Manitoba Intercity Transportation Future

[FactaNV]

Hey all! I came across this study (and possible project) in an old news article and I thought it was interesting. https://rmofpiney.mb.ca/transit-plan/

It got me wondering what you guys think, how viable do we think this could be going forward?

What do you guys think networks, cost, lines, etc could look like? Seems like an interesting chat.

(Link to the survey) https://www.rmofreynolds.com/Home/Do...2-78c02f1ce802

[Dengler Avenue]

Coordinate with Ontario Northland Transit Commission (ONTC) to provide full-day coverage between Winnipeg and Dryden maybe

[FactaNV]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Coordinate with Ontario Northland Transit Commission (ONTC) to provide full-day coverage between Winnipeg and Dryden maybe

That'd be sweet. Obviously start local, become regional and then we can worry about interprovincial but I'd love a cheap ride to Kenora for a day trip.

[peg]

Very interesting - Thank you for sharing!

I'm glad to see that it is being discussed at the very least.

Lots of potential for regional connectivity in South MB...

Hope that something comes of this down the line, and hopefully, inspires other RMs to look into this.

[peg]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Coordinate with Ontario Northland Transit Commission (ONTC) to provide full-day coverage between Winnipeg and Dryden maybe

Unironically yes.

[FactaNV]

Originally Posted by peg

Very interesting - Thank you for sharing!

I'm glad to see that it is being discussed at the very least.

Lots of potential for regional connectivity in South MB...

Hope that something comes of this down the line, and hopefully, inspires other RMs to look into this.

To start, it probably makes the most sense in this region. Lots of 1000+ towns in a relatively small area (by Western Canadian standards). Once they're connected it'd make sense to add in Beausejour, Oakbank, Dugald, heck, even Selkirk and maybe Gimli and other Interlake towns in the distant future. Let's hope something gets off the ground in the SE and picks up steam North of the Number 1

[WildCake]

Originally Posted by FactaNV

To start, it probably makes the most sense in this region. Lots of 1000+ towns in a relatively small area (by Western Canadian standards). Once they're connected it'd make sense to add in Beausejour, Oakbank, Dugald, heck, even Selkirk and maybe Gimli and other Interlake towns in the distant future. Let's hope something gets off the ground in the SE and picks up steam North of the Number 1

There would need to be a significant amount of capital invested and the ones holding the purse strings should be ready for several years of low ridership.

Residents in bedroom communities already have their car-centric routines established and the benefits of switching modes would have to outweigh the cons. These busses would have to be frequent enough and have a decently late schedule that they would not be worried about missing the last one at 5:00 pm if a meeting runs late.

The cost of missing a bus goes up substantially for an out-of towner than in Winnipeg. If I miss the last bus that goes near my place, I can either take one that brings me a ~15 min walk away, or just take an uber directly from work to the tune of 15$. An Uber to Niverville from Downtown would probably cost close to a hotel night stay.

If there isn't that frequency and service length then all that gets captured are the seniors needing a ride for shopping or appointments, and most communities/care homes already have some sort of mechanism in place for that. But guarantee that a well serviced route will also be quite empty, especially in the first few years.

I really do like the concept and hope one day it does happen though.

[bomberjet]

The Winnipeg-Selkirk bus line is closed now IIRC. Couldn't even make that profitable anymore.

[FactaNV]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

The Winnipeg-Selkirk bus line is closed now IIRC. Couldn't even make that profitable anymore.

I don't think that profit should be the motive for now. It should be a public service, just like Selkirk or Winnipeg Transit. We shouldn't need to make money to allow movement between our cities at the bare minimum.

[Ozabald]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Coordinate with Ontario Northland Transit Commission (ONTC) to provide full-day coverage between Winnipeg and Dryden maybe

Ontario Northland does offer 2 trips (6x weekly) between Winnipeg and Thunder Bay; 1 trip WB and 1 EB. Three weekly trips go via Kenora, Dryden, Ignace and three go via Kenora, Fort Frances, Atikokan. Manitoba stops include two in Winnipeg and in Richer and Prawda. Interestingly, ticket sales are allowed for travel between Winnipeg and Richer or Prawda; and between Richer and Prawda.

[FactaNV]

Originally Posted by Ozabald

Interestingly, ticket sales are allowed for travel between Winnipeg and Richer or Prawda; and between Richer and Prawda.

Deadly, the government of Ontario provides more intercity service than any municipal government or our provincial government. Love that.

[bodaggin]

In the smaller centers you'd be better off launching a ride share app. Hitchhiker Bus Lines. The market is too small for any defined service.

More established routes like Steinbach to Wpg for commutes, or Wpg to Kenora for weekends, you've got a business potential. It's tough to beat the car out here though.

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by FactaNV

I don't think that profit should be the motive for now. It should be a public service, just like Selkirk or Winnipeg Transit. We shouldn't need to make money to allow movement between our cities at the bare minimum.

Fair point.

[dennis]

I think it will need to be a government funded system unfortunately. Maybe similar to the GO trains in Ontario except buses. MBus? Maybe only to the nearby major cities. Winnipeg to:
Portage-Brandon
Morden-Winkler
Selkirk
Steinbach

It may be a while to build demand from population growth.

[FactaNV]

Originally Posted by dennis

I think it will need to be a government funded system unfortunately. Maybe similar to the GO trains in Ontario except buses. MBus? Maybe only to the nearby major cities. Winnipeg to:
Portage-Brandon
Morden-Winkler
Selkirk
Steinbach

It may be a while to build demand from population growth.

I think that'd be a good start. A lot easier for a senior from Virden or a teenager trying to go to the mall from Souris to get to Brandon and hop a bus than it is to get all the way to Winnipeg.

[bodaggin]

Again, rideshare/carpooling is the only viable option for this. Scheduled bus service is not feasible (by gov or business). Here's pop-a-ride.

This is different than Uber which is ride HAILING. Dedicated, like a Taxi..... RideSHARE is jumping in with someone. Hitching, carpooling. You can do it on the fly too.

The key is, you get infinitely higher trip frequency, infinitely more destinations, and fractions of the cost with ride sharing.
Because the person is already driving there anyway.

I'll mock you up a proto-type app when I get a chance. But it's hard to compete with already established guys like this.

[bodaggin]

Here. I hacked this up in 45min. Sorry for the low res gif. Nothing is hooked up, but it should give you the idea.

Hitch a ride from passerby's. Accept hitchers en route for extra cash.

Digital hitch-hiking, ride-share, carpool--whatever you want to call it. Infinite routes, infinite frequency. And the lowest possible cost since driver is driving there anyways, not making a dedicated trip for their passenger like a ride-hail (Uber, Lyft, Bus, Taxi, etc).

[FactaNV]

A little thread necromancy here - more of a history question, has there ever been a consideration to use Manitoba's shortlines to run passenger rail? There's more short trackage than I realized as per the provincial website. Obviously there are significant gaps to anywhere useful beyond the Lake but as a fun thought experiment, I can think of some ways these tracks could be useful in building larger networks. Any insights are much appreciated.

https://www.gov.mb.ca/mti/mcd/shortline_rail/index.html

[bodaggin]

The only ones that might make sense are the Selkirk run. Maybe Gimli run on weekends. Doubtfully Warren. And even still they only make sense if CoW converts existing rails to LRT because intermodal creates an automatic transfer.

Rail is high capacity. Rural towns are the opposite, barren. It makes more sense to slap a bus on a medium capacity route (IE within 20min of Wpg) and have the flexibility to change route at any time without having to build a whole new rail line. Roads are flexible.

Any less volume for rural towns doesn't even support a bus or fixed route and gets back to car-pool.

Car pool is the only way this can viably be done on a rural small town basis. Is demand enough? I dunno. Everyone rural has cars.

I would say I'd consider building out an app. But Poparide is basically at critical mass. Around 1m users. From a business standpoint, any build would be a takeover target to Poparide. Not sure it's worth it.

They've basically got this one solved man. A little more growth and the network will reach all corners. Even rural. Not trying to burst your bubble. Just laying reality.

[FactaNV]

Originally Posted by bodaggin

The only ones that might make sense are the Selkirk run. Maybe Gimli run on weekends. Doubtfully Warren. And even still they only make sense if CoW converts existing rails to LRT because intermodal creates an automatic transfer.

Rail is high capacity. Rural towns are the opposite, barren. It makes more sense to slap a bus on a medium capacity route (IE within 20min of Wpg) and have the flexibility to change route at any time without having to build a whole new rail line. Roads are flexible.

Any less volume for rural towns doesn't even support a bus or fixed route and gets back to car-pool.

Car pool is the only way this can viably be done on a rural small town basis. Is demand enough? I dunno. Everyone rural has cars.

I would say I'd consider building out an app. But Poparide is basically at critical mass. Around 1m users. From a business standpoint, any build would be a takeover target to Poparide. Not sure it's worth it.

They've basically got this one solved man. A little more growth and the network will reach all corners. Even rural. Not trying to burst your bubble. Just laying reality.

You're not wrong, I know that they'll never run a train to Hamiota or Zhoda, MB but you brought up what I was thinking, the North South line would actually be useful. Connecting the lines in E Selkirk and Selkirk and adding some track to Winkler would connect Winkler - Morden to Winnipeg, Winnipeg to Selkirk to the lake country around Winnipeg Beach and Gimli. That's a lion's share of the province using existing track. An East West to Brandon would be a lot harder to swallow but for now, if existing short runs could run passenger rail, that'd be a huge win for movement and connectivity in Manitoba and Canada writ large by connecting most of our cities (Thompson, Portage and Dauphin are already connected via Via Rail but it isn't nearly frequent enough to be useful) for a fraction of the cost of new rail. For rolling stock I'm sure it wouldnt be tough to find some cars and use the existing format of power on those tracks.

Something like this might even incentivize people to spread out from Winnipeg. If I could live in Gimli on the lake with all the nature around it but I could commute to work on a 80-90 MPH train, I'd make that move, bringing my wages with me (bearing in mind I have no clue what the state of those tracks are like, to get them to 80-90 MPH/ Class 4 Class 5 ratings might be prohibitive.

Obviously a pipe dream but I can dream nonetheless haha.