HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Ontario > Hamilton > Business, Politics & the Economy


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
     
     
  #1  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2012, 11:45 AM
Dr Awesomesauce's Avatar
Dr Awesomesauce Dr Awesomesauce is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: BEYOND THE OUTER RIM
Posts: 5,889
What's happening? Where am I? Where are my pants???

Typical response from council. Everything's a big, giant shock to them. When in doubt, defer having to make a decision until somebody makes it for you.

Useless tw*ts.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2012, 12:09 PM
thistleclub thistleclub is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,729
In the wrap-up on Wednesday's casino motion vote in Ottawa, a preview of the debate that will unfold today at Hamilton City Hall.

Ottawa city council's sure bet on Lansdowne Park followed by shameful gamble on casino
Councillors blast secretive OLG process, then vote for betting house anyway
(Ottawa Sun, Susan Sherring, Oct 10, 2012)

It was easy to believe that after years of inaction, the revitalization of Lansdowne Park might never happen.

You couldn’t be called a cynic for doubting anything good would happen with what looked like little more than a hideous large asphalt parking lot.

But on Wednesday, a historic vote.

Council agreed to revitalize the park, in the hope it will become a tourist destination and a gathering place for all of Ottawa.

The vote didn’t come easy. The last council bungled the process, hooking up with the Ottawa Sports and Entertainment Group without ever putting the project out to others who might be equally as interested.

Despite the drama, Ottawans can now look forward to both a beautiful park with unique stores and restaurants and the return of the Canadian Football League.

It should have been a great day for council.

But then, the debate turned to another mega-project in the form of a high-end casino.

In that brief moment, council quickly went downhill into a simply incredulous debate on giving the Ontario Lottery and Gaming Corp. the green light to choose a winning private operator and casino site.

Here’s a brief rundown:

The OLG has decided to close down slot parlours across the province hooked up with racetracks, including the popular slots at Rideau Carleton Raceway.

The OLG effectively subsidizes racetracks with a 20% cut of slots revenue. The province’s horse racing industry resents the word subsidy, but it is what it is.

So the OLG is going to communities like Ottawa, and asking if they’re interested in having a new casino in their municipality.

Problem is, that’s really all this council knows.

Here’s what they don’t know: Where the new casino will be located; how much money the city can expect to make; how large of a complex the OLG is considering; if there will be a hotel or entertainment centre attached to the casino; if the city really can change the OLG’s choice — and work solely on keeping the Rideau Carleton alive; or if the city could take more time to evaluate the situation.

All questions. No answers.

Even city manager Kent Kirkpatrick appeared uncharacteristically confused. Questioned by councillors, Kirkpatrick admited he didn’t know the answer. But maybe he could listen to the taped debate from last week’s committee meeting.

Mayor Jim Watson told council the city has veto power. That, unfortunately, is based on nothing but trust.

Seems Watson “trusts” the OLG to keep its word. Lovely, but not based on fact.

OLG president Rod Phillips refused to offer up a guarantee it wouldn’t fight the city’s decision when questioned by the media.

It seemed most councillors understood this was no way to make a major decision on the city’s future.

One after the next, councillors Mark Taylor, Rick Chiarelli, Diane Holmes, Rainer Bloess, Peter Clark expressed concern about the lack of information.

Taylor said it was like a business saying it wanted to set up shop, but not revealing its location or how much money it would generate for the city. As Taylor said, the city would never accept that.

Then, he voted in favour of it!

Chiarelli said the OLG was like a “smiling dealer asking the city to play” and then he, too, voted in favour of it.

Shameful.

Ottawa has no real power to stop the OLG if it chooses a site that fits in with the city’s official plan.

Trust them?

Clearly, most already don’t.

Yet for reasons that are inexplicable, with next to no information in front of them, this council has gambled away a big part of the city’s future.

From one big high in Lansdowne Park, to one big, huge low.




Ottawa city council votes 19-5 in favour of casino motion
Councillors divided on feelings toward gaming commission
(Ottawa Citizen, David Reevely, Oct 10, 2012)

Despite many councillors’ very vocal misgivings, city council decided Wednesday afternoon that Ottawa should have a new casino.

The 19-5 vote to tell the Ontario Lottery and Gaming Corp. to seek private-sector bids to build a new casino here was closer than the number suggests: many of the votes in favour of the idea came from councillors who warned the city staffers who’ll work with the OLG to treat the provincial agency and its plans with suspicion.

“I do not welcome you as a friendly partner,” said Bay Councillor Mark Taylor, addressing himself to the OLG. “I see you as an adversarial business interest.”

Several other councillors, such as Knoxdale-Merivale’s Keith Egli and Osgoode’s Doug Thompson picked up his language, though all three of them ended up voting the way the gambling agency wanted — along with Somerset’s Diane Holmes, who’s deeply concerned about gambling addiction and traffic problems, College’s Rick Chiarelli, who didn’t think he had enough information at hand to justify a vote either way, and Rideau-Rockcliffe’s Peter Clark, who doesn’t have much faith that gambling is a worthwhile industry.

“Let them go play in the sandbox,” Clark summarized. The OLG will come back with a specific proposal and maybe it’ll be worthwhile, though he doubts it will be.

The five councillors who actually voted against the motion were David Chernushenko (Capital), Diane Deans (Gloucester-Southgate), Mathieu Fleury (Rideau-Vanier), Scott Moffatt (Rideau-Goulbourn) and Tim Tierney (Beacon Hill-Cyrville).

Virtually all the critics were angry about the secrecy of the process for deciding where a new casino will go. After Wednesday’s vote, the OLG will seek bidders to come up with a shortlist, and then present city council with one proposal for what kind of casino a private operators wants to build and where. Formally, city council and the public will never see the shortlist of options, even though each of them is expected to include a specific location and plan.

Informally, however, in closed-door meetings, city officials will have a say. The city’s economic-development director Saad Bashir promised councillors that “staff will be thoroughly engaged with OLG,” which didn’t placate many of the politicians.

City manager Kent Kirkpatrick told councillors his staff have already had preliminary meetings with about five would-be casino operators — lobbyists from gambling interests across North America have registered on the city’s lobbying registry — and he himself has attended two or three of them. They’re interested in sites all over town, though Kirkpatrick said the dominant theme is sites inside the Greenbelt but outside the downtown core. The airport area is one of them, he said, in response to specific questioning by Deans, though he emphasized that everything is still very exploratory.

“I have no knowledge of any one of those consortiums having decided whether they’re going to respond to OLG’s call for proposals or what sites they might have in mind,” Kirkpatrick said.

As councillors pressed him, Kirkpatrick said he’ll speak to people at the OLG about revealing more information about the bidders before one finalist is presented, though after the vote Mayor Jim Watson dumped a bucket of cold water on the likelihood of that. Requests-for-proposals don’t work like that, he said, scorning the idea of having the various bidders compete for public approval.

“The RFP process, as you all know, they bring forward one proposal,” he said. “When we bring forward the RFP for light rail, we’re not bringing you a smorgasbord of candidates. We’re bringing one forward. The OLG will do the same. What councillors have asked for and what we’ll follow up on is whether is they’re willing to show us all of the bidders or what their proposals are. I don’t know if they would do that, because it’s not common practice in an RFP to have a contest among three or four.”

Councillors could reject the bid the gambling agency likes best, and then it’ll be up to the OLG whether it wants to present the city with its second choice or walk away, Watson said. But don’t expect to choose from a list of options, or any detailed public consultations beyond the standard City Hall committee and council meetings.

Although city treasurer Marian Simulik told councillors she expects a chance to negotiate a new deal with the OLG to divide up the proceeds from a new casino, the agency has said clearly it’ll only offer municipalities a share of the slot-machine take, likely something in the single-digit millions of dollars. The city received $4.4 million from the gambling at the Rideau Carleton Raceway last year; the agency recently offered “host cities” a slightly richer deal than that for existing slot machines and said those are the same terms it intends to apply to future casinos.

There’s virtually nothing the city can do to protect that gambling business at the raceway, Kirkpatrick and other officials made clear. The track and 1,200-machine slot operation there can bid to host the new casino, but the decision will be entirely in the OLG’s hands.

Moffatt, for one, is sure that this is the end of the raceway.

“It’s clear that Rideau Carleton Raceway isn’t their No. 1 priority,” Moffatt said, in the most impassioned council speech he’s ever given. “In fact, I don’t think it’s a priority for them at all.”

The zone where the OLG wants to put a casino extends just far enough south in Ottawa that the raceway operators get to bid, but it’s clear to him that the whole point of the OLG’s provincewide strategy is to close rural racetracks and open urban casinos.

“They have created the parameters to achieve what they want to achieve,” he said, by insisting city council ultimately take an all-or-nothing vote on one location, which he’s sure won’t be the raceway. The OLG plans to shut its slots there next March, and although there are negotiations underway to extend that deadline until a new casino opens somewhere, the writing is on the wall.

On the flip side, the mayor said he’s certain the agency would never try to force a casino into Ottawa against city council’s wishes.

From here, the process is supposed to move quickly. The city’s health and economic-development departments are to produce reports on how a casino could be expected to affect their work and present those at the same time as the OLG presents its chosen bidder to the city in the new year.

The chairman of the gambling agency’s board is Paul Godfrey, who is also the chief executive of Postmedia Network Inc., which owns the Citizen.
__________________
"Where architectural imagination is absent, the case is hopeless." - Louis Sullivan
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2012, 1:59 PM
SteelTown's Avatar
SteelTown SteelTown is offline
It's Hammer Time
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 20,304
I can't believe they are talking about where to put the casino. Forget about the location and just yea or nay a casino first. The RFP will determine the location. Jeeeeez.

Stadium debate 2.0.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #4  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2013, 5:38 PM
SteelTown's Avatar
SteelTown SteelTown is offline
It's Hammer Time
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 20,304
AH, no. Just council likes to create plenty of drama, I said this way back in Oct 1, 2012...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelTown View Post
I can't believe they are talking about where to put the casino. Forget about the location and just yea or nay a casino first. The RFP will determine the location. Jeeeeez.

Stadium debate 2.0.
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...0&postcount=70
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2013, 3:51 PM
realcity's Avatar
realcity realcity is offline
Bruatalism gets no respec
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Williamsville NY
Posts: 4,059
gambling is fun

Coalmine is forgetting that playing cards, roulette, dice and slots gambling for a chance to win money is fun for people. It's entertainment, just like a theatre or restaurant you get something for your money. Just because it is not considered entertainment for the anti casino crowd doesn't mean other people -- and most do -- find enjoyment and entertainment in a casino and are responsible with it.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #6  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2013, 6:25 PM
coalminecanary coalminecanary is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,421
Quote:
Originally Posted by realcity View Post
Coalmine is forgetting that playing cards, roulette, dice and slots gambling for a chance to win money is fun for people. It's entertainment, just like a theatre or restaurant you get something for your money. Just because it is not considered entertainment for the anti casino crowd doesn't mean other people -- and most do -- find enjoyment and entertainment in a casino and are responsible with it.
I'm not forgetting any of that. I know it's entertainment. I'm just not foolish enough to overlook the financial cost of putting a casino downtown. I'm not against casinos. (I am however against the OLG's plan to generate more gamblers and pay american companies to run them - because it's unsustainable).

I'm also smart enough to understand the overwhelming evidence that casinos do not generate economic activity nor do they rejuvenate downtown areas.

I am capable of comprehending studies that show that casinos are only economically feasible in tourist areas.

Those PR sales pitch photos you posted sure are pretty. The first one, of a concert, is already our reality as we have several concert venues that already attract top notch acts.

The second and third just represent the expensive, showy decor which would ultimately be paid for by the gambling losses of our own citizens.

I'm not against casinos. I'm against the terrible plan for a casino in downtown Hamilton.

If you like skyscrapers and urban development (which is presumably why you all post here), then I don't understand how you can possibly be in favour of a casino for our core. Say goodbye to the real development dreams because the downtown's about to get a lot less attractive to new residents and businesses.

Why don't we put this thing where we can reap the limited benefits without actively causing harm to the economy of the city?

If flamborough is a non-starter, why haven't we at least investigated any other location in the city? There are less damaging places we could be putting this thing. East Mountain is the first place that comes to mind.
__________________
no clever signoff.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2013, 6:30 PM
coalminecanary coalminecanary is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,421
Here's what a downtown casino reality would be...

Inside:

(source)

Outside:

(source)
__________________
no clever signoff.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #8  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2012, 4:57 PM
SteelTown's Avatar
SteelTown SteelTown is offline
It's Hammer Time
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 20,304
Casino Town Hall at City Hall at Oct 11th, 7 until 10pm.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #9  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2012, 1:56 AM
SteelTown's Avatar
SteelTown SteelTown is offline
It's Hammer Time
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 20,304
Bratina says possible sites for casinos are Confederation Park, West Harbour and Connaught hotel.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #10  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2012, 2:21 AM
mattgrande's Avatar
mattgrande mattgrande is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 1,245
Where/when did he say that?
__________________
Livin' At The Corner Of Dude And Catastrophe.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #11  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2012, 3:25 AM
SteelTown's Avatar
SteelTown SteelTown is offline
It's Hammer Time
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 20,304
At today's casino sub committee meeting.

Council also agreed to hold town hall meetings to better inform people. Once that's done a telephone poll will be collected. City staff will work on the question for the poll for council to approve.

Apparently since the downtown is already zoned for a casino it would be difficult for council to say no if the developers want it in the downtown area.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2012, 9:06 AM
matt602's Avatar
matt602 matt602 is offline
Hammer'd
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hamilton, ON
Posts: 4,800
Yes, lets turn our one vintage hotel into a casino. Wonderful idea.

If this has to go anywhere I'd like to to see it at Confederation Park. It would tie in with that whole entertainment thing going on there anyway.
__________________
"Above all, Hamilton must learn to think like a city, not a suburban hybrid where residents drive everywhere. What makes Hamilton interesting is the fact it's a city. The sprawl that surrounds it, which can be found all over North America, is running out of time."
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #13  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2012, 1:46 PM
thistleclub thistleclub is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,729
Ottawa has been entertaining a similar option, with a familiar site selection dynamic. Its council votes on the casino today.

Sherring: Don’t rush casino decisions
(Ottawa Sun, Susan Sherring, Oct 9, 2012)

At Wednesday’s council meeting, politicians are being asked to approve a proposal by the Ontario Lottery and Gaming Corporation (OLG) to allow proposals to go out and solicit interest from the private sector for a casino.

OLG will choose the winner.

And only then will the operator and the site be revealed to council for its approval and rezoning.

A majority of councillors polled by the Sun have confirmed their support for the process, with only three definitive nay votes.

“I remain a skeptic,” said Capital Coun. David Chernushenko, adding that unless “something really new comes up late in the game” he’s voting no.

“There’s no certainty where it would be. It’s too much of an unknown proposal. Unless they come up with a different process, we don’t know what we’re voting for.”

Chernushenko, along with Gloucester-Southgate Coun. Diane Deans and Rideau-Vanier Coun. Mathieu Fleury also plan on voting against the proposal.

Fleury has made it clear he doesn’t want a casino in the downtown - and understanding the process - accepts he has to vote against the proposal for fear it might end up in his ward.

“My worry is more about downtown councillors having an actual say about a potential site selection here. Although I will not be supporting the report, I continue to be supportive of the existing facility in the south of Ottawa,” he said.

The process has given him no choice but to vote against.

As such, he’s not going to gamble on the outcome.

Good on him.

“We haven’t heard from anyone or group in the ward who is in favour of having a casino. We’ve heard strong opposition from Byward BIA, as well as Action Sandy Hill and Lowertown Community Association and reservations from other groups,” Fleury said.

Rideau-Rockcliffe Coun. Peter Clark doesn’t want it in his ward either, but he’s willing to see where the process takes the city with a ‘yeah’ on the motion.

“Personally, I don’t think there’s any room in (the) downtown. My concern is if OLG thinks we have to tear down half of downtown,” he said, pointing out the Rideau Carleton Raceway gives the province more money than Lac Leamy gives to Quebec.

“Do they plan on tearing down half of the Rideau Centre? No. Now, maybe if they’re talking about tearing down the Parliament buildings, then maybe! If they want to go play in the sandbox, fine,” said Clark, tongue in cheek.

One of the strongest contenders among councillors remains the Rideau Carleton Raceway, which has enough land to expand, the proper zoning, a regular visitor base and the strong support of its ward councillor, Osgoode Coun. Doug Thompson....

A full-fledged casino could be a great thing for Ottawa.

But council needs to take its time, weigh its options and let OLG know that any major decision in Ottawa is council’s to make.


Downtown location unlikely for casino: Councillor
(Ottawa Sun, Susan Sherring, Oct 9, 2012)

A downtown casino seems unlikely as it would struggle to fit into the city’s official plan.

Alta Vista Coun. Peter Hume says a suburban location is more likely to work in Ottawa.

Hume, the chair of the city’s planning committee, spoke to the Sun about how the official plan would restrict where a casino could go. A downtown location appears unlikely.

There just aren’t many appropriate or available spots in the downtown core.

At present, the only place in the city that a casino could be compliant with the zoning bylaw is the Rideau Carleton Raceway.

“To establish a casino in another location, you would have to submit a rezoning application,” Hume explained, adding it would have to conform to something called Major Urban Facilities.

Some of the biggest policy requirements are being located by a rapid transit station and having direct access to an arterial road.

At present, the only downtown locations that would meet the test of the official plan would be the University of Ottawa or the Rideau Centre. Neither seems likely.

“What was very interesting in the OLG presentation was that they expect the private sector to put up the money for the facility. So I would expect that potential proponents are hunting for a site that could function as a larger destination with hotel, golf course, etc.

“As well, you need about 80,00-sq ft. for the gaming floor and another 1 1/2 times that for back-of-house operations, so you are looking at a 200,000 to 250,000-sq. ft. location.

“As a city, our downtown blocks are very small and would not lend themselves to this type of facility. In fact, the only site that could do the job would be on the west edge of downtown – parking lot and Glue (Pot) Pub building.

“I think the locations in the suburbs – while not the best from an urban design perspective - along the transitway present a much better opportunity to create the destination-type of facility that the private sector will ultimately want.

“To the crystal ball, (I am excluding sites that are in government ownership like Lebreton and only telling you about ones on the transitway) – moving from the west – Scotiabank Place, Brookstreet/Marshes Golf Course (on future transit), Bayshore, Glue Pot (Pub) site, Rideau Centre, CE Centre, St. Laurent, Gloucester Centre, Orléans Town Centre.

“I don’t know if all of those sites have a location, but they are on the transitway.”

Council votes on Wednesday whether to give the OLG the green light to proceed with bids for an Ottawa casino.
__________________
"Where architectural imagination is absent, the case is hopeless." - Louis Sullivan
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #14  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2012, 1:51 PM
SteelTown's Avatar
SteelTown SteelTown is offline
It's Hammer Time
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 20,304
Quote:
Originally Posted by thistleclub View Post
Sherring: Don’t rush casino decisions
(Ottawa Sun, Susan Sherring, Oct 9, 2012)

[COLOR="Navy"]At Wednesday’s council meeting, politicians are being asked to approve a proposal by the Ontario Lottery and Gaming Corporation (OLG) to allow proposals to go out and solicit interest from the private sector for a casino.

OLG will choose the winner.

And only then will the operator and the site be revealed to council for its approval and rezoning.

A majority of councillors polled by the Sun have confirmed their support for the process, with only three definitive nay votes.
Now why is our Council making a big fuss over this? Let OLG do the RFP process and after they've selected the winner than our Council can either yea or nay the entire deal.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #15  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2012, 2:27 PM
thistleclub thistleclub is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,729
FWIW, the Ottawa Citizen is hosting a liveblog of the Ottawa city council meeting.
__________________
"Where architectural imagination is absent, the case is hopeless." - Louis Sullivan
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #16  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2012, 5:38 PM
mattgrande's Avatar
mattgrande mattgrande is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 1,245
Quote:
Originally Posted by thistleclub View Post
FWIW, the Ottawa Citizen is hosting a liveblog of the Ottawa city council meeting.
From that link:

Quote:
Ottawa Mayor Jim Watson has already Tweeted he is in favour of a downtown casino.
You weren't kidding that there's some parallels to Hamilton...
__________________
Livin' At The Corner Of Dude And Catastrophe.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #17  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2012, 2:48 PM
thistleclub thistleclub is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,729
For perspective, Ottawa's new facility is a maximum of 2,000 slots, as well as other forms of gaming. Hamilton's would be 60% that size (eg. where they'd be looking at 80,000 sq ft of gaming floor, we'd possibly be looking at 48,000 sq ft of gaming floor, the equivalent of 3 floors of the Stelco Tower).

It also occurs to me that even if council signals interest in a casino, unless the winning proposal is Flamboro Downs, there will be a revenue lull. OLG's RFP selections won't be announced until Q1 2013, and the Slots at Racetracks program dies on March 31, 2013. The city will likely see a tax bump in the interim, casino or not.
__________________
"Where architectural imagination is absent, the case is hopeless." - Louis Sullivan
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #18  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2012, 3:52 PM
markbarbera markbarbera is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 3,050
Quote:
Originally Posted by thistleclub View Post
For perspective, Ottawa's new facility is a maximum of 2,000 slots, as well as other forms of gaming. Hamilton's would be 60% that size (eg. where they'd be looking at 80,000 sq ft of gaming floor, we'd possibly be looking at 48,000 sq ft of gaming floor, the equivalent of 3 floors of the Stelco Tower).

It also occurs to me that even if council signals interest in a casino, unless the winning proposal is Flamboro Downs, there will be a revenue lull. OLG's RFP selections won't be announced until Q1 2013, and the Slots at Racetracks program dies on March 31, 2013. The city will likely see a tax bump in the interim, casino or not.
Excellent point. I think OLG rep at last council meeting mentioned that they would consider a two-year extension on the existing lease at FD. That would allow for a site relocation without any interruption to the revenue stream.
__________________
"A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul"
-George Bernard Shaw
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #19  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2012, 4:37 PM
SteelTown's Avatar
SteelTown SteelTown is offline
It's Hammer Time
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 20,304
Yes OLG woll extend operations at Flamboro depending on the RFP process.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #20  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2012, 12:34 AM
flar's Avatar
flar flar is offline
..........
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Southwestern Ontario
Posts: 15,677
The greenbelt means it costs a fortune to provide infrastructure to farflung places like Kanata, Barrhaven, Orleans, Blackburn Hamlet, Greely, Bells Corners, Stittsville, Manotick and others. Unfortunately, these are the only places a lot of people can afford to live.
__________________
RECENT PHOTOS:
TORONTOSAN FRANCISCO ROCHESTER, NYHAMILTONGODERICH, ON WHEATLEY, ONCOBOURG, ONLAS VEGASLOS ANGELES
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Ontario > Hamilton > Business, Politics & the Economy
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 4:56 AM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.