Tivoli Theatre | ? | 22 fl | Planning

[TheRitsman]

According to what I've heard this has no timelines at all anymore. So I'm going to file this into my dead folder.

[matt602]

Just tonight I stumbled across a recent photo of the inside of the auditorium and I could definitely see some new water damage on a few of the walls. The hydro is still hooked up for now but apart from that, literally nothing else has changed. I wouldn't be surprised if the place slips back into abandonment, unless they sell to a more qualified developer (which could very well put the auditorium at risk of demolition)

[timach]

Originally Posted by matt602

Just tonight I stumbled across a recent photo of the inside of the auditorium and I could definitely see some new water damage on a few of the walls. The hydro is still hooked up for now but apart from that, literally nothing else has changed. I wouldn't be surprised if the place slips back into abandonment, unless they sell to a more qualified developer (which could very well put the auditorium at risk of demolition)

At this point let them demolish the whole thing. If a new devolpers wants to actually build here, let them build. Better than letting this place to sit vacant and rot

[TheRitsman]

Originally Posted by timach

At this point let them demolish the whole thing. If a new devolpers wants to actually build here, let them build. Better than letting this place to sit vacant and rot

I was at the Elgin theatre last night, and while the Tivoli is nowhere near the same level, it is sad that we just tear these down and never build anything of similar quality. We should try to preserve what we were able to save.

[matt602]

Originally Posted by timach

At this point let them demolish the whole thing. If a new devolpers wants to actually build here, let them build. Better than letting this place to sit vacant and rot

The Tivoli is literally the last theatre of it's era located within downtown and while there is water damage and mold, a restoration should be more than do-able. Buildings that were in far worse condition have been restored downtown (Lister Block, parts of the Royal Connaught, Victoria Hall/McKay building, probably most of the upper part of 10 James N). Recent restorations to the Westdale and Playhouse theatres prove there is obviously a business case for restoration versus demolition and the location of the Tivoli couldn't possibly be better for it, right in the centre of the most desirable part of downtown right now.

The problem is the current owners, not the structure. The fact that they had to resort to a "toonie drive" a decade ago proves that they were never really in the financial position to build a condo tower in the first place, let alone restore the existing auditorium.

[Pipedreams]

Originally Posted by matt602

The problem is the current owners, not the structure. The fact that they had to resort to a "toonie drive" a decade ago proves that they were never really in the financial position to build a condo tower in the first place, let alone restore the existing auditorium.

The classic problem with heritage buildings, everyone likes the idea of them being restored but very few people can afford to do so. So what we are left with is heritage buildings in ruin throughout the downtown with hopes that someday someone with deep pockets will sweep them up and restore them. Historic buildings are beautiful, and I agree with that they are preferable to generic new builds but unless we as a society are ready to pay for the costs of restoring them (either through taxation or only having unaffordable "luxury" condo's built on their grounds) then we have to allow for some of them to be replaced.

[Chronamut]

Originally Posted by Pipedreams

The classic problem with heritage buildings, everyone likes the idea of them being restored but very few people can afford to do so. So what we are left with is heritage buildings in ruin throughout the downtown with hopes that someday someone with deep pockets will sweep them up and restore them. Historic buildings are beautiful, and I agree with that they are preferable to generic new builds but unless we as a society are ready to pay for the costs of restoring them (either through taxation or only having unaffordable "luxury" condo's built on their grounds) then we have to allow for some of them to be replaced.

Nah. We just wait for liuna to restore them all

[thistleclub]

Originally Posted by matt602

The problem is the current owners, not the structure. The fact that they had to resort to a "toonie drive" a decade ago proves that they were never really in the financial position to build a condo tower in the first place, let alone restore the existing auditorium.

Two different owners (albeit somewhat related).

The Snidermans sold the half-demolished building to the Canadian Ballet Youth Ensemble, whose board president is Belma Diamanté. The building was initially supposed to be a multi-tenant performing arts centre but there’s no evidence that the group ever sought out the kind of capital grants or corporate donations that would have helped achieve that vision. There was press attention to the announcement of a $15m capital campaign in 2009 but no follow-up in the years following. In this light, the toonie drive appears to be nothing more than a modest off-books revenue stream.

After seven years of sitting on the site, the CBYE sold the building to Diamante Holdings (not to be confused with the unrelated Diamante Development Corp).

Diamante Holdings abbreviates to DH which seems fitting since it’s run by Domenic Diamante, Belma’s husband.

She at least appeared to appreciate the unsavoury optics. A Spec story at the time reported:

"[Board member Gary] Santucci said the deal has been in the works for two or three months. He said Gurdil-Diamante — the ballet's CEO — has recused herself from board discussions about the deal to avoid conflict of interest arising from being married to the purchaser."

[movingtohamilton]

Originally Posted by timach

At this point let them demolish the whole thing. If a new devolpers wants to actually build here, let them build. Better than letting this place to sit vacant and rot

Just one more example of what Hamilton specializes in. Demolition-by-neglect. It's a defeatist attitude, and should not be promoted imo.

[timach]

Originally Posted by movingtohamilton

Just one more example of what Hamilton specializes in. Demolition-by-neglect. It's a defeatist attitude, and should not be promoted imo.

Hey id like to see it restored. I just have no faith it'll happen

[Crapht]

Effort Trust should step up and partner with the owners or the city and demolish their plaza beside the Tivoli because it's disgusting. Restore the Tivoli and build the tower beside the theatre at the corner of Wilson and Hughson. The remaining property along James From CBC to Wilson should be a public space called Tivoli Square. That's my wish for the property.

[thistleclub]

Originally Posted by Crapht

Effort Trust should step up and partner with the owners or the city and demolish their plaza beside the Tivoli because it's disgusting. Restore the Tivoli and build the tower beside the theatre at the corner of Wilson and Hughson. The remaining property along James From CBC to Wilson should be a public space called Tivoli Square. That's my wish for the property.

Effort Trust is not about historical restoration or piazza development. They're about lending life support to fugly commercial properties and outdated residential.

Credit for building Centre Point Plaza goes to the late Jack Beume, survived by a real estate company that's like a scale model Effort Trust.

Centre Point Plaza occupies a land area around 80% that of the Tivoli lot, and it sits on two corners. My hunch is that its owners know what the property is worth, and it's exponentially more than the discount bin valuation assigned to the Tivoli transaction, even if they just take a page from the Diamante playbook and flip the holding.

[Crapht]

Originally Posted by thistleclub

Effort Trust is not about historical restoration or piazza development. They're about lending life support to fugly commercial properties and outdated residential.

Credit for building Centre Point Plaza goes to the late Jack Beume, survived by a real estate company that's like a scale model Effort Trust.

Centre Point Plaza occupies a land area around 80% that of the Tivoli lot, and it sits on two corners. My hunch is that its owners know what the property is worth, and it's exponentially more than the discount bin valuation assigned to the Tivoli transaction, even if they just take a page from the Diamante playbook and flip the holding.

Rain on my parade. I was only dreaming. I knew part of that story. It's unfortunate and should not be allowed to happen.

[realcity]

^ that's a good idea. Like Dundas Sq.

[Crapht]

Originally Posted by realcity

^ that's a good idea. Like Dundas Sq.

Kind of, but less flashy. Yonge-Dundas sq is too much. IMO

[hamilton23]

In my opinion, I'd be surprised if this gets built under current ownership.

The easiest, cheapest and probably the best thing for this building and for the area, would've been a complete restoration of the actual theatre and make it a theatre/film venue, similar to the Elgin in Toronto, Mirvish, etc.

Building Condos above a theatre never made any sense. Especially when you factor in sound restrictions and other factors in this case (extensive demolition, reconstruction, etc) That costs huge money.

[Chronamut]

Originally Posted by hamilton23

I'd be surprised if this gets built under current ownership.

The easiest, cheapest and probably the best thing for this building and for the area, would've been a complete restoration of the actual theatre and make it a theatre/film venue, similar to the Elgin in Toronto, Mirvish, etc.

Building Condos above a theatre never made any sense. Especially when you factor in sound restrictions and other factors in this case (extensive demolition, reconstruction, etc) That costs huge money.

Maybe your family should buy this property? Show us how it's done

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by hamilton23

In my opinion, I'd be surprised if this gets built under current ownership.

The easiest, cheapest and probably the best thing for this building and for the area, would've been a complete restoration of the actual theatre and make it a theatre/film venue, similar to the Elgin in Toronto, Mirvish, etc.

Building Condos above a theatre never made any sense. Especially when you factor in sound restrictions and other factors in this case (extensive demolition, reconstruction, etc) That costs huge money.

I thought the tower was going in front of the theatre, not atop it.

I'll be surprised too if this gets built by the current owners. But it would not surprise me to see another developer take over, much like what's happened with the Connolly.

It may even make sense for the condo and the theatre to be done by separate companies in partnership. The projects need not be tied together, in terms of their build, aside from the connecting parts.

[Chronamut]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

I thought the tower was going in front of the theatre, not atop it.

I'll be surprised too if this gets built by the current owners. But it would not surprise me to see another developer take over, much like what's happened with the Connolly.

It may even make sense for the condo and the theatre to be done by separate companies in partnership. The projects need not be tied together, in terms of their build, aside from the connecting parts.

The condo is being built in front.. or .. was being built in front..

[hamilton23]

Originally Posted by Chronamut

The condo is being built in front.. or .. was being built in front..

It's confusing lol