Mississauga & Brampton: Hurontario-Main LRT

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by osmo

Good for Peel Region. This project and the K-W LRT project is going to make Toronto look very stupid very soon. I'm happy cities are warming up to LRT, this looks great.

Toronto's too big for LRT on its corridors.

[goodthings]

Originally Posted by manrush

I'm curious: are there parts of the Hurontario line where elevation would be a better solution than at-grade running?

Perhaps a combination of both.

Hurontario looks horrible regardless of where you look (except for Port Credit). So an LRT at-grade is really the perfect solution for the entire length of the corridor. Putting a bridge over Hurontario will only worsen the streetscape.

[Doady]

There ARE sections of the Hurontario and Main St that are too narrow for separate ROW for LRT where the LRT will have to operate in mixed traffic. These sections are in the older parts of corridor and are 4 lanes wide max. If you look at the map in the first post on the first page of this thread, these sections are highlighted in blue.

[osmo]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

Toronto's too big for LRT on its corridors.

Too big.. how so? this Toront complex needs to stop, I've said many times Toronto people are the most spoiled when it comes to transit - moaning out the most irrational things.

Toronto is a suburban wasteland outside of the old city. LRT is ideal for these lower density parts of town.

[Doady]

Originally Posted by osmo

Too big.. how so? this Toront complex needs to stop, I've said many times Toronto people are the most spoiled when it comes to transit - moaning out the most irrational things.

Toronto is a suburban wasteland outside of the old city. LRT is ideal for these lower density parts of town.

A true suburban wasteland would not be able to support LRT either. Suburbia within the City of Toronto is not typical suburbia. Hurontario is not a typical suburban corridor either. Saying that Toronto is a suburban wasteland as an argument against subway is just a dumb argument because you can use the exact same argument against LRT, BRT, and even regular buses. Suburban wastelands don't have a plethora of bus routes with 3 to 5 minute frequency throughout the day.

[goodthings]

Cross-posted with the Canadian Transit thread.

All the documents:
http://lrt-mississauga.brampton.ca/E...s/Welcome.aspx

The display panels:
http://lrt-mississauga.brampton.ca/E...25_26_2012.pdf

This is the current status of the Hurontario LRT.

Some highlights:
- 28 stops, 850 m average stop spacing, 44-minute journey from end-to-end.
- distinguished LRT from streetcars
- highlighted the disadvantage of Waterloo Region's LRT-BRT mix.
- Brampton's Zum Route 502 sees 7,500 riders a day
- MiWay's switch from 202 to 103 boosted ridership by 24% to 4,550 riders a day. Ergo, Hurontario corridor within Mississauga alone must be carrying more than 30,000 riders a day.
- now removed the one-way loop at Downtown Brampton, will run two-way along Main Street instead.
- most platforms will see entrances at both ends, and some stations within Mississauga will cover two streets (ex. Cooksville GO Stop will have exits at BOTH John Street and Hillcrest Avenue, northbound Dundas LRT Station will have exits at BOTH Dundas Street and Agnes Street).
- Because of that, there will be mid-block stoplights. This will definitely catch drivers by surprise when the LRt undergoes construction.
- looks like the ENTIRE corridor, including the narrow ones, will get dedicated LRT lanes (i.e. the Port Credit, Main Street South, and Living Arts Drive segment will be reduced to just one lane each),
- houses fronting Hurontario will have to undergo RIRO (right-in, right-out) system to access their houses.
- Contemplating between transit mall or one lane per direction at Downtown Brampton. Regardless of the result, on-street parking along Main will be taken away.

There is a rumour that Brampton, despite their aggressiveness in bus transit, wants to cut the LRT to just Steeles, and if it's true, that's BAD NEWS. This is becoming more of a Mississauga project than a Peel project.

[Doady]

Unfortunately, a few years ago Brampton rejected LRT on Main, so it is no longer Hurontario-Main LRT, it's just Hurontario LRT now. That means no more LRT north of Shopper's World to connect to Downtown Brampton or Queen Street.

I think they made a mistake replacing the proposed LRT loop in Downtown Brampton with a more disruptive two-way LRT on Main. I guess the idea was to allow for future extension north of Downtown Brampton but the ridership is not there for extension anyways. And now there won't be LRT in Downtown Brampton at all.

Since I made this thread, new weekday ridership numbers became available for this corridor as of 2012:

2 Main 2,720
19 Hurontario 20,544
103 Hurontario Express 7,248
502 Zum Main 9,244

That's around 40,000 boardings total per weekday for the Hurontario-Main buses, and 1/4 of that ridership is for the 502 Zum Main route, which connects Mississauga City Centre to Downtown Brampton. The LRT will no longer provide that connection, so it will inconvenience a lot of people.

[Doady]

Some updates:

- started construction in 2020
- $4.6 billion
- no more loop through Mississauga City Centre (not really needed anyways)
- 19 Hurontario split into 2 Hurontario South and 17 Hurontario North, 103 Hurontario Express truncated to Queensway, to accommodate construction delays
- Hurontario reduced to 1-2 lanes in each direction
- renamed to Hazel McCallion Line in tribute to the former mayor passed away last year
- potential extension further into Brampton still on the table, but City of Brampton still opposes on-street LRT, so good luck with that
- originally scheduled to open later this year, but early 2025 more likely



Hazel McCallion Line (Metrolinx)

Brampton Transit and MiWay ridership increased to 41 million and 45 million respectively in 2023 (approximately 60 million boardings each), so the overcrowding problems have spread beyond Hurontario Street. The LRT will not only increase capacity for Hurontario but also free up buses to address overcrowding outside of Hurontario, so the delayed opening is unfortunate (but not unexpected considering what has been going on with the Eglinton Crosstown LRT still under construction in Toronto after 10+ years...).

While the City of Brampton continues to push for a $3 billion 2km LRT tunnel along Main Street, the City of Mississauga still continues to push for the "downtown loop" branch with 5 minute service, for combined 2.5 minute service with both branches. Yeah, good luck with that too...

Province accepts Initial Business Case for Brampton’s downtown LRT expansion, but will not commit to $3B tunnel
Downtown Loop (City of Mississauga)