CHICAGO | General Discussions

[LouisVanDerWright]

^^^ Asphalt is a lot cheaper than concrete, particularly if you aren't going with curbs and just doing the European "paved pseudo ditch running to the storm sewer" instead. I for one am a huge fan of Chicago's sidewalks, I just wish they would have trashed less of the old slate slabs they used to use in many parts of the city. Can you imagine what Chicago would look like if the entire city had slate sidewalks and cobblestone streets?

Also, I might be a libertarian, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to call one when I see one. Capital in the wake of WWII abused the federal government in extremely nefarious ways and it did a lot of damage to our society that was entirely avoidable. Can you imagine US cities today if we had planned the way Europe developed after the war? We'd have huge districts of historic Chicago still remaining that were just bulldozed because we got really good at leveling cities after a few years of practicing on Europe and Japan. Simply put, it was not possible to level entire quadrants of cities prior to WWII. We developed the technology of mass mechanization during the war and then simply bent those swords into plowshares after the war. Suddenly US industrial capital is capable of producing massive fleets of tracked construction vehicles and can level Little Italy in a weekend. Of course we start using those tracked vehicles to make roadways for our massive wheeled logistics vehicles. Oh and we just so happened to use those capabilities to isolate the American worker in the suburbs where they can't form any pesky unions.

[Baronvonellis]

Europe built expressways through their cites as much as the US did.

There's a trenched expressway just like the Kennedy that goes right through central Munich a half mile from the Octoberfest grounds.
Paris has the Peripherique a very busy and crowded trenched expressway that goes around central Paris through very urban neighborhoods, blocks from the Arc de Triomphe.
Oslo has an expressway going right through their downtown. They buried it in a tunnel thanks to their oil money so it's not as disruptive now.

Not as many people have to rely on them for commuting and driving though, due to their excellent transit systems and that their downtowns were already really dense and had a good workforce in the central area. Chicago is catching up with building up density and population in the central area which is great now!

If you want to talk conspiracy theories, how about why does the US still pay 23% of NATOs budget to protect Europe. And most European countries are paying in less than their agreed 2% of GDP commitment to NATO? We have been financing a big chunk of their defense spending for 70 years while they have been building their high speed rails systems, transit and making pretty cities.
If we reduced our NATO spending to the same percentage as Germany we'd have an extra $400 Billion per year to build out a high speed rail network!

[moorhosj]

Originally Posted by Baronvonellis

If we reduced our NATO spending to the same percentage as Germany we'd have an extra $400 Billion per year to build out a high speed rail network!

More likely it would go to our own military spending, or highways, or to fund another tax cut.

[bnk]

Anthony Bourdain's last letter to Chicago



https://medium.com/parts-unknown/the...s-7a7a8817ee18

May 1, 2016·4 min read





Anthony Bourdain



THE CHORUS

I spend a lot of my life — maybe even most of my life these days — in hotels. And it can be a grim and dispiriting feeling, waking up, at first unsure of where you are, what language they’re speaking outside. The room looks much the same as other rooms. TV. Coffee maker on the desk. Complimentary fruit basket rotting on the table. The familiar suitcase.

All too often, particularly in America, I’ll walk to the window and draw back the curtains, looking to remind myself where I might be-and it doesn’t help at all. The featureless, anonymous skyline that greets me is much the same as the previous city’s and the city before that.

This is not a problem in Chicago.

You wake up in Chicago, pull back the curtain and you KNOW where you are. You could be nowhere else. You are in a big, brash, muscular, broad shouldered motherfuckin’ city. A metropolis, completely non-neurotic, ever-moving, big hearted but cold blooded machine with millions of moving parts — a beast that will, if disrespected or not taken seriously, roll over you without remorse.

It is, also, as I like to point out frequently, one of America’s last great NO BULLSHIT zones. Pomposity, pretentiousness, putting on airs of any kind, douchery and lack of a sense of humor will not get you far in Chicago. It is a trait shared with Glasgow — another city I love with a similar working class ethos and history.

But those looking for a “Chicago Show” on this week’s PARTS UNKNOWN will likely be disappointed. There are no Italian beef scenes, no hot dogs, no Chicago blues, and there sure as shit ain’t no deep dish pizza. We’ve done all those things — on those other shows. And we might well do them again someday.

I like Chicago. So, any excuse to come back, for me, is a good one. It’s not a “fair” show, it’s not comprehensive, it’s not the “best” of the city, or what you need to know or any of those things. If you’re gonna cry that I “missed” an iconic feature of Chicago life — or that there are better Italian restaurants than Topo Gigio, then you missed the point and can move right on over to Travel Channel where somebody is pretending to like deep dish pizza right now.

Painting by Bruce Cameron Elliot / Source: brucecameronelliott.com

This is a show that grew out of my interest and affection for the Ale House in Chicago’s Old Town, and its proprietor, Bruce Cameron Elliot.
Ever since reading on the Twitter feed of the late great Roger Ebert that he read Bruce’s blog “ Geriatric Genius” every day, I have followed it faithfully. In fact, I went back years, tracking previous entries. It is in total, a breathtaking work, encompassing the daily lives (and deaths) and misadventures


...

Paintings by Bruce Cameron Elliot / Source: brucecameronelliott.com


I urge you to visit his blog. And to go back and start a few years back.

There is something about the Ale House — its willingness to accept all who stagger in its doors (though there is, famously a NO SHOT list), it’s morbid sense of humor, it’s never ending flow of opinions, well formed and not, its willingness to scrap — that serves for me, as a happy metaphor for a city I love.



...





Further reading

https://chicago.eater.com/2018/6/8/1...ver-part-known


Anthony Bourdain’s Most Memorable Chicago Quotes

The late chef, author, and TV host held a fondness for the city

by Ashok Selvam Jun 8, 2018, 10:40am CDT

...

While Bourdain held conflicted feelings about Chicago deep dish, he admitted that the city’s hot dogs were superior to New York’s, as Chicago serves “the finest hot dog on the planet. There, I said it, and I meant it. Now fuck off.”

...

[ardecila]

Well, that's my point about the asphalt sidewalks... they're not cheap at all. I mean, they're not slapdash. They are chock-full of manicured street trees, tasteful benches, bike racks, and other street furniture.

I think the asphalt is just easier to maintain with tree roots and things, and easier to patch for utility cuts. The downsides to asphalt roads (potholes forming, heat deformation, etc) don't happen when you only have a bunch of pedestrians walking on the surface. Here in Chicago, asphalt paths in parks last for decades with minimal maintenance... the only drawback is that the edges will unravel unless you use metal edging.

As for post-WW2, I just don't buy a story where the public is the "victim" of suburbanization. The American Dream wasn't cooked up on Madison Avenue and it certainly wasn't an evil corporate plot. We chose it ourselves, decades before WW2. Mass suburbanization was already happening in the 1920s. Today we just call it the Bungalow Belt, or when it's further out in places like Wilmette or Arlington Heights, we drool over its tree-lined streets. The industrial approach to homebuilding after the war was just gasoline poured on a fire that had been smoldering during 20 years of depression and war.

I mean, the typical American city after WW2 was dysfunctional in a lot of ways. No maintenance or investment during depression and war, so roads were crumbling, parks were overgrown, transit systems were creaky. There was major pollution, buildings were literally jam-packed with coal dust and soil was inundated with leaded gasoline... and that's if you didn't live next to a factory or chemical plant. Old-school streetcar systems were hopelessly screwed by traffic jams and accidents they couldn't go around. If you were a typical racist white person, you had a major influx of African-Americans working wartime jobs and moving into your neighborhood to add to your list of grievances. The factors pushing (white) city-dwellers into the suburbs back then were just ridiculous.

[left of center]

^ Its the Old Town Ale House on Wells that Bourdain enjoyed visiting and befriended the proprietor.

[left of center]

^ Bummer, wonder why?

[10023]

Originally Posted by Jibba

I'm not looking at it from the standpoint of how it represents Chicago's civic value, either as a market or a level of standards, though I understand those concerns. Any sheathing would be bulky and applied heavy-handedly; the relative delicateness of the slab edges, as compared to the piers, would be lost. Nouvel's "MoMa tower", for example, looks like a plastic toy, and there are seams all over the place. The visible architectonic quality of the structure is greatly diminished, if not completely absent, and a flat, lifeless representation of it, in the form of the cladding, is all that's there.

While I agree that "painted concrete" can be evocative of things cheaply finished, it's going to create crisply delineated bays covered in glass, which the broader piers will outline and group. I think the final effect is going to look great.

I’m not trying to read more into it either. Just aesthetics. I think River North has become a shockingly ugly neighborhood over the past 20 years (and one where I wouldn’t live), due to the infestation of both painted concrete and parking podiums.

[kolchak]

Originally Posted by 10023

I’m not trying to read more into it either. Just aesthetics. I think River North has become a shockingly ugly neighborhood over the past 20 years (and one where I wouldn’t live), due to the infestation of both painted concrete and parking podiums.

Look I understand that the athstetic in Chicago doesnt't appeal to you but your broad ranging critics seem out of place and a tad troll-e in the individual building threads.

[10023]

Originally Posted by kolchak

Look I understand that the athstetic in Chicago doesnt't appeal to you but your broad ranging critics seem out of place and a tad troll-e in the individual building threads.

It’s just this contemporary aesthetic that’s the problem. Chicago is a great architectural city and where I grew up, so it’s a shame.

[Ricochet48]

Originally Posted by 10023

I’m not trying to read more into it either. Just aesthetics. I think River North has become a shockingly ugly neighborhood over the past 20 years (and one where I wouldn’t live), due to the infestation of both painted concrete and parking podiums.

Wow, so architecturally elitist that you wouldn't live in arguably the social epicenter of the second largest metro in the US...

I live there and can walk a couple blocks south to the riverwalk for stunning views or north to the cathedral district. Are all of the newer buildings lookers, NO; however, they were built economically and costs prohibited more 'attractive' features. Those newer ones that have such elements/ sophisticated designs tend to be much more $$$ (e.g. OBP, Vista, Aqua, etc.).

For a city with a top 10 global GDP, our real estate is still very cheap even in the hottest area (Grand Red stop is the high $/sqft). Honestly curious what small speck of the states (or world) would satisfy you if River North, walking distance from incredible examples, is not even livable.

[LouisVanDerWright]

Originally Posted by Ricochet48

Wow, so architecturally elitist that you wouldn't live in arguably the social epicenter of the second largest metro in the US...

I live there and can walk a couple blocks south to the riverwalk for stunning views or north to the cathedral district. Are all of the newer buildings lookers, NO; however, they were built economically and costs prohibited more 'attractive' features. Those newer ones that have such elements/ sophisticated designs tend to be much more $$$ (e.g. OBP, Vista, Aqua, etc.).

For a city with a top 10 global GDP, our real estate is still very cheap even in the hottest area (Grand Red stop is the high $/sqft). Honestly curious what small speck of the states (or world) would satisfy you if River North, walking distance from incredible examples, is not even livable.

His points aren't even valid, the closest analogue to this tower is 432 Park which is for billionaires only and still made of concrete. But of course poured in place concrete doesn't exist in NYC...

[Notyrview]

Originally Posted by Ricochet48

Wow, so architecturally elitist that you wouldn't live in arguably the social epicenter of the second largest metro in the US...

I live there and can walk a couple blocks south to the riverwalk for stunning views or north to the cathedral district. Are all of the newer buildings lookers, NO; however, they were built economically and costs prohibited more 'attractive' features. Those newer ones that have such elements/ sophisticated designs tend to be much more $$$ (e.g. OBP, Vista, Aqua, etc.).

For a city with a top 10 global GDP, our real estate is still very cheap even in the hottest area (Grand Red stop is the high $/sqft). Honestly curious what small speck of the states (or world) would satisfy you if River North, walking distance from incredible examples, is not even livable.

I wouldn't live in River North either but mostly because it's so square. I agree that it's pretty ugly.

[10023]

Originally Posted by Ricochet48

Wow, so architecturally elitist that you wouldn't live in arguably the social epicenter of the second largest metro in the US...

I live there and can walk a couple blocks south to the riverwalk for stunning views or north to the cathedral district. Are all of the newer buildings lookers, NO; however, they were built economically and costs prohibited more 'attractive' features. Those newer ones that have such elements/ sophisticated designs tend to be much more $$$ (e.g. OBP, Vista, Aqua, etc.).

For a city with a top 10 global GDP, our real estate is still very cheap even in the hottest area (Grand Red stop is the high $/sqft). Honestly curious what small speck of the states (or world) would satisfy you if River North, walking distance from incredible examples, is not even livable.

Hello, guy with 9 posts.

First of all, River North is far from the “social epicenter” of Chicago. There isn’t much I can think of north of Illinois, beyond the part that’s basically the Greater Loop (with Bavette’s, Siena Tavern, etc). It’s certainly not trendy. And it’s definitely an ugly neighborhood.

I would rather trade quantity for quality. If Chicago had a bit less construction, maybe even half as much, but it was all of very high quality, the city would be better off in the long run. It is ridiculously cheap (relatively speaking) and there’s an enormous supply of affordable housing in Chicago anyway, and it’s basically limitless if you count potential infill in depressed neighborhoods.

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by 10023

Hello, guy with 9 posts.

First of all, River North is far from the “social epicenter” of Chicago. There isn’t much I can think of north of Illinois, beyond the part that’s basically the Greater Loop (with Bavette’s, Siena Tavern, etc). It’s certainly not trendy. And it’s definitely an ugly neighborhood.

It's the biggest concentration of bars and restaurants in the city easily. There's something frenetic and cool about having every inch of street frontage packed with bars, not just on one street but on every street and side street, sometimes with second floors and basements containing even more establishments. It's really a nightlife district that truly exists in three dimensions when most of Chicago's trendy spots are in one dimension along a corridor or less than one (e.g. one intersection with trendy stuff ala California/Augusta).

Most of the bars and restaurants themselves in River North, I could take or leave... but some are very, very good or even groundbreaking. Ramen-san, Il Porcellino, yes Siena Tavern and Bavette's, obviously Frontera/Topolobampo, etc. Foodies should not scoff at River North despite the many douchey bars.

[BuildThemTaller]

Originally Posted by ardecila

It's the biggest concentration of bars and restaurants in the city easily. There's something frenetic and cool about having every inch of street frontage packed with bars, not just on one street but on every street and side street, sometimes with second floors and basements containing even more establishments. It's really a nightlife district that truly exists in three dimensions when most of Chicago's trendy spots are in one dimension along a corridor or less than one (e.g. one intersection with trendy stuff ala California/Augusta).

Most of the bars and restaurants themselves in River North, I could take or leave... but some are very, very good or even groundbreaking. Ramen-san, Il Porcellino, yes Siena Tavern and Bavette's, obviously Frontera/Topolobampo, etc. Foodies should not scoff at River North despite the many douchey bars.

Strong agree. I lived in River North for 15 months and it completely changed my mind about the neighborhood. Yes, it has its warts. There are people from and outside the city constantly swarming the area to do all sorts of stuff that makes it smelly, inauthentic, and gross. But there is far more to River North than just tourist traps and chain restaurants. Don't knock it until you try it is all I am saying.

Same applies to Streeterville. Yes, some of it feels bland. But that neighborhood is starting to get some awesome stuff going on and I can imagine it will be a great place to live in about 10 years if it isn't already right now.

[petey2428]

Originally Posted by ardecila

It's the biggest concentration of bars and restaurants in the city easily. There's something frenetic and cool about having every inch of street frontage packed with bars, not just on one street but on every street and side street, sometimes with second floors and basements containing even more establishments. It's really a nightlife district that truly exists in three dimensions when most of Chicago's trendy spots are in one dimension along a corridor or less than one (e.g. one intersection with trendy stuff ala California/Augusta).

Most of the bars and restaurants themselves in River North, I could take or leave... but some are very, very good or even groundbreaking. Ramen-san, Il Porcellino, yes Siena Tavern and Bavette's, obviously Frontera/Topolobampo, etc. Foodies should not scoff at River North despite the many douchey bars.

I see where you're going.... until you quoted ramen-san as being "very, very good or even groundbreaking." Ramen-san is good enough, but it's nowehre near being the top ramen-places in Chicago. Hell, most ramen places in the suburbs are better than ramen-san. Ramen-san is very river north though. Take something ethnic and whitewash it to fit the type of sheltered crowd who's intimidated by ethnic food.

[harryc]

Originally Posted by 10023

Hello, guy with 9 posts.

First of all, River North is far from the “social epicenter” of Chicago. There isn’t much I can think of north of Illinois, beyond the part that’s basically the Greater Loop (with Bavette’s, Siena Tavern, etc). It’s certainly not trendy. And it’s definitely an ugly neighborhood.

I would rather trade quantity for quality. If Chicago had a bit less construction, maybe even half as much, but it was all of very high quality, the city would be better off in the long run. It is ridiculously cheap (relatively speaking) and there’s an enormous supply of affordable housing in Chicago anyway, and it’s basically limitless if you count potential infill in depressed neighborhoods.

The hood has changed in the last 5 years - dramatically . Literally velvet ropes with dudes checking lists to see who can get in to clubs some of which have zero street presence, some of which loudly burst across the sidewalk.

Visit around 2am some weekend night and see.

[KWillChicago]

Originally Posted by harryc

The hood has changed in the last 5 years - dramatically . Literally velvet ropes with dudes checking lists to see who can get in to clubs some of which have zero street presence, some of which loudly burst across the sidewalk.

Visit around 2am some weekend night and see.

Haha. Sienna room wouldnt let me and a girl in because I wasn't wearing a button up shirt. But instead a sweater that was most likely more expensive than the rest of the "shirts" in line. And yet, I was able to walk into Sixteen and Everest with a Metallica and STP shirt on because I was with a Ken Griffin group of people. Money walks the talk, apparently sweaters do not.

[Kumdogmillionaire]

Originally Posted by 10023

I’m not trying to read more into it either. Just aesthetics. I think River North has become a shockingly ugly neighborhood over the past 20 years (and one where I wouldn’t live), due to the infestation of both painted concrete and parking podiums.

Bro, River North was always Ugly... At least now it's a fun neighborhood and has people living in it who won't stab you for twenty bucks