Construction Sites In your City II

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by someone123

Here is a rendering of the Little Brooklyn project (named after an old ballpark that used to occupy the site) around the bridge area in Dartmouth:


https://www.littlebrooklyndartmouth.ca/

The tower to the far right is under construction.

If only the tower on the far right is finished, that would still be a landmark for Dartmouth - maybe even Halifax. Would it be the tallest building in HRM? It definitely helps that it has a classic skyscraper profile.

With all the Dartmouth stuff that's going up, Halifax will be the only city on the Atlantic coast other than NYC-Jersey City-Brooklyn to have 40+ storey towers on both sides of its harbour, so it'll make quite a grand entrance if you're visiting on a cruise ship.

[TorontoDrew]

I wish Ottawa, as our nation's capital, would do a little better with design. Right now, it looks like they are sharing developments with KW and London. They should be getting inspiration from QC, Mtl, or Van. I would say Toronto, but we all know of schizophrenic the design styles and qualities can be in this city.

[Harley613]

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew

I wish Ottawa, as our nation's capital, would do a little better with design. Right now, it looks like they are sharing developments with KW and London. They should be getting inspiration from QC, Mtl, or Van. I would say Toronto, but we all know of schizophrenic the design styles and qualities can be in this city.

They are doing a LOT better with design. Take a look at Claridge Hintonburg, Odenak, The Dale, Ascent, Releve, Marriott Renaissance, Soho Italia, Moxy Marriott. Many more great designs in the pipeline.

Also, the 2 billion dollar reclad of the current 2nd tallest in the metro (will be 4th tallest by the end of 2025), Les Terrasses de la Chaudiere.

[WhipperSnapper]

I couldn't care less about the bloated price tag. There is nothing to promote about the reclad happening in Quebec. It's just average. Worst still, the end result is two expansive complexes of towers will all look the same.

The whole Eastern Block look of Ottawa is fitting. The architecture shares many cues with standard "infill" (for lack of a better word) in Quebec however, for some reason it comes across as government developed housing than Griffintown. I guess its Ontario except that the oversized transit oriented skyscraper villages in the GTA (and mainly proposed at this point) don't look like socialized housing for the working class on the surface.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

If only the tower on the far right is finished, that would still be a landmark for Dartmouth - maybe even Halifax. Would it be the tallest building in HRM? It definitely helps that it has a classic skyscraper profile.

What has happened is that the city used to have 30 storey zoning, but then due to the housing accelerator fund they permitted 40 storeys in a few areas. There is some 40 storey zoned land on both the Halifax and Dartmouth sides and each side has I believe one project that's in some form of construction or site prep (Young and Windsor on the Halifax side). There are now lots of 30 storey zoned sites and it's becoming a pretty standard residential highrise height in the city.

The area below the Citadel is under various height limits that allow at most 80-90 m, and often much less.

With all the Dartmouth stuff that's going up, Halifax will be the only city on the Atlantic coast other than NYC-Jersey City-Brooklyn to have 40+ storey towers on both sides of its harbour, so it'll make quite a grand entrance if you're visiting on a cruise ship.

It's already kind of like this, but with 25-30 storey buildings right now. The most impressive views are from a boat or from higher vantage points in Dartmouth or Halifax were you can see the different areas. There are also some elevation differences. Richmond Yards is on a 60 m hill for example.

It's true that there's a huge difference with US Northeast cities as far as growth and the type of development that's happening. Halifax used to look a lot like Portland ME back in the 1950's but it's very different now.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by someone123

What has happened is that the city used to have 30 storey zoning, but then due to the housing accelerator fund they permitted 40 storeys in a few areas. There is some 40 storey zoned land on both the Halifax and Dartmouth sides and each side has I believe one project that's in some form of construction or site prep (Young and Windsor on the Halifax side). There are now lots of 30 storey zoned sites and it's becoming a pretty standard residential highrise height in the city.

The area below the Citadel is under various height limits that allow at most 80-90 m, and often much less.

Halifax's path sounds like Toronto's about 20 years ago, where builders sort of "organically" push the height limit based on the economics of feasibility and what they're able to get away with, so it's like a rising tide where 30 storeys is the new norm, then 40, then 50...

I don't think this is due to market demand or even land costs. The cost of land in downtown Toronto would have still been higher in 2005 than it is in Halifax in 2025, especially when you compare to places like Dartmouth or the north end of Halifax. But that's when Toronto developers started to plan and build towers the heights of which Halifax is building now. There are many cities where land is much more expensive than Halifax that don't build 40 storey towers, or even have developers propose 40 storey towers with the expectation that it'll be cut down in size.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

I don't think this is due to market demand or even land costs. The cost of land in downtown Toronto would have still been higher in 2005 than it is in Halifax in 2025, especially when you compare to places like Dartmouth or the north end of Halifax. But that's when Toronto developers started to plan and build towers the heights of which Halifax is building now. There are many cities where land is much more expensive than Halifax that don't build 40 storey towers, or even have developers propose 40 storey towers with the expectation that it'll be cut down in size.

There isn't really that much of a market in Halifax where developers buy and sell sites like this, and it's mostly rentals, not condos with pre-sales. Most of the builders own lots of properties and have a pipeline of projects planned. This system has the drawback of causing some prime sites to sit derelict for a long time.

For many years the city made it difficult to build so I think there is enormous pent-up demand for housing in some areas. Halifax also has pretty bad traffic and no rapid transit so there's a big difference between living in a more central area and living just a few km farther out.

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by someone123

Here is a rendering of the Little Brooklyn project (named after an old ballpark that used to occupy the site) around the bridge area in Dartmouth:


https://www.littlebrooklyndartmouth.ca/

The tower to the far right is under construction. The plain shapes meant to show massing are other developments. I'm curious about the one to the left of Metropolitan Place.

One could find many critiques of this development I'm sure but it's basically replacing a wasteland and it's right by a transit hub.

Thanks. Just sayin'. I've noticed projects listed as under construction on SSP Halifax with some preliminary demolition site prep. Also noticed complete projects talked about as under construction when only the first phase has started.

I'm a non conformist towards better than a parking lot or population density increase as they tend to be discussed when a project is architecturally unsatisfactory and an architecturally unsatisfactory tower typically is as unsaitsfactory in its community planning.

Most of Dartmouth towers projects leave a lot to be desired if height and skyline aren't at the forefront. In most cases, the 30 to 40 storey heights make them even worse than if they were 10 to 15 storeys. You can get away with mediocrity at a human scale better than with tall towers from an architectural and urban functionality perspective. instead a 20 storey block.

As for the above photo, architecturally, it is satisfactory however, the layout is not. There are actual grass areas but, they are all bisected by streets into useless small open spaces. That's not good enough for the expected population. The tall towers create the feel of towers in a park than urban walkability.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

As for the above photo, architecturally, it is satisfactory however, the layout is not. There are actual grass areas but, they are all bisected by streets into useless small open spaces. That's not good enough for the expected population. The tall towers create the feel of towers in a park than urban walkability.

I don't think a rendering like this shows the final landscaping design or even building stylings of future phases. It is showing heights and potential massing. The Dartmouth Common is one block away (bridge terminal also a block away, ferry about a 12 min walk) and not used much due to the existing population density being so low around there so I don't think they should worry too much about street-level greenspace.

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

Most of Dartmouth towers projects leave a lot to be desired if height and skyline aren't at the forefront.

It depends on the developer and project. I suspect this one will be mid-range and will be relatively affordable rentals. Given the housing crisis that exists, I'm not offended by these towers being 40 floors instead of 20.

The situation is also pretty different from Toronto. Many areas of metro Halifax have a low population density and relatively modest transit usage. There's lots of car traffic but shifting development closer in to the core helps with that and in some cases completely bypasses bottlenecks. Car-free living will probably be pretty common in these developments around the Macdonald bridge area in Dartmouth.

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by someone123

It depends on the developer and project. I suspect this one will be mid-range and will be relatively affordable rentals. Given the housing crisis that exists, I'm not offended by these towers being 40 floors instead of 20.

Don't confuse me with being anti-height. A 40 storey residential complex is exponentially easier to result in a mediocre warehouse than something more human scaled. I understand Toronto having to build complexes that tall but, I don't see Halifax building 40 storey tower complexes as a bold statement ignoring this being a forum with skyscrapers in its name.

Halifax has time. Too many units addressing affordability in Toronto's insatiable investor real estate market have been built for these overpriced, undersized units to remain the standard for years to come after common sense has put the housing crisis to rest.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

I understand Toronto having to build complexes that tall but, I don't see Halifax building 40 storey tower complexes as a bold statement ignoring this being a forum with skyscrapers in its name.

These are private developers building what they believe will be profitable. The usual argument is that smaller cities don't need tall towers but there's actually very little prime developable land in Halifax due to the mix of transportation bottlenecks, geography, heritage areas, etc. etc. It makes a lot of sense to put density around key locations like this one and Young/Robie on the other side. If there are solvable design challenges to improve these higher density complexes I would rather see those implemented and the construction move forward. In principle, the municipality's planning process handles this.

Halifax has time.

It is easy to compare to Toronto and take away the message that Halifax is relatively affordable, but in reality many locals have already seen their rents explode to a level they never would have been able to predict and plan for. It is very important to quickly get a large supply of rental units onto the market, and adding more floors to construction projects that are already happening is an effective way to do this. For somebody who, say, works in an industrial park in Burnside or works at the naval base, affordable rentals in these locations are a huge benefit.

[jc_yyc_ca]

I didn't look too closely at first, I thought this was for Van or Toronto. Quite a major project!

Originally Posted by someone123

Here is a rendering of the Little Brooklyn project (named after an old ballpark that used to occupy the site) around the bridge area in Dartmouth:


https://www.littlebrooklyndartmouth.ca/

The tower to the far right is under construction. The plain shapes meant to show massing are other developments. I'm curious about the one to the left of Metropolitan Place.

One could find many critiques of this development I'm sure but it's basically replacing a wasteland and it's right by a transit hub.

[LeftCoaster]

^ Looks fantastic!

[Harley613]

Odenak in Ottawa. Tower 1 will be the second tallest in the metro at 124m and 36 floors. You can also see the new Adisoke Central Library under construction to the right of the site, and to the right of the library you can see the kangaroo crane working on the second floor of the new third tallest in the Metro, the 118m 36 story Renaissance Marriott.



Edit: Another Angle

[someone123]

One thing about Halifax being mostly rentals (apparently around 10k apartments under construction at this moment and only hundreds of condos) is that the pre-construction marketing is limited compared to condos and they don't put the same effort into the materials. Early renderings often look little like the completed project or sometimes there are no renderings at all. This development in Dartmouth is not being directly "marketed" right now to people who might rent it in 2029.

The municipality isn't very particular on aesthetics most of the time so unless you have something like a registered heritage building you probably won't have very specific design requirements. They do care about servicing, densities, and height limits.

The quality of development has generally been going up over the past 20 years and in general the final products are a bit nicer than the last round of construction and whatever early materials are available.

[davidivivid]

SWL tower under construction on Boulevard Laurier in Quebec City. On the left, the ugly, ugly... ugly Cominar tower.

[Maldive]

U of T: Schwartz Reisman Innovation Centre (Phase 2) | ?m | 20s | U of T | Weiss/Manfredi l site demo complete

Demolition and site prep complete for the larger Phase 2.


Rivenbourn

The taller Phase 2 is on the left.


UT

UT

Phase 1 on the left with earlier demolition in progress for Phase 2, near the bottom on the right.


Rivenbourn


Cielo Condos | 120.5m | 34s | Collecdev-Markee | KPMB l u/c


Rascacielo

Rascacielo

UT

rdaner

enter username

UT


AGO: Dani Reiss Modern and Contemporary Gallery | 48.35m | 6s | AGO | Selldorf l u/c


rdaner

UT


Park Road | 97.43m | 28s | Capital Developments | Diamond Schmitt l u/c


Guac

MJS


The Stella | 98.5m | 30s | Tricon | Henriquez Partners l u/c


Kodiak

UT

[LeftCoaster]

Great updates Maldive, thanks!

[GeneralLea]

Forma, the first phase of Frank Gehry's twin tower projct in downtown Toronto, taken yesterday afternoon:
Forma Rising by Josh Kennington Photographics, on Flickr

[SteelTown]

Television City's construction is now at ground level Woohoo!






Source: Canuck905 @ https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/thread....27567/page-18