Canadian Airport Thread II

[hehehe]

Originally Posted by zahav

YYC also improved (ie. declined less) than the previous months. But because of WS's dominance in domestic, you can somewhat infer the health of their routes by the overall numbers. AC had already axed most of their routes by last May, so don't think there'd be much measurable change in their domestic pax year over year. Flair has a decent showing, but again, not sure how much they changed year to year. So the declines could point to weakness at WS domestically.

I think Lynx's demise and significant Flair reductions might have caused YYC's flat/slight decline in domestic. It might point to WS weakness but this March/April/May their domestic capacity wasn't that much higher than the previous year I think.

But yeah it's great to see more P2P routes like YXE/YQR-MSP, YWG/YVR/YEG-ATL and YVR-DTW.

[Nicko999]

Originally Posted by YOWhopeful

How will you boycott YUL? Where will you fly from?

I did fly from YUL in April. No issues in the shoulder months, I am boycotting the summer months of June, July and August.
A couple of years ago, I did drive to Burlington (VT) and flew to JFK. From there you can fly anywhere in the US really. I was going to Florida then so it was convenient. Ticket was about 20% cheaper and parking fare at BTV was not unreasonable. Even with the 90 minutes drive, it was worth it. It's close to the time you will be waste trying to get to YUL anyway.

I would do it again if I needed to fly to the US in the warmer months. I am not even kidding, I wouldn't have to leave much earlier than if I was flying from YUL since you have at least an hour in traffic.

Originally Posted by zahav

You think ADM's decision to stick with YUL was wrong? It seems like the right decision to me, Mirabel was too damaged (reputation wise) at the time and YUL was closer to the city (a huge plus. And of course the transborder and domestic connections, with transborder especially proving to be a growth sector and hand in hand with international growth (ie. US pax to Europe via YUL). There is still room to expand, look at airports like Heathrow and Gatwick, and you can see how you can accomodate with limited resources (Heathrow is in a tight land base, but keeps increasing their capacity, Gatwick has over 40M pax with one runway ffs, YUL is able to accomodate (I don't know anything about ADMTL as an organization, so not commenting on their abilities to do it properly), but just that it was the right choice to keep YUL and grow it, and leave Mirabel until absolutely necessary. Hopefully they can smooth out the growing pains and handle the steady increases. It's a nice problem to have, too much demand. In a competitive world, most places biggest struggle is to grow and gain routes/carriers, if they can get that they will figure out the proper growth. Mirabel was the polar opposite, large facilities, newer, wide open space, but lacked the demand. I would much rather have the demand than the shiny empty terminal that cost a fortune and no one flies to...

It was the wrong decision and it is becoming more and more obvious by the day. YUL is growing now but the infrastructure surrounding it is not made for more than 25M passengers annually. Shoulder months are fine for now but as soon as the airport serves more than 2M passengers a month (July, August), it becomes absolute chaos with traffic.
Just because people preferred YUL over YMX at that time because of its proximity to the city does not mean it is the correct thing to do. Managers/operators are supposed to look at the long-term when making such decisions. Force the population to use YMX. Unpopular, yes but I like to say short-term pain for long-term gain. Ask those people TODAY if they will drive to Mirabel instead if they had the options. You will get much difference responses than 30 years ago.

What do you think will happen to YUL after a couple of chaotic summers? Montrealers will start to look for alternatives eventually and it will be reflected in the numbers. Dorval will plateau at about 30M in a few years and will stay there. YHU would not be a big enough terminal to relieve anything.
YMX could have had 30M passengers by now with plenty of room to grow and there wouldn't have been any need for YUL.
But when mistakes are made, you will be stuck with smallish airport with extremely limited capacity to grow. That is what incompetence leads to... it is what it is.

[TheGreatestX]

YEG May Stats

Domestic 512,740 (Year-to-date 2,018,376) 1.4% (Year-to-date -3.1%)
Transborder 77,536 (Year-to-date 375,854) 42.2% (Year-to-date 14.8%)
International 22,556 (Year-to-date 308,229) 2.0% (Year-to-date 19.4%)
FBO 58,252 (Year-to-date 266,470) 7.9% (Year-to-date 11.4%)
Total 671,084 (Year-to-date 2,968,929) 5.5% (Year-to-date 2.1%)

Huge transborder growth, fueled by WestJet

[Dominion301]

WS' AMEs who voted 97% in favour of going on strike have given their 72 hours strike notice. As a result, WS have started cancelling flights.

https://www.newswire.ca/news-release...877910293.html

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by Dominion301

WS' AMEs who voted 97% in favour of going on strike have given their 72 hours strike notice. As a result, WS have started cancelling flights.

https://www.newswire.ca/news-release...877910293.html

30 to 40% pay raise in the first year, and they voted no.

Hope they know what they are doing.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

30 to 40% pay raise in the first year, and they voted no.

Hope they know what they are doing.

It certainly gives an indication of why fares are rising and it ain't due to Lynx disappearing. I had heard Flair pilots also got a big bump up in pay to keep them. Does this leave AC in the unusual position of being the worst paying gig right now?

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

30 to 40% pay raise in the first year, and they voted no.

Hope they know what they are doing.

From what I understand, the main point of contention is they're severely understaffed and as WS add more tails this year, it's only exacerbating the situation.

[craner]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

30 to 40% pay raise in the first year, and they voted no.

Hope they know what they are doing.

Idiots.

[Djeffery]

Yep, the outsiders look at pay and think that solves everything else and call them idiots without bothering to see if there might be legit reasons for why they are going on strike.

[J81]

Originally Posted by craner

Idiots.

Thats rich! Calling an entire group of people idiots without knowing a single one or their issues. Maybe money isnt the problem. Maybe theyre happy with the raise but everything else in the contract is garbage. Working conditions and benefits are in fact important as well.

[Myst]

Location, location, location.

I can’t really see many wanting to resurrect YMX. I do favour concentrating on one airport, as YUL/YMX and YEG/YXD have shown why. But at some point a second airport becomes a good idea and complements as much as competes. YHU isn’t a bad idea. The fact it’s not run by ADM makes them not like it. If it was run by ADM I suspect they’d have a very different tune. I don’t know if it is better to have competing interests and competing plans, or one organization running both…

[Dominion301]

WS and the union agree to go back to the bargaining table averting a strike for now.

https://www.newswire.ca/news-release...896410177.html

With respect to WestJet's request for arbitration, the CIRB has advised it will require additional time and submissions from both parties before making a decision on whether or not collective bargaining for our first agreement should be resolved by way of arbitration.

In the meantime, the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association (AMFA) has rescinded its strike notice, with both parties jointly agreeing to return to the bargaining table to continue work towards finding a resolution.

[hehehe]

Originally Posted by Dominion301

WS and the union agree to go back to the bargaining table averting a strike for now.

https://www.newswire.ca/news-release...896410177.html

I guess the government's decision to delay making a decision on binding mediation forced WS to back off of their aggressive tough guy approach with the union and actually negotiate in good faith.

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by hehehe

I guess the government's decision to delay making a decision on binding mediation forced WS to back off of their aggressive tough guy approach with the union and actually negotiate in good faith.

They actually wanted to force/impose binding arbitration. Highly unlikely that the CIRB would/will ever approve that imposition without first having a union membership vote on that, especially with a near-unanimous NO vote.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory

YYC May 2024 Stats:

Domestic: 1,109,728 -0.3 (YTD 4,632,062 +1.14%)
Transborder: 301,102 +9.1% (YTD: 1,419,567 +11.95%)
International: 203,968 +20.7% (YTD: 1,015,957 +12.33%)

May 2024 Total: 1,614,798 +3.6%
2024 YTD: 7,067,586 +4.67%

YUL May 2024 stats:

Domestic: 590,024 -1.3%
Transborder: 452,904 +11.8%
International: 837,060 +13.3%

May Total: 1,879,988 +8.0%
2024 YTD: 8,588,860 +9.5%

https://www.admtl.com/sites/default/...Web_EN_Mai.pdf

Growth increased compared to April, which is a nice surpise. All signs were pointing to a continued decrease in growth rates.

[nname]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

YUL May 2024 stats:

Domestic: 590,024 -1.3%
Transborder: 452,904 +11.8%
International: 837,060 +13.3%

May Total: 1,879,988 +8.0%
2024 YTD: 8,588,860 +9.5%

https://www.admtl.com/sites/default/...Web_EN_Mai.pdf

Growth increased compared to April, which is a nice surpise. All signs were pointing to a continued decrease in growth rates.

Guess all major Canadian airports post similar stats for May

YVR May 2024

Domestic: 1,119,975 -1.2%
Transborder: 587,691 +23.4%
Asia Pacific: 309,346 +13.1%
Europe: 174,334 +22.9%
Misc Intl: 61,168 -4.6%

May Total: 2,252,514 +7.8%
2024 YTD: 10,282,887 +8.3%

https://www.yvr.ca/-/media/yvr/docum...fic-update.pdf

May total was a record for YVR, as well as the transborder and Europe sector (despite overall capacity loss for Europe compared to pre-pandemic). For domestic and misc intl, it was the 2nd highest (2023 was the highest). APAC was 4th (2017-19 were higher).

[Zmonkey]

Originally Posted by nname

Guess all major Canadian airports post similar stats for May

YVR May 2024

Domestic: 1,119,975 -1.2%
Transborder: 587,691 +23.4%
Asia Pacific: 309,346 +13.1%
Europe: 174,334 +22.9%
Misc Intl: 61,168 -4.6%

May Total: 2,252,514 +7.8%
2024 YTD: 10,282,887 +8.3%

https://www.yvr.ca/-/media/yvr/docum...fic-update.pdf

May total was a record for YVR, as well as the transborder and Europe sector (despite overall capacity loss for Europe compared to pre-pandemic). For domestic and misc intl, it was the 2nd highest (2023 was the highest). APAC was 4th (2017-19 were higher).

Has there been any reasons for why Domestic has been flat across the country this year? Business travel still down? Covid domestic bump over? Fares increasing? Loss of low cost competition without Lynx and Flair raising fares?

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Zmonkey

Has there been any reasons for why Domestic has been flat across the country this year? Business travel still down? Covid domestic bump over? Fares increasing? Loss of low cost competition without Lynx and Flair raising fares?

Some of it must be more direct flights. You can fly from Calgary to Seoul or Palm Springs rather than change in Vancouver.

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by Zmonkey

Has there been any reasons for why Domestic has been flat across the country this year? Business travel still down? Covid domestic bump over? Fares increasing? Loss of low cost competition without Lynx and Flair raising fares?

A lot of it is the loss of Lynx and the loss of Flair domestic flying. Airports with lots of PD flying additions (i.e., YOW, YHZ & YYZ) are fairing better. Case in point, here's YHZ for May:

Sector / May '19 / May '23 / May '24 / % Change vs 2023 / vs 2019
Dom 324,658 / 265,212 / 293,247 / +10.6% / (9.7%)
T.B. 25,211 / 10,750 / 12,171 / +13.2% / (51.7%)
Int'l 30,016 / 21,632 / 39,922 / +84.6% / +33.0%
TTL 379,885 / 297,594 / 345,340 / +16.0% / (9.1%)

YHZ's big May domestic jump bucks the trend. No surprise as PD's YHZ-YYT/YUL/YOW routes all got huge capacity increases switching to E95s from DH4s.

YHZ Year-to-Date
Sector / YTD 2019 / YTD 2023 / YTD 2024 / % Change vs 2023 / vs 2019
Dom 1,238,721 / 1,037,754 / 1,065,475 / +2.7% / (14.0%)
T.B. 149,962 / 84,063 / 96,017 / +14.2% / (36.0%)
Int'l 169,369 / 172,930 / 221,385 / +28.0% / +30.7%
TTL 1,558,052 / 1,294,747 / 1,382,877 / +6.8% / (11.2%)

[harls]

They are building a train line to the airport. Perhaps Nicko will survive.

He can also try out the shiny new St. Hubert too.