The 401

[MolsonExport]

^when I was a kid, we drove to eastern Ontario almost weekly (from Montreal), and I always remembered how the road would all of a sudden get very smooth (heading west) or bumpy (heading east) right at that place. And the overpasses more dated/decrepit.

Things are better now, but not by much. Same thing with the freeways in Gatineau and Ottawa.

[vid]

It's like that when you go into Manitoba from Ontario. As soon as you enter Western Canada, the highway splits into two separated traffic streams, a shoulder literally comes out of nowhere, the speed limit reaches something Ontario can only dream of, and oh, the tarmac! The glorious, smooth tarmac!

And then later you come back to Ontario and it's like "oh right, I live in this fuckin' place."

[Innsertnamehere]

In Ontario's defence they are twinning 17 to Kenora soon.. They are actually doing a lot of northern highway widenings.

[vid]

Yes, I was referring to now, not a decade from now.

[Innsertnamehere]

I'm fairly certain I remember reading that they will be 407a and 407b, the province wants to keep with the "407 toll road" theme, as te connectors will be tolled. (Silly IMO, only the mainline should if you ask me)

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

I'm fairly certain I remember reading that they will be 407a and 407b, the province wants to keep with the "407 toll road" theme, as te connectors will be tolled. (Silly IMO, only the mainline should if you ask me)

No risk of any confusion happening with that naming scheme.

[sonysnob]

I too have heard of using 407 suffixes for the Durham Links. In talking to some of my friends from MTO in the past, it sounded like there were some pretty bizarre numbering proposals being floated around when the new alignment of Highway 26 opened up in Wasaga a few years ago, so hopefully there isn't a lot of weight to using suffixes.

My personal choice for the East Durham Link would be the 446. Hwy 46 was a short highway in western Victoria County, north of Lake Scugog for a number of years, which is kind of in the general vicinity. It's an unlikely choice, but I like it. Using one of the neighbouring county roads would make sense too. There isn't a Hwy 57 anywhere in the province, so it's a free number for a 400-series highway.

I don't know anything about upgrading Hwy 35, but it would, if nothing else, make sense to upgrade the section between the future 407 and the 35/115 interchange to a full freeway once the tollway is extended.

[ScreamingViking]

I meant just upgrading the stretch that's co-signed. It's under 20km long, and once the 407 connects to it traffic volumes will likely increase, especially on the section between the 407 and the 35/115 split. Just a guess, but I'd think drivers on the 401 who want to access the 407 (and vice versa) would use of the new links so maybe the 401-407 stretch could wait, though it's not a very safe highway.

35 north of the split is quite hilly as I recall. I'm not sure there's enough traffic to warrant a divided highway to Lindsay, not for a long time anyway.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by sonysnob

I too have heard of using 407 suffixes for the Durham Links. In talking to some of my friends from MTO in the past, it sounded like there were some pretty bizarre numbering proposals being floated around when the new alignment of Highway 26 opened up in Wasaga a few years ago, so hopefully there isn't a lot of weight to using suffixes.

My personal choice for the East Durham Link would be the 446. Hwy 46 was a short highway in western Victoria County, north of Lake Scugog for a number of years, which is kind of in the general vicinity. It's an unlikely choice, but I like it. Using one of the neighbouring county roads would make sense too. There isn't a Hwy 57 anywhere in the province, so it's a free number for a 400-series highway.

I don't know anything about upgrading Hwy 35, but it would, if nothing else, make sense to upgrade the section between the future 407 and the 35/115 interchange to a full freeway once the tollway is extended.

I'm not a fan of highway numerical duplication, including suffixed routes. True, there is Highway 7A and Highway 7, but those have co-existed for so long that I doubt there's confusion between them. But for future designations there should be no duplication.

County/Regional Roads also cause some confusion, particularly for average drivers who don't notice the difference between the flowerpot shape and the crown or shield shapes. There may not be much point in making changes now, however.

[DrNest]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

I'm fairly certain I remember reading that they will be 407a and 407b, the province wants to keep with the "407 toll road" theme, as te connectors will be tolled. (Silly IMO, only the mainline should if you ask me)

I agree re the tolling. The connectors definitely shouldn't be tolled.
In my opinion, the 407 shouldn't be tolled, or at least not in the way it currently is. Something more like cash on the spot and easypass lanes would make more sense and encourage more people to actually use the 407. I know so many people that refuse to use it because of issues with the billing and the fact they charge an additional fee each month.

[Innsertnamehere]

^traffic levels have been dropping on 35 to Lindsay over the last few years, and its only around 7,000 PPHD IIRC.

I'm still of the opinion that MTO should replace all of the RIRO Highways in the province, I find them way too unsafe. (35 and 11)

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

I'm still of the opinion that MTO should replace all of the RIRO Highways in the province, I find them way too unsafe. (35 and 11)

Agreed.

I'm concerned that we'll see much of Highway 6 south of the 401 become one, especially once the planned bypass around Morriston and interchange at Highway 5 get built. It would be a cheaper way of "improving" the stretch of road between the two, but create the same issues that exist on 35/115 and parts of 11.

[eternallyme]

Both of the main RIRO highways (11 and 35/115) are too congested anyway for them to be of any use these days. Even if they are only replaced by a 4-lane freeway, it would be quite valuable, although 11 from Barrie to Orillia would need to be 6 lanes right away.

I think the next widenings need to be to the east of the GTA, particularly from Kingston to Cobourg. The first place to start could be through Belleville (although the fact that there are three interchanges in close proximity warrants a design change), and through Trenton (there are three interchanges not as close but traffic increases somewhat).

Through Belleville, there are two choices: an 8-lane cross section around the Highway 62 and 37 interchanges (to help with the weaving) or a 10-lane cross section with C-D roads (3+2 on each side) to serve the two interchanges. That requires new bridges on the Moira River but would isolate the weaving from the through traffic completely. Through Trenton, a normal 6-lane cross-section would be sufficient though.

After those are done, the gaps can be filled in for a continuous 6-lane corridor from Kingston to Cobourg (and 6+ lanes from at least west of London, perhaps Windsor, all the way to Kingston).

[sonysnob]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

Both of the main RIRO highways (11 and 35/115) are too congested anyway for them to be of any use these days. Even if they are only replaced by a 4-lane freeway, it would be quite valuable, although 11 from Barrie to Orillia would need to be 6 lanes right away.

I think the next widenings need to be to the east of the GTA, particularly from Kingston to Cobourg. The first place to start could be through Belleville (although the fact that there are three interchanges in close proximity warrants a design change), and through Trenton (there are three interchanges not as close but traffic increases somewhat).

Through Belleville, there are two choices: an 8-lane cross section around the Highway 62 and 37 interchanges (to help with the weaving) or a 10-lane cross section with C-D roads (3+2 on each side) to serve the two interchanges. That requires new bridges on the Moira River but would isolate the weaving from the through traffic completely. Through Trenton, a normal 6-lane cross-section would be sufficient though.

After those are done, the gaps can be filled in for a continuous 6-lane corridor from Kingston to Cobourg (and 6+ lanes from at least west of London, perhaps Windsor, all the way to Kingston).

I think that they will close the existing Hwy 37 interchange and punch a new alignment for Hwy 37 southerly from the Cannifton By-pass down to Hwy 2 along the eastern urbanized limits of Belleville.

Check out the old plan here:
http://belleville.ca/images/uploads/...Y_AUG_1990.pdf

[waterloowarrior]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

I think the next widenings need to be to the east of the GTA, particularly from Kingston to Cobourg. The first place to start could be through Belleville (although the fact that there are three interchanges in close proximity warrants a design change), and through Trenton (there are three interchanges not as close but traffic increases somewhat).

Through Belleville, there are two choices: an 8-lane cross section around the Highway 62 and 37 interchanges (to help with the weaving) or a 10-lane cross section with C-D roads (3+2 on each side) to serve the two interchanges. That requires new bridges on the Moira River but would isolate the weaving from the through traffic completely. Through Trenton, a normal 6-lane cross-section would be sufficient though.

After those are done, the gaps can be filled in for a continuous 6-lane corridor from Kingston to Cobourg (and 6+ lanes from at least west of London, perhaps Windsor, all the way to Kingston).

I wonder if instead you could keep it at 6 lanes but remove some of on and off ramps at the Hwy 62 cloverleaf interchange and replace it with a Parclo AB2 (ramps on west side of interchange)


source: http://www.mattigronroos.fi/Tiet/Liittymat.htm

FYI another interchange may be planned on the east side of Belleville for 2021-2026 (Transportation Master Plan - Jan 2014 open house http://www.belleville.ca/residents/p...on-master-plan)

[haljackey]

Project announced to extend the Mavis Road 401 overpass and add the two missing links to the 401/403/410 interchange: http://www.401expansion-mississauga....79%20FINAL.pdf

This will prepare the 401 for ultimate widening through Mississauga, whatever that means.

[Innsertnamehere]

It means that they plan to eventually bring the Express-Collectors system all the way to the 407. In a few years the Express Collectors system could run from the 407 all the way to (I think) Salem road, with the exception of that small stretch by the airport.

[Innsertnamehere]

The next big one will be to widen the 401 through Durham. Its severly underbuilt currently, and given the extreme growth that the Province has listed for Durham (its trying to build up durham to similar levels that Peel is at now) I don't see it getting any better. 6 lanes to Kingston would be nice as well.

[sonysnob]

Having Durham Region rival Peel Region in terms of population is something that I am not looking forward to seeing.

[Innsertnamehere]

Well it should go up to around 1,000,000 people compared to the existing 600,000. There will be almost 100,000 people living in Seaton alone. The 407 will take most of the brunt of that growth from my understanding though. (for comparison peel is currently at 1.3 million, so not quite peel levels, but still much much larger than it is today)