

Can we get a god damn afternoon flight to MSP in the winter? Not having one is embarrassing at this point.

Originally Posted by msmariner

Can’t they put one of the flights in C gates? It’s not like the passengers need to be isolated.

Yes, and that has rarely happened, but there was zero advantage today. What Tobuz said is correct, so only one widebody qualifies... AC850 to LHR. It is inbound from YUL (almost always gate 56) then turns to LHR. Air Canada ground crew is far more competent than WestJet's however - so as soon as Discover to FRA pushed off 74, the AC 787 was coming around the corner.

In the peak of the rush today, there was nothing on international gates there that didn't need to be there. Transborder departures need to be there, and any international inbounds need to be there.

There were zero non-US international narrowbody departures (like KEF which doesn't op Thursday) that could have conceivably moved. The KEF tail originates in YYZ (which is why KEF has left late all 5 times so far) so that could be done on a C gate. But there is no need... yet.

[MalcolmTucker]

IAH connections into different departure banks would be great. Of course to do that is a trade off. I doubt we can justify having preclearance open at 2 am. I doubt much O&D would preference that time.

An easier IAH hotel would perhaps be a better option.

[Tobuz]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

IAH connections into different departure banks would be great. Of course to do that is a trade off. I doubt we can justify having preclearance open at 2 am. I doubt much O&D would preference that time.

An easier IAH hotel would perhaps be a better option.

The Houston situation is why so much of the world south of Texas, as I said, is "you can't really get there from here" for Calgary.

Westjet has taken too much of YYC-IAH away from United -- at least for those of us that would benefit from all of the destinations available from IAH. IAH a huge and useful hub with connections to anywhere, but for WS it's nothing but a dead-end spoke run. Great if you're going to/from Houston, but useless if you're going to/from anywhere else.

We have four flights a day to IAH now - not bad - except that 2 are on WS (meaning no access to connections at that major global hub). And even if you could build your own connection between WS and UA at IAH (which is risky for many reasons), the fact that they're competitors means that the timing for their flights often overlap. Rendering them even more useless.

I don't know that an even earlier UA departure from YYC would help (at least not for my destinations) and as you said it's probably not feasible. But 3 or 4 spread throughout the day (all by UA!) would go a long way to solving the problem. As would having WS cede IAH to United, which obviously won't happen.

An increase in DFW frequencies on AA could help solve for the problem, too, as DFW is a big, global hub comparable to IAH. But that seems equally unlikely to happen.

Again, taking out all of Westjet's beach holiday destinations, our connectivity to the south is really pretty awful. (That's not just Calgary -- it's the situation for all of AB, SK and MB.) YYC could solve for that if they (and the airline hubbed here) chose to prioritize it.

[Tobuz]

Originally Posted by hehehe

PHL/MSY/BWI would be nice, but I'd prefer to see UA back to 2x daily on ORD and IAH in the wintertimes first lol.

YES!

As much as new non-stop city names on the departure board can be fun to see, we need better access into major hub airports ... year round.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by Tobuz

Again, taking out all of Westjet's beach holiday destinations, our connectivity to the south is really pretty awful. (That's not just Calgary -- it's the situation for all of AB, SK and MB.) YYC could solve for that if they (and the airline hubbed here) chose to prioritize it.

Would be interesting to see the amount of PVR traffic going on to Mexico City. In my experience it is far more common today compared to nearly non-existent many years ago.

[Tobuz]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Would be interesting to see the amount of PVR traffic going on to Mexico City. In my experience it is far more common today compared to nearly non-existent many years ago.

Absolutely. People also build their own connections over Cancun to MEX and even MTY (plus other LatAm destinations) even though Cancun isn't really set up as a 'connecting' airport or as a hub. Some days we seem to have as many flights to CUN as we do to YYZ.

Unfortunately for YYC route development, all of those people appear as O+D between YYC/PVR or YYC/CUN, because the way that the connections have to be built make the real destinations less apparent.

And for people going to/from MID, the most common pattern seems to be a one-way connecting flight southbound using either UA or AA, and then - rather than flying back from the MID airport - doing a four hour drive to CUN in order to get back to YYC -- since there are usually zero practical connection options coming from MID to YYC.

[msmariner]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Would be interesting to see the amount of PVR traffic going on to Mexico City. In my experience it is far more common today compared to nearly non-existent many years ago.

It’s weird that no airlines (Westjet, AeroMexico) fly YYC-MEX. I realize the politics in the two Airports in Mexico City and outside airlines only being able to start new routes into the new airport. With AeroMexico being a SkyTeam member one would think it would be a perfect match between the 2 airlines.WS is already aligned with multiple SkyTeam members ( Delta,KLM/AF, Korean) that it would be a natural route. Both Hubs have so many connections to offer each other. It would open up so much of Latin/S. America to WS customers. Interesting why it hasn’t happened

[Tobuz]

I've done MEX/YVR many times on both AeroMexico and Air Canada.

From observation, it always seems like half of the passengers on those flights are connecting to/from Calgary ... plus more connecting to YEG and even YXE.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by msmariner

It’s weird that no airlines (Westjet, AeroMexico) fly YYC-MEX. I realize the politics in the two Airports in Mexico City and outside airlines only being able to start new routes into the new airport. With AeroMexico being a SkyTeam member one would think it would be a perfect match between the 2 airlines.WS is already aligned with multiple SkyTeam members ( Delta,KLM/AF, Korean) that it would be a natural route. Both Hubs have so many connections to offer each other. It would open up so much of Latin/S. America to WS customers. Interesting why it hasn’t happened

The flight existed at a time where Calgary utility companies were growing fast in Mexico, and there was visa free travel both ways. Politics has gotten in the way of both alas. With the politics of the new airport, and not being grandfathered in, will likely need to wait until the new airport evolves into the low cost hub (or one alliance decamps), and flights/airlines are shuffled between the two somewhat organically instead of arbitrarily.

[ace.yyc]

Another day, another "WHERE ARE THE MEX FLIGHTS" post. Might as well be required reading at this point, as if YYC-MEX is some hidden gold mine of cash that all airlines are too stupid to exploit.

[Tobuz]

Really? IIf you’d read the posts, you’d have seen that it was a broader discussion of the fact that YYC - and the entire Prairies region - has horrible access to anything “south of Texas” … ie Mexico and all of Latin America.

Other than WestJet’s seasonal beach destinations for vacationers, there’s a big black hole on the planet that is, as I said, simply “you can’t really get there from here” for YYC. At least not with out multiple connections or overnights en route or insanely complicated itineraries.

YYC to/from Europe? Easy. Asia? Easy. U.S.? Easy. But most places to the south on the planet (minus those beach vacation airports)? Frustratingly bad access to/from YYC.

As I said above, it’s gotten worse for YYC due to our IAH access. Now that we’re down to only 1 or 2 UA flights a day, we’ve lost a ton of useful access to United’s hub that is super well connected to that part of the world. That’s due to lower travel in the oil industry, AC’s dehubbing of YYC, and WestJet. When WS picked up a bunch of the IAH traffic at United’s expense, we lost UA frequencies into IAH, costing us good connections.

Problem 2 is that we have similarly limited access to DFW on AA. DFW is a close second behind IAH as a useful hub to access that whole part of the world.

But yes, Ace, as you noticed, we’ve also said better access to MEX would be nice.

[Tobuz]

… but, hey, the team at YYC are focused on getting us better access to Philadelphia and Baltimore instead. Already pretty easy places to get to.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by Tobuz

… but, hey, the team at YYC are focused on getting us better access to Philadelphia and Baltimore instead. Already pretty easy places to get to.

Both are perfect markets for super connecting to Asia for people that don’t want to go south to Dulles or North to New York.

There is no distance penalty due to the circle route and the need to avoid Russia.

[MrBigStuff]

Any coverage on the reconstruction of the old North/South runway???

[YYCguys]

Originally Posted by MrBigStuff

Any coverage on the reconstruction of the old North/South runway???

I don’t, but I’m surprised that I don’t hear more traffic overhead out here in Airdrie, which is lined up perfectly for the east runway!

[Nick]

Work is still ongoing. There's a giant pile of dirt near where the threshold of 17R is.

Expect a partial reopening in the summer. The runway will be operated as a shortened runway with arrivals only on 35L and departures only on 17R. It will be about 8000' in length. However expect heavy east runway usage until it's fully reopened.

[ace.yyc]

Originally Posted by Nick

Work is still ongoing. There's a giant pile of dirt near where the threshold of 17R is.

Expect a partial reopening in the summer. The runway will be operated as a shortened runway with arrivals only on 35L and departures only on 17R. It will be about 8000' in length. However expect heavy east runway usage until it's fully reopened.

The lack of 11 arrivals has been heartbreaking in Panorama. We were expecting 2013 levels of 11 action.

Originally Posted by Tobuz

… but, hey, the team at YYC are focused on getting us better access to Philadelphia and Baltimore instead. Already pretty easy places to get to.

God forbid they want a route to launch that won't cancel after operation for one season like MEX will...

I imagine the probability of the route's success is a factor in what they seek.