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  #401  
Old Posted Aug 31, 2023, 3:52 PM
PaperSun PaperSun is offline
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Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere View Post
https://pub-hamilton.escribemeetings...umentId=376523

Tax increment grant up at council. Emblem asking for a $5.6 million tax break.

The development will take this plot of land from an assessed value of $4.3 million to $223 million, a 5100% increase.

The city is expected to receive $2.3 million in annual property taxes from the development. The grant would waive taxes on the first year, 75% on the second year, 50% third year, and 25% in the fourth year, for a total of $5.6 million.
I am not familiar with this kind of stuff, why should council approve this grant?
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  #402  
Old Posted Aug 31, 2023, 4:13 PM
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I am not familiar with this kind of stuff, why should council approve this grant?
Council has a grant program like this set up in downtown and other areas to try to encourage redevelopment and investment in the areas. It isn't like the city is even giving the developer money, just delaying when they begin to collect the increased property taxes from the development after it is completed. The idea is the grants make it easier for developers to build projects in the downtown and encourages development downtown instead of in greenfield areas.

Basically, the property currently pays around $95k annually in property taxes. After the development is completed, it'll pay around $2.5 million.

Instead of collecting the $2.5 million from the first year onwards, the city won't collect the increase the first year, will collect 25% of the increase the second year, 50% the third year, 75% the fourth year, and the full amount the 5th year onwards.

It made a lot of sense when Hamilton was desperate for any development in the lower city. Increasingly I would say that it's not really necessary in the downtown any longer given the amount of investment we are seeing. I wouldn't be opposed to removing it for the downtown, to be honest, but it should probably stay for areas which still aren't seeing much investment like the east end of the city.
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  #403  
Old Posted Aug 31, 2023, 4:24 PM
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The city should phase out the tax increment grant for the downtown area over the next five years. Instead, the tax increment grant should go to places like Barton Street BIA, Concession Street BIA, etc.

The residential downtown loan program was literally a program where the city would give developers funds to build condos/rentals. That program ended, as it's not needed anymore. However, I would like to see this loan program return to places like the Barton Street BIA.

We complain a lot about the lack of housing, yet we probably have hundreds of abandoned units along Barton Street.
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  #404  
Old Posted Aug 31, 2023, 4:42 PM
TheRitsman TheRitsman is offline
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I actually think the grant program should remain and be increased for areas of difficulty like Barton, Ottawa, and Concession. It costs us very little, and bring increased tax revenue for as long as the city will continue to exist. It's a smart program and it encourages further housing which is something we desperately need.

It will "cost" $5.6m in total, but the property will bring $240,000,000 in tax revenue over the next 100 years. And if we assume the city will be around until 3023, it will bring the city $2,400,000,000 over the next thousand years. It's in the city's best interest to spur dense development whether in a slump or not because the city isn't keeping up with it's maintenance costs, and to improve that balance in a sustainable way we need dense residential development, commercial development and industrial development. A good way to get that it to literally pay for it to be incentivized.
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  #405  
Old Posted Aug 31, 2023, 5:04 PM
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Originally Posted by TheRitsman View Post
I actually think the grant program should remain and be increased for areas of difficulty like Barton, Ottawa, and Concession. It costs us very little, and bring increased tax revenue for as long as the city will continue to exist. It's a smart program and it encourages further housing which is something we desperately need.

It will "cost" $5.6m in total, but the property will bring $240,000,000 in tax revenue over the next 100 years. And if we assume the city will be around until 3023, it will bring the city $2,400,000,000 over the next thousand years. It's in the city's best interest to spur dense development whether in a slump or not because the city isn't keeping up with it's maintenance costs, and to improve that balance in a sustainable way we need dense residential development, commercial development and industrial development. A good way to get that it to literally pay for it to be incentivized.
perhaps - but at a certian point it starts being a giveaway to developers without really being needed to achieve it's goals.

It also has to be balanced with Hamilton's major problems with a poor tax base. Hamilton right now has a very below-average tax base compared to the costs it has to incur because of poor assessment values on properties in the lower city and a lack of a strong commercial tax base, which is why taxes are so high while services are relatively poor. Developments like this one will go a long way to improving this ($2.5 million is equivalent to 0.25% of the entire property tax base of the city in this project alone), and foregoing that revenue just compounds the issue.

It's a delicate balancing act of trying to encourage the creation of a stronger tax base and actually collecting on that tax base. Before, and maybe even still today, the tax break was needed to make projects work. Increasingly though, I wonder if the time is coming downtown where it's really not needed any more.

Unrelated, but I think a lot of people in the lower city are in for a shock whenever MPAC finally gets around to performing a reassessment. Lower city property values have skyrocketed (even more than elsewhere) since 2016, and I think reassessment will really help with Hamilton's tax base a lot as those properties will see much higher assessment values (and therefor taxes) following reassessment. This house in Stoney Creek, sold for $675,000, pays $3,900 a year, while this house in the north end, sold for $683,000, pays $2,628. And the lower city is supposed to have a higher mill rate, too! Basically, the north end property is underassessed by over 30%.

Last edited by Innsertnamehere; Aug 31, 2023 at 5:16 PM.
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  #406  
Old Posted Aug 31, 2023, 5:19 PM
PaperSun PaperSun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere View Post
Council has a grant program like this set up in downtown and other areas to try to encourage redevelopment and investment in the areas. It isn't like the city is even giving the developer money, just delaying when they begin to collect the increased property taxes from the development after it is completed. The idea is the grants make it easier for developers to build projects in the downtown and encourages development downtown instead of in greenfield areas.

Basically, the property currently pays around $95k annually in property taxes. After the development is completed, it'll pay around $2.5 million.

Instead of collecting the $2.5 million from the first year onwards, the city won't collect the increase the first year, will collect 25% of the increase the second year, 50% the third year, 75% the fourth year, and the full amount the 5th year onwards.

It made a lot of sense when Hamilton was desperate for any development in the lower city. Increasingly I would say that it's not really necessary in the downtown any longer given the amount of investment we are seeing. I wouldn't be opposed to removing it for the downtown, to be honest, but it should probably stay for areas which still aren't seeing much investment like the east end of the city.
Thanks for the explanation I appreciate it!
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  #407  
Old Posted Sep 1, 2023, 2:54 PM
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Looks like another permit was issued not long ago, I imagine this is why Emblem held that ground breaking event last week.

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  #408  
Old Posted Sep 1, 2023, 6:56 PM
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is it just me or does that say " to construct a 31 storey building"
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  #409  
Old Posted Sep 1, 2023, 9:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere View Post
perhaps - but at a certian point it starts being a giveaway to developers without really being needed to achieve it's goals.

It also has to be balanced with Hamilton's major problems with a poor tax base. Hamilton right now has a very below-average tax base compared to the costs it has to incur because of poor assessment values on properties in the lower city and a lack of a strong commercial tax base, which is why taxes are so high while services are relatively poor. Developments like this one will go a long way to improving this ($2.5 million is equivalent to 0.25% of the entire property tax base of the city in this project alone), and foregoing that revenue just compounds the issue.

It's a delicate balancing act of trying to encourage the creation of a stronger tax base and actually collecting on that tax base. Before, and maybe even still today, the tax break was needed to make projects work. Increasingly though, I wonder if the time is coming downtown where it's really not needed any more.

Unrelated, but I think a lot of people in the lower city are in for a shock whenever MPAC finally gets around to performing a reassessment. Lower city property values have skyrocketed (even more than elsewhere) since 2016, and I think reassessment will really help with Hamilton's tax base a lot as those properties will see much higher assessment values (and therefor taxes) following reassessment. This house in Stoney Creek, sold for $675,000, pays $3,900 a year, while this house in the north end, sold for $683,000, pays $2,628. And the lower city is supposed to have a higher mill rate, too! Basically, the north end property is underassessed by over 30%.
Don't think that the good times are always gonna roll...
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  #410  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2023, 4:03 PM
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TheHonestMaple TheHonestMaple is offline
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Taken today. You can see the footprint starting to form. Things should get moving quite quickly now.

















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  #411  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2023, 7:53 PM
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Awesome photos, thanks for sharing! This one is such a beast!
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  #412  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2023, 12:59 AM
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Very nice photos thank you
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  #413  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2023, 10:18 PM
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Sorry no pictures but crane started to go up today.
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  #414  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2023, 11:20 PM
TheRitsman TheRitsman is offline
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Really excited to see this get started. This will take a long time to finish but even with the tower rising it will look insane from James St N and surrounding areas will really cement the transition of Hamilton from parking lots to a community.
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  #415  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2023, 11:49 PM
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From what I understand phase 1 and 2 towers will be under construction simultaneously. Then the third tower will start after those two are done.
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  #416  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2023, 6:15 AM
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Originally Posted by TheHonestMaple View Post
From what I understand phase 1 and 2 towers will be under construction simultaneously. Then the third tower will start after those two are done.
I'm not so sure. It looks like they're starting with Phase 3 according to what wa sold and what the pictures above show. If the crane base is for phase 3, then I can imagine all three being built simultaneously. Since phase 1 & 2 are "sold out".
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  #417  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2023, 12:35 PM
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The podium levels of all 3 towers are integrated and cannot be constructed separately. They will at a very least build the podium of all 3 towers - whether they proceed to build the tower of the third tower will likely depend on its sales status once construction gets to that point. I imagine all 3 will go up at once.
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  #418  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2023, 4:20 PM
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TheHonestMaple TheHonestMaple is offline
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I can confirm, a crane is up! Also looks like they've made significant progress on the foundation. Things should really start moving here now.
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  #419  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2023, 1:00 AM
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  #420  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2023, 5:36 PM
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Taken today.















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