Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[lio45]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

But what would his citizenship be? Would he remain Canadian? Would he become Québécois citizen and vote in the elections of an independent Québec?

It's clear that any Québécois would have the option of retaining Canadian citizenship if they want, at worst by having to temporarily relocate to the RoC.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lio45

It's clear that any Québécois would have the option of retaining Canadian citizenship if they want, at worst by having to temporarily relocate to the RoC.

I think this is true though no one in the ROC would ever admit it until it actually happens.

As for Justin Trudeau he wasn't born in Québec so he might not automatically qualify for Québec citizenship here unless he is living here when it happens.

I am sort of in the same boat (not born) in Québec though unlike him have lived here longer than anywhere else though if it happens I will almost certainly be in Québec at the time.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by lio45

It's clear that any Québécois would have the option of retaining Canadian citizenship if they want, at worst by having to temporarily relocate to the RoC.

That assumes that Quebec accepts dual nationality. They likely would, but it is not "clear".

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by lio45

It's clear that any Québécois would have the option of retaining Canadian citizenship if they want, at worst by having to temporarily relocate to the RoC.

I'm not so sure about that... If dual citizenship was allowed by an independent République québécoise, that would cause all sorts of problems to the independent Québec (tax evasion, passports, consular protection abroad). This would be even more so given that in the case of OUI victory, a vengeful ROC would probably be all too happy to extend Canadian citizenship to all inhabitants of Québec, and grant them all sorts of rights (consular protection abroad, etc) in order to make the independence of Québec hollow.

So my guess is the independent Québec would forbid dual citizenship, as many countries do (the US used to forbid dual citizenship, I haven't checked if they still do).

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I am sort of in the same boat (not born) in Québec though unlike him have lived here longer than anywhere else though if it happens I will almost certainly be in Québec at the time.

If historic precedents are to be used, Québec citizenship will probably be given to all those who had lived for a certain number of years (3 years? 5 years? 10 years? up to the new independent Québec to decide) in Québec at the time of the referendum, plus those born in Québec and currently living outside of Québec.

As for dual citizenship, like I've said, they might at first be ok with allowing it, but will soon realize it's just too impractical and creating all sorts of complications. So I doubt it would be allowed (except perhaps in very specific and limited cases, such as persons born of parents from different provinces, etc).

The new Code de la nationalité should be rather heavy and delight generations of lawyers and students.

[New Brisavoine]

Ah, internet has always the answer to everything!

Revue générale de droit

L’accession du Québec à la souveraineté et la nationalité

https://www.erudit.org/fr/revues/rgd.../1057024ar.pdf

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

So my guess is the independent Québec would forbid dual citizenship, as many countries do (the US used to forbid dual citizenship, I haven't checked if they still do).

The US has permitted dual citizenship for a long time now, especially for allied countries. Canada and Mexico have some of the highest concentrations of US dual citizens living on its soil.

[kwoldtimer]

Edit.

[Acajack]

I actually thought we were one of the worst performers when it came to murders of women.

https://twitter.com/EGougoux/status/...4x_SHU0WQ&s=19

(BTW if former mod JHikka was still here my recent posts would make his head explode.)

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by Acajack

(BTW if former mod JHikka was still here my recent posts would make his head explode.)

See....this is the sort of commentary that makes things tedious.

So, there's a poster who one found irritating that is no longer here. Fine, one can happily enjoy their absence. (There are several posters I'm quite happy to have seen find other hobbies) But - for reasons - shit gets dredged up that was happily left at the bottom of the lake, covered by sediment.

What value did this add? I have my opinion on why people do this sort of thing.

Anyway, good for Quebec.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by thewave46

See....this is the sort of commentary that makes things tedious.

So, there's a poster who one found irritating that is no longer here. Fine, one can happily enjoy their absence. (There are several posters I'm quite happy to have seen find other hobbies) But - for reasons - shit gets dredged up that was happily left at the bottom of the lake, covered by sediment.

What value did this add? I have my opinion on why people do this sort of thing.

Anyway, good for Quebec.

Sorry about that! Hopefully I am not among those you'd like to see go, in spite of my occasional dérapages!

[New Brisavoine]

^^I think the only real metric that will shut mouths among the Québec-bashing crowd will be when (and if) Québec's GDP per capita becomes higher than Canada's GDP per capita. I don't know whether we will ever see that day though.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I actually thought we were one of the worst performers when it came to murders of women.

https://twitter.com/EGougoux/status/...4x_SHU0WQ&s=19

If you dig into the data though they say that the rate of murder of women by their partners or family is the highest of any province in Quebec.

You can colour a map red and green but at the end of the day it's a relatively low murder rate in any province and the murder rate for women is lower than it is for men (but can be high for specific subgroups like sex workers). It would be nice if the murder rate were 0 but I find the way this issue is presented to be somewhat misleading and unhelpful. It's not really a "men vs. women" issue, it's a tiny number of murderers causing the murders. Sure, they happen to be male, but the vast majority of men are not murderers and the vast majority of Canadian women have a very low risk of being murdered. It would be more helpful to look into issues like why a small percentage of women are at high risk or why a small percentage of men become murderers; I think the culprits are likely poverty, drugs, and a justice system that often exposes the public to known criminals.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by someone123

If you dig into the data though they say that the rate of murder of women by their partners or family is the highest of any province in Quebec.

You can colour a map red and green but at the end of the day it's a relatively low murder rate in any province and the murder rate for women is lower than it is for men (but can be high for specific subgroups like sex workers). It would be nice if the murder rate were 0 but I find the way this issue is presented to be somewhat misleading and unhelpful. It's not really a "men vs. women" issue, it's a tiny number of murderers causing the murders. Sure, they happen to be male, but the vast majority of men are not murderers and the vast majority of Canadian women have a very low risk of being murdered.

So this confirms my suspicions about this particular issue in Quebec but all those women who died violent deaths are still dead. Regardless who killed them.

Assuming these are rates per 100,000, 2 per 100,000 is still high-ish, when you consider safe-ish cities have murder rates for everyone (including men, who make up the vast majority of victims) of 2 per 100,000 or even lower.

In theory one could argue there isn't much difference between a murder rate of 5-6 per 100,000, which tends to be the high end you find in Canada (in say Winnipeg) versus cities where it's 1 or 2.

Even 20 no, since we're talking about "per 100,000 people"?

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by someone123

If you dig into the data though they say that the rate of murder of women by their partners or family is the highest of any province in Quebec.

You can colour a map red and green but at the end of the day it's a relatively low murder rate in any province and the murder rate for women is lower than it is for men (but can be high for specific subgroups like sex workers). It would be nice if the murder rate were 0 but I find the way this issue is presented to be somewhat misleading and unhelpful. It's not really a "men vs. women" issue, it's a tiny number of murderers causing the murders. Sure, they happen to be male, but the vast majority of men are not murderers and the vast majority of Canadian women have a very low risk of being murdered. It would be more helpful to look into issues like why a small percentage of women are at high risk or why a small percentage of men become murderers; I think the culprits are likely poverty, drugs, and a justice system that often exposes the public to known criminals.

^^On that specific issue, this reminds me of the French travel documentary "J'irai dormi chez vous" by Antoine de Maximy (in a nutshell, he travels the world alone with some small cameras and tries to meet people and convince them to let him sleep overnight at their place).

The only place in the world where he really encountered some serious danger was... Québec! Some guy in the deep interior of Québec who tried to murder him if I remember correctly. As many French viewers, I left with the impression that the Québécois are a really strange bunch.

• Video Link

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

^^On that specific issue, this reminds me of the French travel documentary "J'irai dormi chez vous" by Antoine de Maximy (in a nutshell, he travels the world alone with some small cameras and tries to meet people and convince them to let him sleep overnight at their place).

The only place in the world where he really encountered some serious danger was... Québec! Some guy in the deep interior of Québec who tried to murder him if I remember correctly. As many French viewers, I left with the impression that the Québécois are a really strange bunch.

• Video Link

You made me curious so I looked up where that happened. It was in Inukjuak which is way way up north.

Just to give you an idea: from where I am sitting right now, Inukjuak is as far as Savannah, Georgia is.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

You made me curious so I looked up where that happened. It was in Inukjuak which is way way up north.

Was it? I thought it was a White Québécois guy closer to the St Lawrence River. But maybe I've forgotten since I watched it a long time ago.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Was it? I thought it was a White Québécois guy closer to the St Lawrence River. But maybe I've forgotten since I watched it a long time ago.

I've found two instances where he said it was in Inukjuak (spelling may vary) with an Inuit man who was high on drugs.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/In...ZzIw?entry=ttu

This is in the northern region of Quebec known as Nunavik which is semi-autonomous and populated mostly by Inuit people.

The region has about 15,000 people and is the same size as Spain.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

^^I think the only real metric that will shut mouths among the Québec-bashing crowd will be when (and if) Québec's GDP per capita becomes higher than Canada's GDP per capita. I don't know whether we will ever see that day though.

You're probably right though... Quebec has had pretty much the lowest unemployment rate in Canada most of the time for several years now, and it's not really related to extremely high(er) immigration in the ROC because it began before the latest waves of new people were a big phenomenon.

This had never happened before in the recorded history of employment statistics in Canada.

GDP per capita is another story of course, but in all honestly I never expected Quebec to have unemployment lower than the Canadian average one day, much less for it to be lower than every other province.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I've found two instances where he said it was in Inukjuak (spelling may vary) with an Inuit man who was high on drugs.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/In...ZzIw?entry=ttu

This is in the northern region of Quebec known as Nunavik which is semi-autonomous and populated mostly by Inuit people.

The region has about 15,000 people and is the same size as Spain.

Yeah, now that you say it, that may well have been an Inuit guy. That being said I found some of the rural Québécois in that show a bit odd...