CHICAGO: ORD & MDW discussion

[N830MH]

Wait it second!! Where did you hear that?? When British Airways is moving to T3?? They don’t have enough room for another airline at entire T3. I thought they stayed at T5. This is only for international flights, not domestic flights.

[kbud]

Originally Posted by N830MH

Wait it second!! Where did you hear that?? When British Airways is moving to T3?? They don’t have enough room for another airline at entire T3. I thought they stayed at T5. This is only for international flights, not domestic flights.

It’s from BA: https://www.ba-groups.com/latest-new...rld%20partners.

[r18tdi]

Bloomberg News: O’Hare Revamp Turns Contentious After Going Billions Over Budget

Design tweaks are under review to get project back on track

...
The city’s options include using cheaper materials and tweaking the design of the project, said people familiar with the matter.
...
At stake is the biggest part of O’Hare’s revamp: two satellite concourses and a glittering new Global Terminal designed by star architect Jeanne Gang that will bring domestic and international flights under one roof, facilitating passenger connections.
...
Options under discussion include tweaking parts of Gang’s Global Terminal and the two satellite concourses, which are being designed by Skidmore Owings & Merrill, said people familiar with the matter. Changes to the order in which the various parts of the project will be built are on the table, while the city is also considering the use of cheaper materials, the people said.

[twister244]

I'm usually not a big fan of backroom pork barrel spending through the Fed, but in this instance, just shell out a couple billion and get the damn thing done.

This isn't some vanity project for a random district in a backwater state, it's a major international airport that needs the upgrade to sustain air traffic in the country. Given how much money is being thrown around at other various parts of the budget, I say just end this already.

I understand the airlines are being difficult, but they are paying higher fees. We are at a point now where we have no excuse to delay the commencement of the satellites given everything else is done now (runways, T5, etc).

[Kngkyle]

The ORD21 website has a new schematic... looks like part of the existing T2 might be staying... or at least it has the same shape as the existing T2.



https://ord21.com/home/Pages/default.aspx

[r18tdi]

Originally Posted by twister244

I'm usually not a big fan of backroom pork barrel spending through the Fed, but in this instance, just shell out a couple billion and get the damn thing done.

This isn't some vanity project for a random district in a backwater state, it's a major international airport that needs the upgrade to sustain air traffic in the country. Given how much money is being thrown around at other various parts of the budget, I say just end this already.

I understand the airlines are being difficult, but they are paying higher fees. We are at a point now where we have no excuse to delay the commencement of the satellites given everything else is done now (runways, T5, etc).

Agreed. If the feds can drop nearly $2B on a Red Line extension that will serve a relatively small populace, they should be able to fund vital upgrades to one of the nation's largest and most important air travel hubs.

Originally Posted by Kngkyle

The ORD21 website has a new schematic... looks like part of the existing T2 might be staying... or at least it has the same shape as the existing T2.

https://ord21.com/home/Pages/default.aspx

I think that's an old schematic with generic terminal placeholders. Here's a story from 2019 with a similar image that came from the ORD21 site.

[Kngkyle]

Originally Posted by r18tdi

I think that's an old schematic with generic terminal placeholders. Here's a story from 2019 with a similar image that came from the ORD21 site.

I don't find that to look anything like what I posted. Also:

ORD21 website as of March 6th, 2024:




ORD21 website as of March 12th, 2024 (and today):

[twister244]

Very interesting Crain's article on the ongoing saga that is the O'Hare Modernization Program.....

https://www.chicagobusiness.com/greg...eg-hinz-column

Under what the carriers now are pushing, only one of the two satellites would go up. The second would be indefinitely postponed — unless Rhee pulled a Houdini act and found a way to build all three for the original $6.1 billion cost, in 2018 dollars.

Also of interesting note....

I’d also like to know the truth of rumors that Team Johnson waved off U.S. Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg when he offered to mediate. Multiple reliable sources say that’s true. Johnson’s people deny it. Buttigieg’s spokeswoman didn’t return a call seeking comment.

[N830MH]

Just build it already! Do it immediately!! Let’s move forward on the project and get it done soon as possible.

[LouisVanDerWright]

I’d also like to know the truth of rumors that Team Johnson waved off U.S. Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg when he offered to mediate. Multiple reliable sources say that’s true. Johnson’s people deny it. Buttigieg’s spokeswoman didn’t return a call seeking comment.

This mayor is a menace. Maybe it's time to advance LaShawn Fords Mayoral recall bill.

[nomarandlee]

https://www.chicagotribune.com/2024/...rport-rebuild/


city proposes key change to o’hare airport rebuild, after months of negotiations with airlines

by sarah freishtat | sfreishtat@chicagotribune.com | chicago tribune and jake sheridan | jsheridan@chicagotribune.com | chicago tribune
april 5, 2024

after months of negotiations with airlines over the massive rebuild of o’hare international airport, city officials are proposing moving forward with a key change.

In a letter to airlines this week, the city proposed changing the sequencing of construction on a new global terminal and nearby satellite concourses, opting to “accelerate the completion of the global terminal,” that is set to replace aging terminal 2, city chief operating officer john roberson said. Initially, the plan was to build two satellite concourses first, which would have added gate space for airlines to use while terminal 2 was torn down and replaced with the global terminal......

The city would not provide a copy of the letter sent to the airlines this week, but roberson said under thelatest proposal, the full project agreed upon in 2018, including both satellites, will be built...

..
..

[twister244]

Huh..... Interesting.

I was assuming they were going to pitch building just the first satellite, then a full OGT build-out with the stipulation that funding for S2 could be built at a later date.

Building out new satellites is trivial at this point given the land is there, and a ton of utility work was done on the airfield over the last couple of years.

If the city wants to push ahead with the original OGT first, and the airlines are down with it, then I would be more than happy to see that happen myself.

[twister244]

Looks like the Tribune didn't clarify exactly what is being negotiated. Sounds like the airlines want S1 with OGT first before any additional expansion.

https://www.chicagobusiness.com/airl...-ohare-airport

The airlines have been wanting to build the so-called global terminal replacement for Terminal 2 sooner rather than later. The city’s original proposal was to build two satellite concourses before completing the global terminal, which connects terminals 1 and 3. The airlines wanted to build the global terminal before the second satellite.

Meanwhile, Durbin is pushing hard to get the feds involved to help broker a deal where the original buildout is executed (S1 + S2 + OGT).

https://www.chicagobusiness.com/airl...hare-expansion

All parties urgently need the expert mediation that only the U.S. Department of Transportation (USDOT) can provide to ensure a deal that is both fair and beneficial to local taxpayers and all passengers who fly through O’Hare.

[Steely Dan]

Dick Durbin is a professional.

Brandon Johnson....................

[Chicagoguy]

ITA Airways Launches New Airbus A330neo Service Between Chicago O'Hare And Rome–Fiumicino

“Italian flag carrier ITA Airways opened its newest international route, a nonstop connection between the airline's fortress hub at Rome's Fiumicino Airport (FCO) and Chicago O'Hare International Airport (ORD) on Sunday. The inaugural flight departed at around 15:00 in the afternoon from Chicago and is set to touch down shortly after 07:00 on Monday in Rome.

The aircraft operating this new transatlantic service is the Airbus A330-900neo, among the most modern in ITA Airways' fleet.”

https://simpleflying.com/ita-airways...ervice-launch/

[nomarandlee]

Originally Posted by Chicagoguy

ITA Airways Launches New Airbus A330neo Service Between Chicago O'Hare And Rome–Fiumicino

“Italian flag carrier ITA Airways opened its newest international route, a nonstop connection between the airline's fortress hub at Rome's Fiumicino Airport (FCO) and Chicago O'Hare International Airport (ORD) on Sunday. The inaugural flight departed at around 15:00 in the afternoon from Chicago and is set to touch down shortly after 07:00 on Monday in Rome.

The aircraft operating this new transatlantic service is the Airbus A330-900neo, among the most modern in ITA Airways' fleet.”

https://simpleflying.com/ita-airways...ervice-launch/

The industry's coolest livery (Ita) is now a regular at the airport. Good to see an Italian flagship at O'Hare after the long debacle of Alitalia has finally gone past.

[twister244]

Things continue to move towards:

S1 + OGT

S2 after

https://www.chicagobusiness.com/airl...erms-they-want

Unfortunately, unless there's a hidden pot of money somewhere we don't yet know about, this thing is going to see some VE:

But, he said, the city has to look at “every aspect of this program, including the design,” in an effort to deliver the entire project on budget. Roberson did not delve into what would specifically be cut, but said “there have to be some trade-offs” between design and functionality.

[kbud]

I just saw the list of the busiest airport in the world by passengers from 2023. O'hare was 9th with 73M people. Up until the latter part of the 90s, ORD was the busiest airport in the world. This is important as this is one of the major drivers of the local economy. I know someone will point out that ORD is at the top or near the top for total airport movements. This only means that ORD has more regional jet flights than other hubs around the world. In fact American's hub at ORD has well over 1/2 of their flights on regional planes. ORD for American by far has the highest % of regional jets for any US hub. Passengers help drive the economy, not the total # of flights.

The City and the State most come together with the airlines to figure this out, not only how to fund this but to plan for the future beyond this vision that is taking forever to materialize. If they don't figure this out, ORD will continue to slide.

2023 = 9th at 73M
2018 = 6th at 83M
2015 = 4th at 77M
2010 = 3rd at 66M
2000 = 2nd at 72M
1994 = 1st at 66M

[twister244]

Originally Posted by kbud

I just saw the list of the busiest airport in the world by passengers from 2023. O'hare was 9th with 73M people. Up until the latter part of the 90s, ORD was the busiest airport in the world. This is important as this is one of the major drivers of the local economy. I know someone will point out that ORD is at the top or near the top for total airport movements. This only means that ORD has more regional jet flights than other hubs around the world. In fact American's hub at ORD has well over 1/2 of their flights on regional planes. ORD for American by far has the highest % of regional jets for any US hub. Passengers help drive the economy, not the total # of flights.

The City and the State most come together with the airlines to figure this out, not only how to fund this but to plan for the future beyond this vision that is taking forever to materialize. If they don't figure this out, ORD will continue to slide.

2023 = 9th at 73M
2018 = 6th at 83M
2015 = 4th at 77M
2010 = 3rd at 66M
2000 = 2nd at 72M
1994 = 1st at 66M

Might be why they are pushing so hard to get S1+OGT off the ground. If I had to guess, UA sees several routes they want to up-gauge for their regional routes they have, but they simply cannot right now due to the current nature of the terminals.

It would be super interesting to pull the numbers from a regional route in terms of passengers, then see if that route can be replicated with less frequency with a larger jet. Instead of two or three small jets to OKC a day, have one 737....errr...... A321Neo to accommodate the same volume.

[ih8spires]

Don't forget, cargo flights are aircraft movements that do not add to passenger totals. That is why I think movements are the most important number.