LRT Stage 3

[Ottawaresident]

LRT Stage 3 maps! https://www.flickr.com/photos/rakerm...posted-public/

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Ottawaresident

LRT Stage 3 maps! https://www.flickr.com/photos/rakerm...posted-public/

Priority should be Kanata, Barrhaven and downtown Hull (all 3) for Stage 3.

By Kanata, I mean Terry Fox. Anything beyond that should be Stage 4 or later.

Gatineau should have their own plan for their own riders to get to downtown Ottawa. That plan should be independent of Stage 3 (though obviously there needs to be co-ordination).

[rocketphish]

Originally Posted by Ottawaresident

LRT Stage 3 maps! https://www.flickr.com/photos/rakerm...posted-public/

Yes, Jimbo tweeted this two weeks ago:
https://twitter.com/JimWatsonOttawa/...23471156199430

[Abe Simpson]

A subway down Bank St. is the most logical choice. Sorry, but suburban hells like Kanata should not get the LRT to the very end. This city will not develop properly if you are ignoring the downtown core. Montreal Road would be my second choice. This is a low income area that could greatly benefit from better transportation and these people will use it outside of peak hours Monday to Friday.

[613Steve]

I'm sure it's financially unfeasible but a grade separated train going along Montreal Rd., intersecting the Confederation Line at either Rideau or Parliament and then continuing down Bank St. to Billing's Bridge is the dream

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Abe Simpson

A subway down Bank St. is the most logical choice. Sorry, but suburban hells like Kanata should not get the LRT to the very end. This city will not develop properly if you are ignoring the downtown core. Montreal Road would be my second choice. This is a low income area that could greatly benefit from better transportation and these people will use it outside of peak hours Monday to Friday.

You (and I) are among the minority who think that central neighbourhoods should receive better service. Both Bank Street and Montreal Road have plenty of opportunities for intensification and renewal.

The experts believe that intensification should be along the Queensway, despite being of questionable attractiveness to potential buyers.

[Truenorth00]

LOL @ Bank St. subway. Cause the feds and Queen's Park will happily fund a subway at > $300M/km for a city of 1 million.....

Ideally, the Trillium Line upgrades would have been a separate Stage 3 with full attention given to twin tracking and electrification. But thanks to all the politics pushing "equal" expansion, they got a single track extension. And improvements here are probably stage 4.

Fixing Trillium and integration with Gatineau should be Stage 3. But I'm going to guess Stage 3 is going to be entirely about Barrhaven and Kanata.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

LOL @ Bank St. subway. Cause the feds and Queen's Park will happily fund a subway at > $300M/km for a city of 1 million.....

Ideally, the Trillium Line upgrades would have been a separate Stage 3 with full attention given to twin tracking and electrification. But thanks to all the politics pushing "equal" expansion, they got a single track extension. And improvements here are probably stage 4.

Fixing Trillium and integration with Gatineau should be Stage 3. But I'm going to guess Stage 3 is going to be entirely about Barrhaven and Kanata.

Sorry, no more Trillium upgrades. This is it.

[JohnnyRenton]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Fixing Trillium and integration with Gatineau should be Stage 3. But I'm going to guess Stage 3 is going to be entirely about Barrhaven and Kanata.

All depends on whether it is partial of full extensions to Kanata and Barrhaven. Moodie to Stittsville is almost $2 billion alone. To Barrhaven and the full length of the Transitway will be just over $1 billion. Like this round, they can probably put aside another $500 million for "other projects". I don't think the T-Line (at least the section from roughly Walkley to Bayview) is going to see any investment in the next round. Far more likely that they will adopt a sort of "fix the south" project where they convert the SE Transitway to LRT from Hurdman to Walkley(ish), join it up with the T-Line, and upgrade the southern portions so that it brings it up to C-Line standards.

I know some think that this prediction for the T-Line might sound like doom and gloom, but this plan doubled down on the pilot project nature of the line, instead of pushing it towards modernization and integration. I don't even think that is a bad thing either. I think its time to rethink the T-Line. That said, I do think there are a lot of unknowns about phase 3 until phase 2 really gets underway and people get a better grasp of what it means.

[Kitchissippi]

As mentioned in council today, the pinch point with the Trillium line is at Walkley. If that section was double tracked (contingent on replacing the bridge), they could improve the frequency to 10 minutes.

After all the drama today, I think Stage 1 needs to be a runaway success and demonstrate the expected operating cost savings to the transit system, otherwise there won't be an appetite to initiate Stage 3 while Stage 2 is in the works. It's just too much for the city to take on.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by JohnnyRenton

All depends on whether it is partial of full extensions to Kanata and Barrhaven. Moodie to Stittsville is almost $2 billion alone. To Barrhaven and the full length of the Transitway will be just over $1 billion.

Moodie to Stittsville ain't happening in Stage 3. Way too expensive. Ridership gains would be minimal beyond Terry Fox too. They'll go to Terry Fox. And extend to Fallowfield in the Southwest. I doubt, if funding can be found, they can afford more than that. Or even justify it.

Ottawa was right to push hard in Stage 1 and Stage 2. It's very likely that both the provincial and federal government are going to be in for some belt-tightening going forward. If that's the case, Ottawa doing so much in Stage 2 is going to look like a genius move. I wouldn't expect future stages to be anywhere as large investments.

Originally Posted by JohnnyRenton

Far more likely that they will adopt a sort of "fix the south" project where they convert the SE Transitway to LRT from Hurdman to Walkley(ish), join it up with the T-Line, and upgrade the southern portions so that it brings it up to C-Line standards.

As has been covered elsewhere, the SE Transitway probably makes little sense to convert as long as the capacity isn't necessary. It's fairly quick for a bus ride and saves a transfer over LRT. Just get on you feeder bus and you end up at Hurdman eventually, just two stops from the downtown core.

Originally Posted by JohnnyRenton

I think its time to rethink the T-Line.

Stage 2 Trillium is a go. There won't be any "rethink" for at least 1-2 decades.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Abe Simpson

A subway down Bank St. is the most logical choice. Sorry, but suburban hells like Kanata should not get the LRT to the very end. This city will not develop properly if you are ignoring the downtown core. Montreal Road would be my second choice. This is a low income area that could greatly benefit from better transportation and these people will use it outside of peak hours Monday to Friday.

That would be my personal choice, but speaking objectively, Barrhaven and Kanata (Corel Centre) is probably the best option for Stage 3 in order to complete the suburban piece of our rapid-transit network.

Extending the Trillium to Chaudière/Zibi should also be part of Stage 3; relatively cheap and should be easy to convince the Feds to fund on their own. Anything else from Gatineau to Ottawa should be completed by Gatineau.

Next, Ottawa should focus on the Bank-Rideau-Montreal corridor.

For the other options, I assume Orleans means building the Cumberland Transitway as rail? That could be part of Stage 5 as an extension of the Montreal Road subway.

Rural commuter rail could be considered as the 6th priority if we ever re-open Union as our railway terminus.

As for the S/E Transitway, I don't see that ever needing to be converted.

As for Trillium, it should be double tracked and electrified bit-by-bit over the next few decades.

What I see as the City's priority based on the current mentality is Kanata/Barrhaven/Gatineau, followed by Cumberland Transitway as rail and then the S/E Transitway. I would greatly disapprove of this sequencing.

[Gat-Train]

A Rideau-Montreal subway is the priority, given that they scrapped the bus lanes. Hard to justify a Bank Street subway to Queen's park with the Trillium line a few kilometres to the west tho. The suburbs have gotten rail, time to focus on low-income urban transit.

[corynv]

Originally Posted by Gat-Train

A Rideau-Montreal subway is the priority, given that they scrapped the bus lanes. Hard to justify a Bank Street subway to Queen's park with the Trillium line a few kilometres to the west tho. The suburbs have gotten rail, time to focus on low-income urban transit.

There's still the option of running it down bank 'till landsdown. Which i believe most people think should be part of a phase 1 for said project.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by corynv

There's still the option of running it down bank 'till landsdown. Which i believe most people think should be part of a phase 1 for said project.

How much more would it cost to continue it to Billings? Would be silly to end it so close without providing a direct transfer to the SE Transitway.

[AndyZagg]

Originally Posted by corynv

There's still the option of running it down bank 'till landsdown. Which i believe most people think should be part of a phase 1 for said project.

Bring back the streetcars on Bank Street!

[Kitchissippi]

You guys can dream about a Bank Street-Montreal Road subway all you want but it does not appear in the official TMP. The plan would have to be revised before anyone can even consider it. How long did it take to make the last iteration? The only cleared path for Stage 3 is the current "Ultimate Network"

[gjhall]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

You guys can dream about a Bank Street-Montreal Road subway all you want but it does not appear in the official TMP. The plan would have to be revised before anyone can even consider it. How long did it take to make the last iteration? The only cleared path for Stage 3 is the current "Ultimate Network"

Sure, but luckily the city is beginning the process of a new Official Plan.

[OtrainUser]

Originally Posted by gjhall

Sure, but luckily the city is beginning the process of a new Official Plan.

Makes no difference, putting a subway under Montreal road or bank street will be too expensive so its not going to happen.

[JayBuoy]

Originally Posted by OtrainUser

Makes no difference, putting a subway under Montreal road or bank street will be too expensive so its not going to happen.

I think the most realistic possibility for Montreal/Rideau would be surface RT/tram. Tunnelling wold make it too expensive. And all it would take is the political will (easier said that done, I know) to convert Montreal/Rideau, and even Bank to transit priority streets. That would enable a tram line.
Near term, though, I would like to see surface LRT on Carling, rather than bus lanes. With all the major proposals down that way it would make sense, and it's in the official plan.