Chinese Investors Driving Up Metro Housing Prices

[logan5]

For myself, I like to go to El Salvador for screenings and check-ups.

[Caliplanner1]

Originally Posted by Jebby

That just isn't true.

• Medicaid and CHIP cover nearly 70 million people, or about 22% of the US population.
• There are also about 50 million Medicare recipients, which represent another 15% of the population (and growing every year).
• Another 10-12 million people receive subsidies through ACA to buy private health insurance, that's another 5% of the population.
• Then there's close to 10 million veterans who get their healthcare through the VA.
• And about 9 million people get healthcare through Tricare.

There's also about $5 billion a year giving in federal grants to community health clinics. Plus state programs for health clinics

Jebby, those comparative numbers don't reflect the extent (re: the degree of medical probes-i.e. using Cat Scans and other advanced technologies) and quality of health care (re: medical time spent with specialists etc.) delivered in the states.

[Jebby]

Originally Posted by logan5

For myself, I like to go to El Salvador for screenings and check-ups.

My mom lives in El Salvador. She says it's like living in a Spanish-speaking Congo.

[Caliplanner1]

Originally Posted by cornholio

Canadian health care system is pathetic and one of the biggest draw backs to living here considering you only have one health / one life. My wife who is Brazilian and all her Brazilian friends go back to Brazil or the US for all treatment. She has many Mexican and Latin American friends (worked for a Spain company for well over a decade dealing with Latin America/EU and speaks near native Spanish) and they also go back home or to the US for treatment. They are all afraid of the Canadian health care system. As for me I am originally from central/eastern Europe and everyone I know also goes back home for any checks / screenings/ and major problems. I have gone through the Canadian health care system my self a few times due to serious injuries and never again. I am lucky to be alive and in other cases I suffered for way too long before being treated. My mother was a nurse back in Europe before coming here and she is horrified of the system here, now she spends time back and forth and makes sure she gets all her treatments and screenings back home. The Canadian health care system is broken and dangerous, which is unfortunate because Canada is a great country.

As for Jebby, I think I made my point. Don't get me wrong, I know how Mexico functions and I know where your family fits in. If I was in your shoes and born into money that has probably been passed down for generations I would do exactly the same thing. I however was not born into money, I was born in a communist country with nothing and came to Canada with my family as political refugees with literally nothing, not a single dollar and just the bags we could fit on the plane. No inheritances. No nothing. Everything me, my family my brothers built is from nothing, and we have all done very well.

Also as for someone asking why live in Mexico City? If you have money and speak Spanish then Mexico City is a great place to live and much better then Vancouver. If you don't have money or are just middle class then Mexico city obviously sucks. Mexico is a very unequal country and it provides a very good life for those at the very top, very good life and the 80's/90's are over and done with and the risk of a leftist uprising is as low as ever, hence Jebby's family going back.

Here's the irony...access to scarce (good) health care benefits in the U.S. and even Latin America for that matter is a relative cost function of supply and demand...where MOST are RELATIVELY poor and thus unable to put significant demand pressure on the respective national health care system at the top end of service delivery. Hence, there is greater access to certain types of medical services (at the lower end) the quality though (as is the case with Medicaid) being questionable.

[Jebby]

Originally Posted by Caliplanner1

Jebby, those comparative numbers don't reflect the extent (re: the degree of medical probes-i.e. using Cat Scans and other advanced technologies) and quality of health care (re: medical time spent with specialists etc.) delivered in the states.

Did I say anything remotely close to that? No.

I was correcting Warren's claim that the US has no public funding of healthcare. In fact, a majority of healthcare spending in the US is by government.


http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin...alth-spending/

[Jebby]

Originally Posted by cornholio

Canadian health care system is pathetic and one of the biggest draw backs to living here considering you only have one health / one life. My wife who is Brazilian and all her Brazilian friends go back to Brazil or the US for all treatment. She has many Mexican and Latin American friends (worked for a Spain company for well over a decade dealing with Latin America/EU and speaks near native Spanish) and they also go back home or to the US for treatment. They are all afraid of the Canadian health care system. As for me I am originally from central/eastern Europe and everyone I know also goes back home for any checks / screenings/ and major problems. I have gone through the Canadian health care system my self a few times due to serious injuries and never again. I am lucky to be alive and in other cases I suffered for way too long before being treated. My mother was a nurse back in Europe before coming here and she is horrified of the system here, now she spends time back and forth and makes sure she gets all her treatments and screenings back home. The Canadian health care system is broken and dangerous, which is unfortunate because Canada is a great country.

Well at least we agree on one thing.

Originally Posted by cornholio

Also as for someone asking why live in Mexico City? If you have money and speak Spanish then Mexico City is a great place to live and much better then Vancouver. If you don't have money or are just middle class then Mexico city obviously sucks. Mexico is a very unequal country and it provides a very good life for those at the very top, very good life and the 80's/90's are over and done with and the risk of a leftist uprising is as low as ever, hence Jebby's family going back.

Actually my family (parents and brother, that is) haven't moved back to Mexico. I moved back because I got a very good job offer from a foreign company to head up their offices here.

And I like how you claim to know my family history and circumstances perfectly. Way to judge someone and their family that you don't know at all.

Just fyi, most of my great-grandparents were immigrants to Mexico, who like your family, came with nothing but the clothes on their backs and hope for a better life.

[Caliplanner1]

Originally Posted by Jebby

Did I say anything remotely close to that? No.

I was correcting Warren's claim that the US has no public funding of healthcare. In fact, a majority of healthcare spending in the US is by government.


http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin...alth-spending/

I didn't say that you made any such assertion...but your lack of clarity on quality versus quantity led me to promote a succinct point of distinction needed in the discussion. And yes, as with all aspects of the U.S. economy the U.S. government is the girding economic factor for the private sector as it the largest single user of national resources and employer of human resources with which to sustain private sector profits (via government contracts/bail outs/subsidies etc.).

[Klazu]

I am at work right now, but this is interesting...

Vancouver Housing Market Implodes: Average Home Price Plunges 20% In 1 Month - "The Market Is Devastated"

[s211]

Originally Posted by Klazu

I am at work right now, but this is interesting...

Vancouver Housing Market Implodes: Average Home Price Plunges 20% In 1 Month - "The Market Is Devastated"

I'd hazard the simple average is being distorted by the dearth of high-end sales resulting from the 15% tax shock. Once the market adapts, that might normalize things a bit, whatever normal means these days.

[logicbomb]

Remember when people were underestimating the effect foreign investors were having on the housing market?

Now you also got the Fraser Valley Real Estate Board trying to "fight the tax."

[GMasterAres]

Ugh there's that "Average" again which is truly meaningless without a bit of context. Last I checked $1.1 million is still hardly affordable. Wake me up when the bulk majority of houses across Metro Vancouver reach $500,000 then I'll wave the "market crash" flag.

Until then I hold the opinion that only really expensive houses have "crashed" causing the numbers to be skewed but the majority of houses in the middle tier haven't moved much. Unless someone can point to me the houses that were listed throughout the suburbs for $750-$850,000 that are now listed for $550-$650,000. I'll give you hint, there are none.

And as for all the other BS on the last few pages, not sure why people are up in arms about Jebby's comments. As troll-like as he is from time to time around here, I'd have to agree with him that painting all "foreigners" with the same paint brush is not only unfair but quite frankly dangerous. We're a region founded on foreign investment both in dollars and in human capital (people immigrating to Canada and Metro-Vancouver specifically). The reason I dislike Donald Trump so much is that he paints entire groups with a single brush stroke. All Mexicans are X. All Blacks are Y. All Muslims are Z. And that's just ridiculous and it's ridiculous to see it here.

Do we have some unethical and dangerous foreign investors in the region? Of course. Do some people who live here as residents enjoying our benefits but under-declaring their income to milk the system piss me off? Absolutely. But the positive side of me is fairly certain these people make up a minority of those in the region. I'd rather the government stick to closing loopholes and punishing those that commit fraud. But let's not label everyone that happens to have not been born in Metro-Vancouver the same.

Finally, the United States does have one of the, if not the most advanced and capable of medical systems on the planet. The fact that it isn't as affordable as other systems around the world, or that you largely need to be in a higher wealth bracket to enjoy the full benefits, doesn't take away from that fact. I wouldn't trade the Canadian medical system for any in the world right now quite honestly, but it isn't perfect and has a lot more holes that people will admit. And quite frankly most people that praise the Canadian medical system I honestly feel haven't used it truly. When you really need it, then you realize how much room for improvement there is. Just try getting an MRI for an injury that isn't an emergency then we'll see how amazing you think it is.

[mezzanine]

Originally Posted by jhausner

Finally, the United States does have one of the, if not the most advanced and capable of medical systems on the planet. The fact that it isn't as affordable as other systems around the world, or that you largely need to be in a higher wealth bracket to enjoy the full benefits, doesn't take away from that fact. I wouldn't trade the Canadian medical system for any in the world right now quite honestly, but it isn't perfect and has a lot more holes that people will admit. And quite frankly most people that praise the Canadian medical system I honestly feel haven't used it truly. When you really need it, then you realize how much room for improvement there is. Just try getting an MRI for an injury that isn't an emergency then we'll see how amazing you think it is.

not to beat a dead horse, but direct comparisons of medical systems are difficult to consider. That being said, it is a solid fact that the US spends far, far more per capita on health care than other developed contries.

It's also not hard to get a fast MRI in Canada if you want to pay privately. It's conjecture if you consider it part of the system of a failure of the system, but you have that option, even for primary care or most types of specialty care.

I don't doubt that the US has the best care if you have 1%-type wealth.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

Remember when people were underestimating the effect foreign investors were having on the housing market?

Now you also got the Fraser Valley Real Estate Board trying to "fight the tax."

Many locals are just waiting for the big plunge before committing to buy. Previously fear of being left out made many fish out insane amounts to purchase.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by jhausner

And as for all the other BS on the last few pages, not sure why people are up in arms about Jebby's comments. As troll-like as he is from time to time around here, I'd have to agree with him that painting all "foreigners" with the same paint brush is not only unfair but quite frankly dangerous. We're a region founded on foreign investment both in dollars and in human capital (people immigrating to Canada and Metro-Vancouver specifically). The reason I dislike Donald Trump so much is that he paints entire groups with a single brush stroke. All Mexicans are X. All Blacks are Y. All Muslims are Z. And that's just ridiculous and it's ridiculous to see it here.

Do we have some unethical and dangerous foreign investors in the region? Of course. Do some people who live here as residents enjoying our benefits but under-declaring their income to milk the system piss me off? Absolutely. But the positive side of me is fairly certain these people make up a minority of those in the region. I'd rather the government stick to closing loopholes and punishing those that commit fraud. But let's not label everyone that happens to have not been born in Metro-Vancouver the same.

AFAIK, this was the catalyst:

Originally Posted by Jebby

We should be welcoming every single millionaire that wants to move to Canada and bring their money with them.

Which is basically stroking the paint brush in the other direction: assuming that every millionaire is virtuous, coming to Canada to settle down, and will eventually invest all their millions here.
If that were the case, the current clustershag in the housing and public service departments would not be happening on this kind of scale.

Ideally, we'd want to attract investors and businesses and ALSO repel upper-class freeloaders; since housing prices are driving businesses and workers away, implementing policies that drive said prices down allows the province to do both. If that's a distortion of the free market, so be it - it seems to be failing us anyway.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

AFAIK, this was the catalyst:

(jhausner post above)

Which is basically stroking the paint brush in the other direction: assuming that every millionaire is virtuous, coming to Canada to settle down, and will invest all their money here.
If that were the case, the current clustershag in the housing and public service departments would not be happening on this kind of scale.

Ideally, we'd want to attract investors and businesses and ALSO repel upper-class freeloaders; since housing prices are driving businesses and workers away, implementing policies that drive said prices down allows the province to do both. If that's a distortion of the free market, so be it - it seems to be failing us anyway.

"Somethin's gotta give, somethin's gotta give, somethin's gotta giiiiive "
Corny as that is, I naturally have a feeling for people who cannot afford to live here. It's very disappointing and life-and carerr-disrupting.
I also fear Vancouver "losing out" on many companies setting up there, and the absence of a more reasonable market price "demoting" the city in economic status and importance.
This is ****ing up the city, its future, and its children's future big-time.
And there isn't enough time to mull over it, conider it, or debate it. Good thing they're starting actiow, but it seems to need to
be stricter, maybe along what I understand are Australian-type restrictions, if those are more effective.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by s211

I'd hazard the simple average is being distorted by the dearth of high-end sales resulting from the 15% tax shock. Once the market adapts, that might normalize things a bit, whatever normal means these days.

Agreed, The average price is useless here as it will be dragged down by a downturn in very expensive properties.

Isn't it fascinating that the real estate pimps used Benchmark Prices for so long when they were trying to argue the market was still affordable for locals and foreign buyers weren't a problem. Now their overstuffed commission cheques are threatened and they switch to using Average Price. Pathetic hypocrites.

[Caliplanner1]

Originally Posted by jhausner

Finally, the United States does have one of the, if not the most advanced and capable of medical systems on the planet. The fact that it isn't as affordable as other systems around the world, or that you largely need to be in a higher wealth bracket to enjoy the full benefits, doesn't take away from that fact. I wouldn't trade the Canadian medical system for any in the world right now quite honestly, but it isn't perfect and has a lot more holes that people will admit. And quite frankly most people that praise the Canadian medical system I honestly feel haven't used it truly. When you really need it, then you realize how much room for improvement there is. Just try getting an MRI for an injury that isn't an emergency then we'll see how amazing you think it is.

No doubt the Canadian medical system has shortcomings. For one thing it is constantly abused by clients who really should not be gaining such resource wasteful/costly ease of access (e.g. police arrested drunks and certain lower levels of arrested drug addicts who clog emergency rooms here in Vancouver to the chagrin of more seriously hurt patients). With that said,....the general level of medical expertise and technology available here in Canada is comparable to that of the states.

[renthefinn]

Originally Posted by Jebby

Coming to use the services? Let's see:

Public school? Nope, my brother and I did our entire schooling at private schools.


.

I hope you realize that most private schools are subsidized in Canada? 50-60% often, so I think that claiming no cost to Canada by going to private school is disingenuous at worst. You probably were not aware of the subsidy.

[red-paladin]

Guys please keep the thread on topic. There were pages on posts on healthcare and other topics. Any further off topic posts will be deleted.

[Jebby]

Originally Posted by renthefinn

I hope you realize that most private schools are subsidized in Canada? 50-60% often, so I think that claiming no cost to Canada by going to private school is disingenuous at worst. You probably were not aware of the subsidy.

Private schools in BC are eligible to receive 35% or 50% of the local district's per-student grant amount.

So if a public school spends $5,000 per student, private schools in the area can get $1,750 or $2,500 per student. Considering tuition fees at a school like St. George's are around $23,000 per year for BC residents, the subsidy isn't near the 50-60% subsidy you claim.

Considering that parents who send their children to private school are already paying into the public system through their property taxes, the grants make sense.

------------------

To get this on topic, rich Chinese investors who are shelling out millions to buy homes people claim they don't even live in are paying tens of thousands of dollars annually each to support the public school system while not using it.