Houston - Downtown Tunnel System

[urbanactivist]

wow this thread still exists??

As was said before, Houston's tunnels aren't really the problem... having retail in the tunnels is the problem. Some more downtown retail is slowly and quietly starting to open up.

Dallas OTOH has a fairly good scape of retail infrastructure there, but (like stranger said) no one is brave enough to stay open for evening hours. Also, it's tough because each new development in downtown Dallas is in the "middle of nowhere" without the incorporation of retail. This has been the case for both Main Street Gardens and the Dallas Performing Arts District. Both exciting new entertainment venues, but built miles apart and with no retail to connect them to other areas.

[shakman]

Originally Posted by northbay420

tunnels are only cool when u put trains in them...

or when they connect trains stations

You should take a trip to Montreal. You will be amazed.

I knew Houston had a tunnel system, but I had no idea it looked that good.

[Dan Denson]

Originally Posted by stranger

I live in downtown Dallas and work in downtown Dallas - I love the tunnels for about 6 months out of the year. When it's raining or 105 degrees, they make perfect sense. Some claim that the tunnels kill street-level businesses, but how can this be true when the tunnels close down at 5pm? There is no street-level business past then anyway- no reason to even keep the tunnels open.

Are you sure the tunnels close at 5 p.m.? What happens to the people who get off work at 5:00 p.m. Also, a lot of people that I visit on business in downtown Dallas don't leave work until after 6:00. The tunnels are closed to all of these people?

[Big Tex]

I remember going to the underground shops in Houston in the summer of 1996 and it was a nice escape from the humidity. I'm sure a lot has changed since then. I didn't know Big D had underground shops. When I lived in Dallas, I always liked going to West End Marketplace and was disappointed when it closed down.

[Metro Matt]

Originally Posted by Big Tex

I remember going to the underground shops in Houston in the summer of 1996 and it was a nice escape from the humidity. I'm sure a lot has changed since then. I didn't know Big D had underground shops. When I lived in Dallas, I always liked going to West End Marketplace and was disappointed when it closed down.

DT Dallas' underground isn't nearly as extensive as Houston's

[llamaorama]

Are you sure the tunnels close at 5 p.m.? What happens to the people who get off work at 5:00 p.m. Also, a lot of people that I visit on business in downtown Dallas don't leave work until after 6:00. The tunnels are closed to all of these people?

I'm not sure what the hours of the tunnels themselves are but the shops inside do close at the end of business hours or even after lunch.

[OhioGuy]

I don't think people realize how horrible the heat & humidity feels for about 5 months each year. It's never ending. You do not get a break. When you step outside, you'll often be drenched in sweat within a matter of minutes. I lived in Houston for 2.5 years and the weather was one of the biggest factors in driving me away. People argue that the tunnels kill street activity, but street activity would be limited regardless of the tunnels due to the weather issues. Air conditioning allowed southern areas of the country to explode in population, so is it really that much of a surprise that it continues to be of utmost importance?

[Dan Denson]

Originally Posted by OhioGuy

I don't think people realize how horrible the heat & humidity feels for about 5 months each year. It's never ending. You do not get a break. When you step outside, you'll often be drenched in sweat within a matter of minutes. I lived in Houston for 2.5 years and the weather was one of the biggest factors in driving me away. People argue that the tunnels kill street activity, but street activity would be limited regardless of the tunnels due to the weather issues. Air conditioning allowed southern areas of the country to explode in population, so is it really that much of a surprise that it continues to be of utmost importance?

Yeah, mid May through about mid October can be pretty brutal. It's interesting, though, how the hot/humid subject rarely seems to come up with other southern cities, even though it's just as bad, or worse. In Orlando, for example, the heat and humidity start earlier and last longer. New Orleans, of course, has the same issue. Any southern city has the same heat and humidity issue, but for some reason Houston gets the bad rap for it.

Interestingly, Houstonians and visitors this winter have been complaining because it's been too cold (at least up until this week, which has been pretty warm).

Hope you'll go back some day...I'm still looking forward to moving back, but until some personal circumstances change, it won't be happening.

[stranger]

Originally Posted by northbay420

wait, businesses in dallas shut down at 5 pm? cmon, the BOOKSTORES in downtown santa rosa are open past 8. thats pretty sad.

I'm only speaking of downtown Dallas. And the only bookstore downtown is the Lifeway Christian Bookstore (which closes at 4 or 5)...

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by TexasPlaya

Houston is hot, humid, and can have very heavy rain falls, I would imagine in a place where people are wearing business attire that being inside with AC is a high priority. I can't think of any reason besides weather of building things.

Originally Posted by VivaLFuego

Yes, the weather.

And 7 months out of the year of good weather means 5 months of getting to work or returning from lunch drenched in sweat. That's enough to matter.

Originally Posted by Reverberation

Try getting caught in a summer thunderstorm and getting hailed on. I would love more street life but those things have been clutch in the past when I'm in a suit and don't want to get soaked or cooked.

Originally Posted by stranger

I live in downtown Dallas and work in downtown Dallas - I love the tunnels for about 6 months out of the year. When it's raining or 105 degrees, they make perfect sense.

Dealing with the weather outside is part of life... in a hot climate or in a frigid one. Maybe I'm weird, but I prefer the concrete beneath my feet and the sights, sounds, smells, and interactions of the downtown world whether it's hot and humid, pouring, freezing, snowing, or wet and slushy, etc. I avoid these goofy downtown shopping mall tunnel systems.

[stranger]

Originally Posted by pj3000

Dealing with the weather outside is part of life... in a hot climate or in a frigid one. Maybe I'm weird, but I prefer the concrete beneath my feet and the sights, sounds, smells, and interactions of the downtown world whether it's hot and humid, pouring, freezing, snowing, or wet and slushy, etc. I avoid these goofy downtown shopping mall tunnel systems.

Dealing with weather is a part of life, but so is dealing with sweat when you get into the office. In this sense, they are a convenience.

[JManc]

the tunnel system compliments the businesses on the street level, not compete with it. it's mainly geared towards office workers moving to and from work and the various parking areas and office buildings downtown. houston is hot and humid as f&%$ for 5 months out of the year and not arriving at your desk all sweaty is kinda nice if you can avoid it.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by stranger

Dealing with weather is a part of life, but so is dealing with sweat when you get into the office. In this sense, they are a convenience.

Originally Posted by JMancuso

houston is hot and humid as f&%$ for 5 months out of the year and not arriving at your desk all sweaty is kinda nice if you can avoid it.

Yeah, I understand and can appreciate that having lived in Houston myself. A lot of big cities are hot and humid for good portions of the year... all Florida cities, New Orleans. And believe me, the east coast in the summer is no picnic... try New York (especially Manhattan when its 96 and you're surrounded by endless concrete, metal, people, and exhaust - hot as a hair-dryer in your face like Bono says), Philly, Baltimore, DC in the summer. People make it without tunnels and survive, and remain much more connected to the outside environment. But, I realize that it's just an accepted fact of life in Dallas and Houston. People I worked with in both cities often never went outdoors other than going between their cars and houses... they parked in the garage, went into the tunnel or skywalk, went into their building, went to the tunnels for lunch, went back through the tunnels/skywalk to their cars, drove back home. I despise that soft, artificial lifestyle, but that's just me. To each his or her own. But seemingly little things like this do have an overall effect on a city's downtown environment.

[Dan Denson]

Originally Posted by pj3000

Yeah, I understand and can appreciate that having lived in Houston myself. A lot of big cities are hot and humid for good portions of the year... all Florida cities, New Orleans. And believe me, the east coast in the summer is no picnic... try New York (especially Manhattan when its 96 and you're surrounded by endless concrete, metal, people, and exhaust - hot as a hair-dryer in your face like Bono says), Philly, Baltimore, DC in the summer. People make it without tunnels and survive, and remain much more connected to the outside environment. But, I realize that it's just an accepted fact of life in Dallas and Houston. People I worked with in both cities often never went outdoors other than going between their cars and houses... they parked in the garage, went into the tunnel or skywalk, went into their building, went to the tunnels for lunch, went back through the tunnels/skywalk to their cars, drove back home. I despise that soft, artificial lifestyle, but that's just me. To each his or her own. But seemingly little things like this do have an overall effect on a city's downtown environment.

Sounds like it really bothers you, but it's not really worth getting that bent out of shape about someone else's tunnel system.

[VivaLFuego]

Originally Posted by pj3000

Dealing with the weather outside is part of life... in a hot climate or in a frigid one.

Except that in a frigid climate, one can always add more clothing. There is nothing one can do in the heat/humidity other than sit there and sweat profusely.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by VivaLFuego

Except that in a frigid climate, one can always add more clothing. There is nothing one can do in the heat/humidity other than sit there and sweat profusely.

Most people complain too.

[diablo234]

Originally Posted by pj3000

Yeah, I understand and can appreciate that having lived in Houston myself. A lot of big cities are hot and humid for good portions of the year... all Florida cities, New Orleans. And believe me, the east coast in the summer is no picnic... try New York (especially Manhattan when its 96 and you're surrounded by endless concrete, metal, people, and exhaust - hot as a hair-dryer in your face like Bono says), Philly, Baltimore, DC in the summer. People make it without tunnels and survive, and remain much more connected to the outside environment. But, I realize that it's just an accepted fact of life in Dallas and Houston. People I worked with in both cities often never went outdoors other than going between their cars and houses... they parked in the garage, went into the tunnel or skywalk, went into their building, went to the tunnels for lunch, went back through the tunnels/skywalk to their cars, drove back home. I despise that soft, artificial lifestyle, but that's just me. To each his or her own. But seemingly little things like this do have an overall effect on a city's downtown environment.

Well Toronto and Montreal in addition to Minneapolis has underground walkways or in Minneapolis case an elevated walkway yet it does not prevent street life from occuring. Those cities are also affected by cold weather in addition to being muggy around the summer so weather is not a factor in preventing street life from occuring in those places.

Houston is the way it is because most of the growth is designed around cars and is spread out, causing a culture that is centered around driving. It will change once more residential buildngs appear downtown.

[VivaLFuego]

Originally Posted by pj3000

Most people complain too.

No, point being the only way to accomodate the heat/humidity is to not go out in it. In the cold, at least down to about 0F or 10F, one can just dress appropriately and be comfortable outside.

People complaining about the cold is one of my pet peeves, because it's laziness. Complaining about the heat? Well, no use complaining about something you can't control, I guess, but it's not like there's anything I can do in a Texas summer to not get drenched in sweat and dehydrated... other than simply never going outside.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by VivaLFuego

No, point being the only way to accomodate the heat/humidity is to not go out in it. In the cold, at least down to about 0F or 10F, one can just dress appropriately and be comfortable outside.

People complaining about the cold is one of my pet peeves, because it's laziness. Complaining about the heat? Well, no use complaining about something you can't control, I guess, but it's not like there's anything I can do in a Texas summer to not get drenched in sweat and dehydrated... other than simply never going outside.

Right, I understand... there's nothing one can do about it in other southern cities either, but they seem to get along fine, albeit sweaty. You pretty much summed up what I just said a few posts back about never going outside.

[urbanactivist]

I'm hoping to get a camera again soon (my previous one was stolen ) and I'd like to do series on Houston's tunnels outside of downtown. The Med Center, UofH and TSU all have pretty decent pedestrian tunnel networks... they're just not used or discussed like the ones in downtown. One of UofH's student centers is acutally a part of its tunnel system.